Dogs on beaches.

[Lord Braykewynde]

While away in the van we visited various north Devon towns doing my Then & Now pics. We decided to stop off in Bude and see if there was a beach which allowed dogs. We parked in the car park and I went to check the beach out. There was the sign, No Dogs Allowed from April 1st until October - Fine for not complying - £1000'
I couldn't believe my eyes to see at least three dogs, even running loose without leads.
My questions are what makes people like these idiots think they are above the law and who implements the law?
For those who are caught, if any, the fine should mean £1000 and not £50 for a first offece when they've probably been doing it for years.
No wonder we dog owners have a bad reputation when such ignorant people walk this earth

 

[Parksy]

The dog owners who ignore signs and allow their dogs to run on restricted beaches with or without leads are the same dog owners who allow their dogs to roam without leads anywhere that they want to no matter what rules or signage is in place to say that dogs must be on leads.
I mentioned the same thing in a discussion while you were on your jollies Lord B Click Here Post#18
It's surprising how many outwardly responsible dog owners who pick up after their well looked after dogs routinely ignore rules which state that dogs must be kept on leads.
We see it in parks, caravan sites, certified sites almost every time that we go anywhere, these people who consider themselves exempt from rules where their dogs are concerned. The same attitude applies where beaches which don't allow dogs are concerned, these people are the ones that non dog owners such as us invariably notice.

 

[oldagetraveller1]

Now, there's an idea! Ban dogs on camping and caravan sites April - October! Just like on the beaches. If local authorities see the sense in keeping dogs away, why not site operators? The more reasonable dog owners accept that others do let their animals foul sites and run loose - despite the rules. The trouble is that it's always someone else's dogs - never theirs. And if you do catch them red-handed, the verbal abuse you receive has to be experienced to be believed! Why, oh why are dog owners SO sensitive? You can insult their family, call them names, be thoroughly objectionable, and yet your average caravanner will keep his or her cool. BUT - complain about their dogs at your very real peril!

 

[Dustydog]

Now, there's an idea! Ban dogs on camping and caravan sites April - October! Just like on the beaches. If local authorities see the sense in keeping dogs away, why not site operators? The more reasonable dog owners accept that others do let their animals foul sites and run loose - despite the rules. The trouble is that it's always someone else's dogs - never theirs. And if you do catch them red-handed, the verbal abuse you receive has to be experienced to be believed! Why, oh why are dog owners SO sensitive? You can insult their family, call them names, be thoroughly objectionable, and yet your average caravanner will keep his or her cool. BUT - complain about their dogs at your very real peril!

Well it's simple. The dogs are the only women who listen to me in my family so I will not tolerate any nasty abuse of them. You can call me anything , no problem but please not the dogs.

SWMBO can be abused but be careful she is dangerous and doesn't take prsoners.
I suspect if you did ban dogs as suggested there would be loads of site vacancies

As for beaches , if it says no dogs then it's NO DOGS. Go up on the moors instead. I just wish a dog warden from the local council would fine these selfish idiots on the spot.
usual old issue in that the few selfish ones spoil it for the majority etc.

 

[oldagetraveller1]

Sadly, you're so right, Dustydog! I'm always saying that I really do like dogs - any animals for that matter. It's their incondsiderate owners who cause the problems. Most dog owners are thoughtful and abide by the rules, but the minority who don't play the game seem to be increasing - or is it me????????

 

[Dustydog]

No it's not you Oldagetraveller. Whilst away recently I can honestly say all the pet owners were very good. I don't want to categorise the real culprits because I'll get struck of here. I know who they are and sadly I doubt they read PC Mag or this forum.

 

[Parksy]

Site owners are highly unlikely to ban owners from bringing their dogs to sites because they would loose a lot of their revenue if they did.
Complaints to many site owners, especially on small or certified sites often go unheeded presumably because of this potential revenue loss.
There are some sites where dogs are not allowed or more commonly where they are restricted to one part of the site on larger caravan parks but these are few and far between.
The flouting of rules governing dogs is not restricted to one particular type of person, we've often seen outwardly respectable and indeed quite likeable people who seem to firmly believe that the rules about dogs being kept on leads does not apply to them or their dog.
Certified site rules invariably state that dogs must be kept on leads but every time that we've visited a certified site most if not all dog owners have completely ignored this rule.
When I've mentioned to these irresponsible owners that my o/h is nervous around dogs (with good reason after she was bitten and severly injured as a child) these dog owners airily brush aside any protest by telling us that their dog is friendly and 'wouldn't hurt a fly' whilst continuing to ignore the rules which they think clearly do not apply to them.
The situation then exists whereby WE as non dog owners have to alter or modify OUR behaviour to accomodate these selfish people and their dogs.

i think someone should arrange a doggie weekend with non dog owners are not allowed to come and ruin our dogs fun, i would rather have a dog owner next to me than screaming kids. keep caravaning and meeting lots of other dogs you will love it,

'Ruin our dogs fun' - it sums the inconsiderate attitude that I am writing about up really doesn't it?
This is why we tar almost all dog owners with the same brush.

 

[thursdays child]

I find the same problems, like, the dogs/kids/ general nuisances keep cropping up.What is frustrating is the fact that the rule breakers are not dealt with individually so the rest of us have to pay in some way. It is just like when Himself gives way to other drivers and they dont show their appreciation so everybody has to pay that day and wait!! These *free thinkers* need to be managed better and brought to book.It is too easy to implement an across the board embargo.The trouble is that the rule breakers are usually harder to negotiate with so they will still do just as they like and the majority will have their options limited again and again.Sometimes I feel as if we are the only people who play by the rules and we still get penalised by more and more restrictions.I am sorry to admit that we have family members who think their dogs are the exceptions to every rule because they are "only little".We have 2 Pomeranians (The Bears) but I am always aware that even though I adore them, not every body does and they are NEVER let to bother others.
Thursdays Child

 

[sheila_374397204]

I like dogs and in the past have owned them too, however, I was badly bitten in December 2009 by an Alsatian and since then am very wary (frightened even) of large dogs, particularly German Shepherd/Alsatian types. Although the site we are on (seasonal) states that dogs must be kept on leads at all times a new resident with two Alsatians (one three legged) allows the dogs to be lead free, he even throws the ball for them to run for/catch. This really bothers me because I am now very nervous around this type of dog but I don't like to cause trouble.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Personally if I was in that predicament Sheila I'd have a quiet word with the warden/owner and relay your fears to him. If it says dogs should be on leads nobody should be exempt. It's people like him that spoil it for us so I'd have no pity for him.

 

[Parksy]

I like dogs and in the past have owned them too, however, I was badly bitten in December 2009 by an Alsatian and since then am very wary (frightened even) of large dogs, particularly German Shepherd/Alsatian types. Although the site we are on (seasonal) states that dogs must be kept on leads at all times a new resident with two Alsatians (one three legged) allows the dogs to be lead free, he even throws the ball for them to run for/catch. This really bothers me because I am now very nervous around this type of dog but I don't like to cause trouble.

This is exactly the sort of thing that I wrote about earlier.
I love dogs, have partnered them almost all of my life since childhood ( I hesitate to use the word 'owned' because dogs have traits which sometimes challenge the sense of 'ownership' or of who owns who)

My o/h for deep rooted reasons is afraid of dogs, no ifs or buts. she is definitely scared of dogs.

Dog owners can see no harm in their trusty friend and companion so why shouldn't the dog be allowed his bit of fun and freedom when he's out with the caravan?
He's never growled or bitten anybody, the dog is great with kids and is 100% part of the family and trustworthy so let him off the lead for a run around because he won't hurt anybody.
It's no real problem to me but Herself takes refuge in the caravan come what may. Nothing that I can say or do will overcome her fears, I've made friends with off lead dogs, tickled their tummies or behind their ears but Herself remains firmly ensconced inside the caravan - and that's the way that it stays for the remainder of our stay.
Like Sheila, we never want to cause trouble or make a fuss but the fact remains that we, as non dog owners, have to make adjustments to our daily life to accommodate the majority of dog lovers who regularly and routinely ignore rules about loose dogs.

 

[Dustydog]

I like dogs and in the past have owned them too, however, I was badly bitten in December 2009 by an Alsatian and since then am very wary (frightened even) of large dogs, particularly German Shepherd/Alsatian types. Although the site we are on (seasonal) states that dogs must be kept on leads at all times a new resident with two Alsatians (one three legged) allows the dogs to be lead free, he even throws the ball for them to run for/catch. This really bothers me because I am now very nervous around this type of dog but I don't like to cause trouble.

This is exactly the sort of thing that I wrote about earlier.
I love dogs, have partnered them almost all of my life since childhood ( I hesitate to use the word 'owned' because dogs have traits which sometimes challenge the sense of 'ownership' or of who owns who)

My o/h for deep rooted reasons is afraid of dogs, no ifs or buts. she is definitely scared of dogs.

Dog owners can see no harm in their trusty friend and companion so why shouldn't the dog be allowed his bit of fun and freedom when he's out with the caravan?
He's never growled or bitten anybody, the dog is great with kids and is 100% part of the family and trustworthy so let him off the lead for a run around because he won't hurt anybody.
It's no real problem to me but Herself takes refuge in the caravan come what may. Nothing that I can say or do will overcome her fears, I've made friends with off lead dogs, tickled their tummies or behind their ears but Herself remains firmly ensconced inside the caravan - and that's the way that it stays for the remainder of our stay.
Like Sheila, we never want to cause trouble or make a fuss but the fact remains that we, as non dog owners, have to make adjustments to our daily life to accommodate the majority of dog lovers who regularly and routinely ignore rules about loose dogs.

Sheila & Parksy
I fully understand your positions here. Most dog owners like me are responsible but as usual the selfish idiots spoil it all.
The only solution is to name and shame on here, eg caravan & car type. If a Club site, tell the Warden and even write direct to the Club's HO detailing reg nos etc. Hopefully the Club will then formally write to the offender warning them to behave as directed.

If we all do nothing to sort out these few errant selfish swine I can see certain dog breeds being banned from club sites ( most unfair).
So the poor old GSD and SBT wil be the first target. (Waits for Lisa and Jo-Anne to bark)

I'd like to see all dog owners deposit say £100.00 with the Warden at the start of the holiday, sign a declaration that if the dog is ever let off the lead where it shouldn't be, the money will NOT be refunded,.
Draconian? Yes ,but something does need to be done to protect people like Sheila and Mrs Parksy and indeed me and my dogs who are angels

.

 

[Beehpee]

I am not a fan of dogs but each their own is my motto and if they don't bother me I haven't a problem, what people need to realise with dogs tho is when they say to a stranger, that's the owners not the dogs, when they say he doesn't bite what they really should be saying is the dog won't bite them, why would they as they are looked after and fed and loved, but the stranger is exactly that and any dog, large, small, well behaved or otherwise, whether an angel or not is a potential, and I stress the word potential risk to a stranger, if someone broke into your house you would expect your dog to protect you and the house, if someone were to attempt to attack you in some way then the same, if your dog sees the stranger as a threat real or not then they may well bite, this to me is why dogs should never be given an opportunity to bite however unlikely that might be, I am not advocating banning dogs but much the same as if people cause any other sort of nuisance on a camp site if they break the rules, they should be asked to leave, how many people whether a dog lover or otherwise would forgive the owner of the dog running around which then bit one of your kids or in my case my grandchildren? I was recently on a site where the warden pointed out to a dog owner that his dog needed to be kept on a lead and was given the reply oh my dogs fine he hates being on a lead, the warden in no uncertain terms told him it was not negotiable and was no lead no pitch, changing the subject just slightly I personally think it's actually a little cruel to take dogs to caravan sites, when away I see loads of dogs attached by a lead to a stake of some sort driven into the ground, if the dog were at home at least it would have the freedom to wander around the garden, I know that the subject of dogs is slightly touchy because of peoples love etc for their pets but I'm not so sure it's often in dogs best interests to be on a camp site but more to save the owners from making other arrangements while people are away. Beehpee

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I personally think it's actually a little cruel to take dogs to caravan sites, when away I see loads of dogs attached by a lead to a stake of some sort driven into the ground, if the dog were at home at least it would have the freedom to wander around the garden.
I'm not so sure it's often in dogs best interests to be on a camp site but more to save the owners from making other arrangements while people are away. Beehpee

I'm sorry Beehpee but it shows how very little you know about dogs which is understandable as you're not a dog lover and I don't mean that nastily.
It just goes to prove that responsible dog owners cannot win. If they are wandering around loose off the lead that is wrong and rightly so. If they are on a lead pegged outside on the pitch that is now wrong.

The reason we take ours away with us is because when we had them they became part of the family. Saving money with kennel fee's doesn't come into it. I would give up caravanning before I put them in a kennels.
Regarding your comment about at home and the freedom to wander the garden also doesn't hold true. Today it's about 23c and the kitchen, patio and conservatory doors are open. Our dogs have the freedom to roam but where are they? One is lay by my feet at the computer and the other is in her basket in the living room. If we go and sit outside the dogs will follow us. They will sniff around for a few minutes and then lie down near to wherever we are sat. When we go back inside they follow us. To say it's cruel is a little silly.

 

[ij.brooks]

We often go caravaning with our 6 year old King Charles Spainiel who has been brought up along side my 7 year old daughter, I think it is a good idea that some beaches prevent dog use during the summer periods, to help keep beaches clean from dog messs caused by selfish owners, some beaches with bans even have a small section to allow dogs to be exercised, however what about when horses foul the beaches or the public leave empty cans and bottle, I have even witnessed evidence of hard drug use of blue flag beaches, so think it is very unfair that descent dog owners should be stereo types as the same. What about when you camp and your dog is on a lead and children run up to your dog scaring them, is it any wonder that some dogs may seem agressive when they are affraid. I think every caravaner young and old, child or adult should be more aware of other caravaners/campers surroundings I relise that everyone of us lives by different rules in life and that is LIFE. Next people will be asking for a Criminal records check before booking onto sites, 3 points on your license then you can'nt stay here. Where does it stop?

 

[oldagetraveller1]

I agree with Beehpee - there certainly is an element of cruelty in taking dogs camping when the owners know full well that the dog must be kept tethered. It's a bit like caging birds or keeping animals in cages. A dog is no different - it's just another captive animal. It's instinct is to roam free. It's selfish to keep any animal under unnatural conditions just because it gives you pleasure. Free all captive animals, I say! And then there's the hygiene aspect. So many dogs on sites these days - sometimes 2 or 3 per unit. Even if some campers do pick up their pets' poo, there's bound to be a residue left. And what about when they pee as they pass your pitch? Are dog owners simply immune to the smell?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Gawd oldage traveller

As a dog owner, and although I've agreed with some of your anti dog comments, you have gone over the top on this one, almost to the point of being laughable

Are you on the wacky baccy or magic mushrooms?
I bet you're the type that holds food up to the light to see if there's any fluff on it

I'd hate to have your outlook. I'd miss all the nice walks through the woods in case I stepped in any wild animal muck or I couldn't sit on the grass incase any insect had pooed there

You say 'free all captive animals' ... LMAO From this comment you are obviously a vegan or extracting the urine. Even so how would you cope scraping cow muck off your front path from the roaming free cows

or going back to the bad old days when streets were full of dog muck and dogs humping. Feral cats all over the place caterwauling all night long with their smelly dumps all over your garden. Sorry old age traveller, I think you need to get back to the drawing board on your latest theory.
As my late father, who was a miner, used to tell me, you'll eat a ton of muck before you die.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I think it is a good idea that some beaches prevent dog use during the summer periods, to help keep beaches clean from dog messs caused by selfish owners, some beaches with bans even have a small section to allow dogs to be exercised, however what about when horses foul the beaches or the public leave empty cans and bottle,

I'm not sure if it happens but I would like to see a year round ban for dogs on some beaches.
A good point about horses. The site we've just visited had a river running along one side with dog walks both side of the river. There was still a bit of dog mess but this was mostly the locals and I witnessed one incident of a Rottie doing a pile whilst it's owner was striding out 200 yards in front. The other side of the site has a cycleway which we also used but this had heaps of hoss muck which cyclists had to negotiate as well as ourselves. This cycleway was tarmacced so the hoss muck didn't disappear fast like it would on a bridleway. Hardly anyone complains about that though.

 

[oldagetraveller1]

Let's get a couple of things straight, m'lord! I'm not vegan. I love animals, but I also eat them! I'm not anti-dog, just anti owners who don't/won't control them. It's never the animals' fault - it's a human failing. I admit to being anti-dog-on-campsites! I'm not a substance abuser unless you class the couple of glasses of '82 Grand Cru St Emilion I had with my steak this lunchtime as 'substance'. I think I'm very normal, but as you raise questions about that subject, I have to tell you that my wife tends to side with your camp! I tend not to argue with her, because she is just about to decant a fine bottle of '71 Chassangne Montrachet to go with tonight's lobster. I'm not fastidious in any way shape or form. According to my wine waiter (wife), I'm a mucky eater, I dress shabbily and I don't wash frequently enough. But then, she's holding in front of me a cut glass wine tumbler of nectar fit for the Gods - and the perfume from the lobster is intoxicating! Who the hell cares about dogs on camp sites!!

 

[RegandPat]

Pat and I have owned our dog for four months this being our first dog in our life (cat lovers) for 42 years.
Now we have both retired and invested in a caravan and our beloved Felix past away we decided on a dog thinking it would be good for us for excises, get us out every day, company, love and affection and to share our new life together in the van on trips out.
On our first week away with Harley (the dog) we could not believe how many people had dogs on site or before we did not notice this.
Second time was a disaster and we came home early, the couple opposite made remarks about Harley's barking and started shouting at him to shut up, we packed up that day.
In the four months we have had Harley we have met many people with and with out dogs that have complemented us on how well behaved he is, even the people next door who speaks little English gives him a cuddle.
I will be the first to admit we do not know how to train or look after a dog but we are getting there (I hope).
Pat and I have laughed and cry-ed over our mistakes (more tears than you can imaging), it is not easy and some times won't to throw it all in, then we remember that Harley spent more time in kennels than out plus two weeks roaming the streets of Southampton.
Yes he has hang ups and so do I., but we love the great big dollop.
If only my mum could be hear now and see me looking after a dog she would be so, well, can't have everything can we.
Oh and a bit about beaches, Harley loves water so his first visit to Teignmouth there is a small bit for dogs, he would not come out, I had to paddle in with shoe's and socks on to get him (must work on recall) or lern to swim.
In all the time we did not have a dog I always got on with them but I have always liked animals, just havent a clue how to look after them.
Reg

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Let's get a couple of things straight, m'lord! I'm not vegan. I love animals, but I also eat them! I'm not anti-dog, just anti owners who don't/won't control them. It's never the animals' fault - it's a human failing. I admit to being anti-dog-on-campsites! I'm not a substance abuser unless you class the couple of glasses of '82 Grand Cru St Emilion I had with my steak this lunchtime as 'substance'. I think I'm very normal, but as you raise questions about that subject, I have to tell you that my wife tends to side with your camp! I tend not to argue with her, because she is just about to decant a fine bottle of '71 Chassangne Montrachet to go with tonight's lobster. I'm not fastidious in any way shape or form. According to my wine waiter (wife), I'm a mucky eater, I dress shabbily and I don't wash frequently enough. But then, she's holding in front of me a cut glass wine tumbler of nectar fit for the Gods - and the perfume from the lobster is intoxicating! Who the hell cares about dogs on camp sites!!

Thank you for your excellent reply old age traveller. I didn't reply straight back because I would hate the thought of spoiling your meal by you getting indigestion

There are a couple of points I don't understand about your previous post though. Apologies if I mistook that you were muddle headed from waccy baccy but maybe the reason for your post was because you were in your cups through too much wine

You say you don't believe in cruelty yet there you are eating lobster. This is one of the most cruelest and inhumane ways known to man where chefs put a live lobster into boiling water . waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Not that I'm saying you do that of course

Again, what about the pain grapes feel when being crushed. If you don't believe me ask Prince Charles.
Now then, back to dogs ... heh! heh!
Dogs never did roam free. Dogs were bred from wolves tens of thousands of years ago and since have been dependant on us and thankfully are now better looked after than their forbears were. If other animals, such as cows and sheep, were allowed to roam free I'm afraid there would be no such thing as sheep and cows. They would no longer be able to earn their keep and would be hunted to extinction for food. The idea of a cow passing the gate and nipping out and milking it is good in theory but wouldn't work in practice ... heh! heh! heh!
Now be a good man and listen to your better half else you'll have to do your own cooking and decant your own wine.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Pat and I have owned our dog for four months.
Yes he has hang ups and so do I., but we love the great big dollop.

We don't own dogs Reg, they own us

As long as he receives love and affection that is the main thing. At least he's no longer roaming the streets wet, cold and hungry.

 

[thursdays child]

Oh my goodness where do some people actually stay with their caravans? It must be some very different places to where we go because we see rabbits,chickens, foxes ,rats,farm dogs.cats etc,etc,etc and I cannot believe these natural country inhabitants carry bags and bottles of disinfectant around with them to remove any odours they may leave behind.Yes,yes and yes we dog owmers have a responsibilety to stop our pets from causing annoyance to others but I have to confess that just very occassionally one of The Bears will have an accident on site and we do our very best to sanitise and clean up. I am sure that those of us who have or have had toddlers also have had situations where they have not been able to wait and here and now has to do.As for the cruelty concerns, as long as dogs are exercised adequately and given enough room it is not a problem, it is no different to putting a small child in a palypen for short periods.It is called keeping them safe.
I hearby now publicly apologise to anyone past,present or future who is in ANY way offended by my Pomeranians and they are very welcome to make any reasonable suggestions as to how we can improve on our dog owning practices in person on site.
Of course we see dogs loose on site too but as long as ours are left alone it is not a problem to us but I do urge site owners to implement the rules and this removes the need for arguments and unpleasant atmosphere between campers. After all the site owners accept the rules so they should apply them. It was a loose staffie that ended up hanging from my 1.8kg Poms tail that has made her so paranoid about strange dos now and I was badly scratched at the same time trying to protect her.No apology either!!! My other Pom was frightened by small children banging on the awning to make her bark but kids will be kids so I that is just the way it is.No man is an island and neither is a caravan!!!
Thursdays Child

 

[Dustydog]

Oh my goodness where do some people actually stay with their caravans? It must be some very different places to where we go because we see rabbits,chickens, foxes ,rats,farm dogs.cats etc,etc,etc and I cannot believe these natural country inhabitants carry bags and bottles of disinfectant around with them to remove any odours they may leave behind.Yes,yes and yes we dog owmers have a responsibilety to stop our pets from causing annoyance to others but I have to confess that just very occassionally one of The Bears will have an accident on site and we do our very best to sanitise and clean up. I am sure that those of us who have or have had toddlers also have had situations where they have not been able to wait and here and now has to do.As for the cruelty concerns, as long as dogs are exercised adequately and given enough room it is not a problem, it is no different to putting a small child in a palypen for short periods.It is called keeping them safe.
I hearby now publicly apologise to anyone past,present or future who is in ANY way offended by my Pomeranians and they are very welcome to make any reasonable suggestions as to how we can improve on our dog owning practices in person on site.
Of course we see dogs loose on site too but as long as ours are left alone it is not a problem to us but I do urge site owners to implement the rules and this removes the need for arguments and unpleasant atmosphere between campers. After all the site owners accept the rules so they should apply them. It was a loose staffie that ended up hanging from my 1.8kg Poms tail that has made her so paranoid about strange dos now and I was badly scratched at the same time trying to protect her.No apology either!!! My other Pom was frightened by small children banging on the awning to make her bark but kids will be kids so I that is just the way it is.No man is an island and neither is a caravan!!!
Thursdays Child

Exquisitly poetic TC. As I'm a dog may I please add me and the Springers and join you in the same public apology

BTW, how's the hip?