Surprised at lack of comment on caravan industry economic issues.

[Ian Law]

I see in Practical Caravan that Swift had losses, in particular its touring caravan sales. In parallel Knaus and Trigano touring caravan sales are down. The post Covid surge in sales is over, so I wonder where touring caravan sales go from here. I notice that my grand children and their friends like going on holiday but extensively use AirBNB for short notice breaks and favour odd ball accommodations, or camping sites. Even things like going to Prague for a music event where the ticket prices are much lower than UK, such that with a budget flight, hotels etc the total cost for a couple of nights away is on a par with just going to a venue in UK with a single night accommodation. Campervans seem to be something they would aspire to, but even one of those is low in their needs given the purchase costs and other demands on their incomes.

It will be interesting to see how caravanning progresses in the future and what the makers actions will be.

Swift posts pre-tax loss as caravan sales show no sign of "immediate return" to previous demand - Practical Caravan

Swift has said the pre-tax loss was the result of a number of factors, including economic uncertainty and the end of the post-pandemic surge.

www.practicalcaravan.com

A friend who works at our local dealer says sales are almost 25% down and they have had to make significant redundancies affecting customer services. Caravaning is an expensive way to go on holiday these days, a new van is £20 to £30k minimum , in my case it costs £100 a month for my old van just to go nowhere for insurance, storage fees and an annual service. That pays for a holiday in itself. Site fees are going ever upwards. But I recognise we get what we pay for. I was delighted at the Coniston Park Coppice site this year to find TV hook ups on every pitch, amazing. Then at Burton Constable they excelled themselves with two EV chargers so my wife could recharge our disabled sons EV when she arrived.

 

[AndrewAventura]

The Gov Office for National Statistics maintain an inflation index for Camper vans, caravans and trailers (CPI INDEX 09.2.1.1), benchmarked to 100 in 2015. It's presently standing at 119, meaning that average prices are 19% higher than they were 10 years ago.

Over the same period, the overall Consumer Price Index (CPIH) has grown from 100 to 138. That suggests that the price of caravans has climbed half as fast as the overall total of things people spend their money on, or you might say that in real terms caravans are 14% cheaper now than they were 10 years ago. If you're in the business of making and selling caravans, that's a tough environment in which to make a profit.

 

[Buckman]

Between storage fees, insurance, servicing, consuming more fuel and a bigger vehicle, it all adds up significantly especially when you take into consideration the depreciation of the caravan. We enjoyed the freedom that we had with our caravan and visited many great spots. Some more memorable than others.

However after selling the caravan earlier this year we looked at cottage rental and it was nice to off load the car and move into a fully equipped household with all the amenities. Just as relaxing as using the caravan, but probably cheaper.

 

[RogerL]

Every family's cost comparison is different, with widely differing conclusions - in our case we have no storage costs as we keep at home, depreciation and insurance are low because we keep our caravans for long periods, we'd use a big vehicle even if we weren't towing - and being retired we can go away for several weeks at a time which mitigates the extra fuel used when towing - so for the same amount of time away caravanning is cheaper for us than cheap hotels or cheap self-catering.

 

[JTQ]

We don't caravan because its cheaper than other options, simply we do it as we like doing so. Plus, increasingly importantly now as we age and our activities are more limited for the friends we meet and can keep in contact with that way.

I don't think I ever kidded myself it was a "cheap option" , but fortunately for both of us our way preferred choice of using rallies and 5 van sites means the site fees themselves don't hurt too much.

 

[Dustydog]

A 6 berth large new log cabin at Carnon Downs cost my sister £1900 for 2 weeks. My FSP same site was £600.

Our fuel burn for the whole trip wasn't very much more.

We keep our cars and caravans a long time. Car now 9 caravan 17!
Neither owe us a penny. Just the usual service etc
So for us caravanning is still a very cheap flexible holiday/ hobby.

Apart from longer hols we also do regular short breaks , 2 hours or less. Mostly within 100 miles of home.
Amazing what lovely places there are not far from our own home .

 

[otherclive]

For us selling the caravan wasn’t a cost issue it was because our freedom to use it was restricted due to our commitment to supporting family members here and in the Midlands. We had stopped caravanning in 2014and sold everything, when circumstances seemed to improve we restarted again in 2017. But the days of just packing up and heading off didn’t really materialise, but it was the right decision for us to part with the van, and our various family commitments have reduced considerably. Do we miss the caravan; certainly as we had really good times. Now we go for self catering or serviced accommodation, mainly dog friendly, although in September we are in a nice hotel in Wales without the dog who has an All inclusive break from us. 😂

 

[woodsieboy]

Ah familiy commitments ! After many years caravanning we are planning a trip next year to France with 6 adults 3 children under 10 and an 18 month old, what could possibly go wrong?
The childrens parents all enjoyed caravanning when they were younger but the logistics indicate that 3 mobile homes/statics will be needed on a full amenity site with pool, bar , kids club etc.
Obviously we don't need to pay for the caravan on the ferry, but the overall price is still signifucant,compared with just the 2 of us going in the caravan this year.

 

[Buckman]

For us it was not really a case of being cheaper as we only found that out after selling the caravan. Our main reason for selling the caravan was due to physical limitations. We did think of going seasonal, but that is certainly not a cheap option and you are stuck on one site. Also seemed a rather boring option, but the dogs would have enjoyed it.

 

[otherclive]

The recommendation is not to charge above 80% unless you need to. The specific recommendation is not to leave the battery at high states of charge for extended periods of time.

From the Volvo web site




Because there is absolutely no constraint on using all 100% of the battery. It's a totally valid thing to do. especially if charged from home before a long trip.

By far and away the biggest reason not to charge beyond 80% is the charging curve. I.e. it just takes much longer.

No - they are no different with their chargers, but have different software and rules in their cars being more or less aggressive with their use of the battery. In any Tesla made after about 2022, they use LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries, which have a longer life, more stable chemistry, and contain no Cobalt, than LiMnCo (Lithium Manganese Cobalt), but has a lower energy density and lower charge speed. The bigger Volvo battery is LiMnCo, the smaller is LiFePo4.

Here’s an article from Autocar on the four year life of a 100000 mile VW ID3. Miniscule reduction in range and ability to be comprehensively monitored too.

How long do EV batteries really last? After 100,000 miles, Germany's AA has the answer… | Autocar

Four-year-old ID 3 lost 9% of its battery capacity, but this was offset by efficiency-boosting software updates

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

Here’s an article from Autocar on the four year life of a 100000 mile VW ID3. Miniscule reduction in range and ability to be comprehensively monitored too.

How long do EV batteries really last? After 100,000 miles, Germany's AA has the answer… | Autocar

Four-year-old ID 3 lost 9% of its battery capacity, but this was offset by efficiency-boosting software updates

www.autocar.co.uk

Do Volvo and VW use the same battery manufacturer?

VW say the same as Volvo on charging.
“Volkswagen recommends charging up to 80% for everyday driving and recharging at 20%”.
All part of their CYA policy😉

All sounds very promising. Be interesting to see the results after 8 years at 200k miles🤪

 

[otherclive]

Do Volvo and VW use the same battery manufacturer?

VW say the same as Volvo on charging.
“Volkswagen recommends charging up to 80% for everyday driving and recharging at 20%”.
All part of their CYA policy😉

All sounds very promising. Be interesting to see the results after 8 years at 200k miles🤪

No idea wrt Volvo and VW batteries. But the 20-80% advice is pretty widespread and aligns with what Tobes has consistently said, with the option to go to 100% or down below 20% if a journey requires it, but not to keep the battery at 100% for periods.

 

[JTQ]

Do Volvo and VW use the same battery manufacturer?

VW say the same as Volvo on charging.
“Volkswagen recommends charging up to 80% for everyday driving and recharging at 20%”.
All part of their CYA policy😉

All sounds very promising. Be interesting to see the results after 8 years at 200k miles🤪

Same user guidance we got for our ebike 9 years ago.

 

[Dustydog]

More Fred Drift.
JLR announced this morning 500 jobs are being scrapped.
Poor economic times?
USA tariffs ?
Very poor adverts?
Poor products?

Not just the caravan industry !

 

[Buckman]

More Fred Drift.
JLR announced this morning 500 jobs are being scrapped.
Poor economic times?
USA tariffs ?
Very poor adverts?
Poor products?

Not just the caravan industry !

Not surprised as they no longer sell Jags with growling car instead opting to suspend sales for two years for a ridiculous looking noddy car.

 

[RogerL]

Not surprised as they no longer sell Jags with growling car instead opting to suspend sales for two years for a ridiculous looking noddy car.

They're still selling, or trying to sell, cars from stock having ended production last year - they're now rebuilding their factory for EVs and repositioning the brand to compete with Rolls-Royce and Bentley.

It's a huge gamble and time will tell whether it's a spectactular success or oblivion - there's no in between!

 

[Hutch]

This is one of the Jaguar types aimed at competing with the big flashy types,
Lots of interest.

 

[otherclive]

Not surprised as they no longer sell Jags with growling car instead opting to suspend sales for two years for a ridiculous looking noddy car.

Certainly the Jaguar advert was a disaster but in truth they weren’t selling many new Jaguars. Defender seems to be taking off, and Range Rover affected by tariffs and sales downturn especially in China. The car tariff set at 100000 UK cars is less than JLR would sell in US so I guess they are trimming back in anticipation of its effect and others too.

Expect redundancies or closures in the bio ethanol industry as the recent trade agreement allows US imports into UK at a level that virtually exceeds domestic production. If our producers close there would also be a negative effect on farmers too.

Say nothing wrt steel 🙁

 

[RogerL]

This is one of the Jaguar types aimed at competing with the big flashy types,
Lots of interest.
View attachment 9289

Lots of comment - mostly derogatory - but in most cases from people without the cash to buy one.

Personally, I think it looks hideous - but then I think the Bentley EV concept looks hideous too, and I'm a long-time fan of Bentleys.

Bentley News 2025 : EXP 15 design vision concept: A story reimagined for the future

Bentley Motors presents its latest luxury vision concept inside its brand-new design studio, which also officially opens its doors for the first time this week. EXP 15 represents Bentley’s design vision for the future, by taking inspiration from its early 20th century Grand Tourer heritage and...

www.bentleymedia.com

 

[Dustydog]

This is one of the Jaguar types aimed at competing with the big flashy types,
Lots of interest.
View attachment 9289

Looks like a Lady Penelope car😛

 

[Beachball]

For us it was not really a case of being cheaper as we only found that out after selling the caravan. Our main reason for selling the caravan was due to physical limitations. We did think of going seasonal, but that is certainly not a cheap option and you are stuck on one site. Also seemed a rather boring option, but the dogs would have enjoyed it.

Actually I don"t find our latest seasonal site boring I have two fishing lakes that are free or I could try my hand at golf and bar & restaurant, this is adjacent to the park