Domestic Air-Sourced Heating

[otherclive]

We had a Combi Boiler put in with the latest radiators and TRVs in our bungalow it meets our needs

We had a combi condensing boiler installed in our daughters house but it is upstairs at the front and her sink is downstairs at the back. So in her kitchen renewal we are having one of these hot tap thingies that keeps about 2.5 litres of hot water ready for immediate use at tea making temperature. So it will fill a bowl of washing up pots too.

 

[Beachball]

We had a combi condensing boiler installed in our daughters house but it is upstairs at the front and her sink is downstairs at the back. So in her kitchen renewal we are having one of these hot tap thingies that keeps about 2.5 litres of hot water ready for immediate use at tea making temperature. So it will fill a bowl of washing up pots too.

otherclive hope the plans are successful for your daughters house and meets her needs

 

[Sam Vimes]

Still at 19 deg c. No heating since last night but hood solar at present warming the outside walls. 😀

OC.... Just out of interest what was your overnight outside air temperature?

 

[Dustydog]

I’ve screen dumped this article from today’s DT. I think you are spot on Prof. Time will tell but maybe as technology improves this type of heating may become the norm. The current question is at what cost both financially and noise pollution plus high installation costs.
I suspect Hydrogen boilers will be the winner, but when?
How homes must adapt to go green and still stay warm
The Government has ambitious targets but the reality will be costly adjustments for consumers

Emma Gatten, Environment Editor

When the Government unveiled its ambition to reach net zero by 2050, the public will have understood that changes to their lifestyle would be needed.
However, people will not accept cold homes or more expensive bills as the price of going green, experts have warned. “Citizens have a veto on net zero. If you get enough of a backlash about something, then the politicians will quite rightly step away from that,” said Guy Newey, an adviser to Amber Rudd during her time as business and energy secretary. “If people can’t get their homes to the level they want, they’re going to be pretty angry – quite rightly so.”

The cost of staying cosy
Average installation costs
1. Hydrogen-ready boiler – £3,000
2. EV charger – £350-£1,000
3. Loft insulation – £440-£740
4. Internal wall insulation – £7,000
5. External wall insulation – £8,500
6. – Cavity wall insulation £600-£2,400
7. Underfloor heating – £4,400
8. Air-source heat pump – £7,000+
9. Air-source heat pump – £9,000
Heat pumps
The Government wants heat pumps to replace gas boilers, but they are bigger and noisier, and other changes to homes are needed to ensure they do not leave inhabitants cold.
Experts say heat pumps can warm homes to a comfortable level, provided the right system is installed, and can bring benefits by reducing the flow of indoor air pollution by maintaining a low level of heat.
“[A heat pump] is a low temperature heat system. It’s an advantage, but can be seen as a disadvantage,” said Nathan Gambling, a consultant specialising in training heating engineers.
How heat pumps work

1. An outdoor unit takes in heat from the ambient air and transfers it to a coolant.
2. A compressor increases the temperature of the coolant further.
3. The coolant transfers the heat to a hot water reserve tank via a heat exchanger
4. Hot water from the tank is circulated to radiators and water supplies in the house.
5. Cold water from radiators is returned to the tank
6. The coolant is cooled by the water and transferred back to the outdoor unit to be heated again.
“Ideally all our heat systems in our home should be low temperature, for a number of reasons. Low temperature is a healthier form of heating.”
But he warned that heating engineers lack the expertise to ensure people had the right system installed when they made the swap.
And information for those wishing to go green in their homes can be hard to come by. “Right now, if you want to switch to a low-carbon heating, you’ve got to go on some kind of grand journey of discovery. You need to become a project manager or a building physicist,” said Mr Newey.
“It’s quite an invasive process in your home,” said Darren Jones MP, the chair of the Commons business and energy committee.
“And, because the market is not fully mature yet, the cost of installing is very high. You’re looking at 10 to 15k, plus invasive work in your home.
‘Architects historically haven’t given thought to the heating. So that mindset is going to have to change’
“Government, energy suppliers – they’re not really talking to customers about this, or explaining that something significant is going to have to change.”
Heat pumps are also a bigger and noisier option than a gas boiler, which could prove an issue when installed on a large scale. “Architects historically haven’t given any sort of thought to the heating. We’re given a kitchen cupboard for your boiler. So that mindset is going to have to change,” said Mr Gambling.
“We haven’t really got to that point in the uptake where we know whether that’s an intrusion on people’s comfort,” he added. “They’re not as noisy as some people think, but then again, noise is quite subjective.”
Energy efficient homes
It’s not just heat pumps that mean homeowners might need to make costly adjustments.
The Government wants the majority of homes to be EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector. That means retrofitting measures in the two thirds of homes that are currently EPC D or below. Measures might include double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating. Energy efficiency could be linked to lower mortgage rates, or higher loans to cover improvement measures.
However, the Government has scrapped after just six months its flagship £1.5 billion Green Homes Grant scheme, which gave homeowners up to £5,000, or £10,000 for low-income households, towards the cost of insulation and installing low-carbon heating.
Hydrogen boilers
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a much less intrusive option compared with heat pumps, costing around the same as a gas boiler.
But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be and on what scale. When it is, it is likely to be only in certain areas, meaning investing in a hydrogen-ready boiler now could feel like a waste of money down the line.
It is also going to require some retrofitting of pipes to make them safe to carry the hydrogen.
Electric charging points
Accommodating electric cars will mean homeowners need a charger and will face increased energy bills.
New petrol and diesel cars will be banned from sale from 2030, and the Climate Change Committee wants 64 per cent of all cars on the road to be electric by 2032. Installing a charger at home can cost up to £1,000 to install, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.
Electricity bills will increase with daily charging (though still cheaper than fuel costs), making shopping around for the best tariff crucial. Many supply electricity at significantly cheaper off-peak prices which can be utilised if it has smart features. Some can even be linked to the renewable energy supply in your home, such as solar panels, and can sell your excess electricity back to the grid.
But with many deals available online, there is a potential for those without digital access to be left behind, warns Dhara Vyas, the head of Future Energy Services at Citizens Advice.
For those without off-street parking, trailing cables across pavements is technically illegal. Trials are under way in Oxford to dig trenches to stretch the cables from your home to the roadside.
A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said: “The UK has a strong track record in improving the energy performance of its homes, with 40 per cent now rated EPC band C – up from just 9 per cent in 2008.
“We are committed to going further and faster, and are investing £9 billion in improving the energy efficiency of our buildings, while creating hundreds of thousands of skilled green jobs.”
Green house How your home will need to change

Retrofit your home to make it more energy efficient
To reach the Government’s target of the majority of homes rated as EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector, changes will be needed including double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating.
For a semi-detached home, the CCC predicts costs of £8,590 for external wall insulation, up to £2,480 for cavity wall insulation and £740 for loft insulation.
Get a heat pump
Gas boilers in new homes will be banned from 2025, and by 2050, all homes should be using a low-carbon alternative.
Heat pumps, whether air or ground-sourced, are likely to be the most popular alternative.
Right now, the cost of installing them can range from £4,000 to £13,000, but you can get quarterly payments over seven years under the Government’s Renewable Heat Incentive which will effectively cover much of the cost.
To get a heat pump working optimally, you may need to install bigger radiators, underfloor heating and other insulation, which could prove disruptive.
Get a hydrogen boiler
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a less intrusive and cheaper option than a heat pump. But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be.
Install an EV charger
If you have an electric or a hybrid car, installing a charger at home could cost up to £1,000, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.


Sent from my iPad

 

[JezzerB]

We'll be sticking to oil i think much as I hate it for its environment damage.

 

[Buckman]

During the day we hardly notice the heat pump, but at night it is loud.

 

[Beachball]

I be sticking to gas it suits our needs.

 

[otherclive]

I’ve screen dumped this article from today’s DT. I think you are spot on Prof. Time will tell but maybe as technology improves this type of heating may become the norm. The current question is at what cost both financially and noise pollution plus high installation costs.
I suspect Hydrogen boilers will be the winner, but when?
How homes must adapt to go green and still stay warm
The Government has ambitious targets but the reality will be costly adjustments for consumers

Emma Gatten, Environment Editor
View attachment 1370
When the Government unveiled its ambition to reach net zero by 2050, the public will have understood that changes to their lifestyle would be needed.
However, people will not accept cold homes or more expensive bills as the price of going green, experts have warned. “Citizens have a veto on net zero. If you get enough of a backlash about something, then the politicians will quite rightly step away from that,” said Guy Newey, an adviser to Amber Rudd during her time as business and energy secretary. “If people can’t get their homes to the level they want, they’re going to be pretty angry – quite rightly so.”
View attachment 1372
The cost of staying cosy
Average installation costs
1. Hydrogen-ready boiler – £3,000
2. EV charger – £350-£1,000
3. Loft insulation – £440-£740
4. Internal wall insulation – £7,000
5. External wall insulation – £8,500
6. – Cavity wall insulation £600-£2,400
7. Underfloor heating – £4,400
8. Air-source heat pump – £7,000+
9. Air-source heat pump – £9,000
Heat pumps
The Government wants heat pumps to replace gas boilers, but they are bigger and noisier, and other changes to homes are needed to ensure they do not leave inhabitants cold.
Experts say heat pumps can warm homes to a comfortable level, provided the right system is installed, and can bring benefits by reducing the flow of indoor air pollution by maintaining a low level of heat.
“[A heat pump] is a low temperature heat system. It’s an advantage, but can be seen as a disadvantage,” said Nathan Gambling, a consultant specialising in training heating engineers.
How heat pumps work
View attachment 1371
1. An outdoor unit takes in heat from the ambient air and transfers it to a coolant.
2. A compressor increases the temperature of the coolant further.
3. The coolant transfers the heat to a hot water reserve tank via a heat exchanger
4. Hot water from the tank is circulated to radiators and water supplies in the house.
5. Cold water from radiators is returned to the tank
6. The coolant is cooled by the water and transferred back to the outdoor unit to be heated again.
“Ideally all our heat systems in our home should be low temperature, for a number of reasons. Low temperature is a healthier form of heating.”
But he warned that heating engineers lack the expertise to ensure people had the right system installed when they made the swap.
And information for those wishing to go green in their homes can be hard to come by. “Right now, if you want to switch to a low-carbon heating, you’ve got to go on some kind of grand journey of discovery. You need to become a project manager or a building physicist,” said Mr Newey.
“It’s quite an invasive process in your home,” said Darren Jones MP, the chair of the Commons business and energy committee.
“And, because the market is not fully mature yet, the cost of installing is very high. You’re looking at 10 to 15k, plus invasive work in your home.
‘Architects historically haven’t given thought to the heating. So that mindset is going to have to change’
“Government, energy suppliers – they’re not really talking to customers about this, or explaining that something significant is going to have to change.”
Heat pumps are also a bigger and noisier option than a gas boiler, which could prove an issue when installed on a large scale. “Architects historically haven’t given any sort of thought to the heating. We’re given a kitchen cupboard for your boiler. So that mindset is going to have to change,” said Mr Gambling.
“We haven’t really got to that point in the uptake where we know whether that’s an intrusion on people’s comfort,” he added. “They’re not as noisy as some people think, but then again, noise is quite subjective.”
Energy efficient homes
It’s not just heat pumps that mean homeowners might need to make costly adjustments.
The Government wants the majority of homes to be EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector. That means retrofitting measures in the two thirds of homes that are currently EPC D or below. Measures might include double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating. Energy efficiency could be linked to lower mortgage rates, or higher loans to cover improvement measures.
However, the Government has scrapped after just six months its flagship £1.5 billion Green Homes Grant scheme, which gave homeowners up to £5,000, or £10,000 for low-income households, towards the cost of insulation and installing low-carbon heating.
Hydrogen boilers
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a much less intrusive option compared with heat pumps, costing around the same as a gas boiler.
But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be and on what scale. When it is, it is likely to be only in certain areas, meaning investing in a hydrogen-ready boiler now could feel like a waste of money down the line.
It is also going to require some retrofitting of pipes to make them safe to carry the hydrogen.
Electric charging points
Accommodating electric cars will mean homeowners need a charger and will face increased energy bills.
New petrol and diesel cars will be banned from sale from 2030, and the Climate Change Committee wants 64 per cent of all cars on the road to be electric by 2032. Installing a charger at home can cost up to £1,000 to install, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.
Electricity bills will increase with daily charging (though still cheaper than fuel costs), making shopping around for the best tariff crucial. Many supply electricity at significantly cheaper off-peak prices which can be utilised if it has smart features. Some can even be linked to the renewable energy supply in your home, such as solar panels, and can sell your excess electricity back to the grid.
But with many deals available online, there is a potential for those without digital access to be left behind, warns Dhara Vyas, the head of Future Energy Services at Citizens Advice.
For those without off-street parking, trailing cables across pavements is technically illegal. Trials are under way in Oxford to dig trenches to stretch the cables from your home to the roadside.
A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said: “The UK has a strong track record in improving the energy performance of its homes, with 40 per cent now rated EPC band C – up from just 9 per cent in 2008.
“We are committed to going further and faster, and are investing £9 billion in improving the energy efficiency of our buildings, while creating hundreds of thousands of skilled green jobs.”
Green house How your home will need to change

Retrofit your home to make it more energy efficient
To reach the Government’s target of the majority of homes rated as EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector, changes will be needed including double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating.
For a semi-detached home, the CCC predicts costs of £8,590 for external wall insulation, up to £2,480 for cavity wall insulation and £740 for loft insulation.
Get a heat pump
Gas boilers in new homes will be banned from 2025, and by 2050, all homes should be using a low-carbon alternative.
Heat pumps, whether air or ground-sourced, are likely to be the most popular alternative.
Right now, the cost of installing them can range from £4,000 to £13,000, but you can get quarterly payments over seven years under the Government’s Renewable Heat Incentive which will effectively cover much of the cost.
To get a heat pump working optimally, you may need to install bigger radiators, underfloor heating and other insulation, which could prove disruptive.
Get a hydrogen boiler
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a less intrusive and cheaper option than a heat pump. But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be.
Install an EV charger
If you have an electric or a hybrid car, installing a charger at home could cost up to £1,000, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.


Sent from my iPad

I’ve screen dumped this article from today’s DT. I think you are spot on Prof. Time will tell but maybe as technology improves this type of heating may become the norm. The current question is at what cost both financially and noise pollution plus high installation costs.
I suspect Hydrogen boilers will be the winner, but when?
How homes must adapt to go green and still stay warm
The Government has ambitious targets but the reality will be costly adjustments for consumers

Emma Gatten, Environment Editor
View attachment 1370
When the Government unveiled its ambition to reach net zero by 2050, the public will have understood that changes to their lifestyle would be needed.
However, people will not accept cold homes or more expensive bills as the price of going green, experts have warned. “Citizens have a veto on net zero. If you get enough of a backlash about something, then the politicians will quite rightly step away from that,” said Guy Newey, an adviser to Amber Rudd during her time as business and energy secretary. “If people can’t get their homes to the level they want, they’re going to be pretty angry – quite rightly so.”
View attachment 1372
The cost of staying cosy
Average installation costs
1. Hydrogen-ready boiler – £3,000
2. EV charger – £350-£1,000
3. Loft insulation – £440-£740
4. Internal wall insulation – £7,000
5. External wall insulation – £8,500
6. – Cavity wall insulation £600-£2,400
7. Underfloor heating – £4,400
8. Air-source heat pump – £7,000+
9. Air-source heat pump – £9,000
Heat pumps
The Government wants heat pumps to replace gas boilers, but they are bigger and noisier, and other changes to homes are needed to ensure they do not leave inhabitants cold.
Experts say heat pumps can warm homes to a comfortable level, provided the right system is installed, and can bring benefits by reducing the flow of indoor air pollution by maintaining a low level of heat.
“[A heat pump] is a low temperature heat system. It’s an advantage, but can be seen as a disadvantage,” said Nathan Gambling, a consultant specialising in training heating engineers.
How heat pumps work
View attachment 1371
1. An outdoor unit takes in heat from the ambient air and transfers it to a coolant.
2. A compressor increases the temperature of the coolant further.
3. The coolant transfers the heat to a hot water reserve tank via a heat exchanger
4. Hot water from the tank is circulated to radiators and water supplies in the house.
5. Cold water from radiators is returned to the tank
6. The coolant is cooled by the water and transferred back to the outdoor unit to be heated again.
“Ideally all our heat systems in our home should be low temperature, for a number of reasons. Low temperature is a healthier form of heating.”
But he warned that heating engineers lack the expertise to ensure people had the right system installed when they made the swap.
And information for those wishing to go green in their homes can be hard to come by. “Right now, if you want to switch to a low-carbon heating, you’ve got to go on some kind of grand journey of discovery. You need to become a project manager or a building physicist,” said Mr Newey.
“It’s quite an invasive process in your home,” said Darren Jones MP, the chair of the Commons business and energy committee.
“And, because the market is not fully mature yet, the cost of installing is very high. You’re looking at 10 to 15k, plus invasive work in your home.
‘Architects historically haven’t given thought to the heating. So that mindset is going to have to change’
“Government, energy suppliers – they’re not really talking to customers about this, or explaining that something significant is going to have to change.”
Heat pumps are also a bigger and noisier option than a gas boiler, which could prove an issue when installed on a large scale. “Architects historically haven’t given any sort of thought to the heating. We’re given a kitchen cupboard for your boiler. So that mindset is going to have to change,” said Mr Gambling.
“We haven’t really got to that point in the uptake where we know whether that’s an intrusion on people’s comfort,” he added. “They’re not as noisy as some people think, but then again, noise is quite subjective.”
Energy efficient homes
It’s not just heat pumps that mean homeowners might need to make costly adjustments.
The Government wants the majority of homes to be EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector. That means retrofitting measures in the two thirds of homes that are currently EPC D or below. Measures might include double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating. Energy efficiency could be linked to lower mortgage rates, or higher loans to cover improvement measures.
However, the Government has scrapped after just six months its flagship £1.5 billion Green Homes Grant scheme, which gave homeowners up to £5,000, or £10,000 for low-income households, towards the cost of insulation and installing low-carbon heating.
Hydrogen boilers
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a much less intrusive option compared with heat pumps, costing around the same as a gas boiler.
But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be and on what scale. When it is, it is likely to be only in certain areas, meaning investing in a hydrogen-ready boiler now could feel like a waste of money down the line.
It is also going to require some retrofitting of pipes to make them safe to carry the hydrogen.
Electric charging points
Accommodating electric cars will mean homeowners need a charger and will face increased energy bills.
New petrol and diesel cars will be banned from sale from 2030, and the Climate Change Committee wants 64 per cent of all cars on the road to be electric by 2032. Installing a charger at home can cost up to £1,000 to install, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.
Electricity bills will increase with daily charging (though still cheaper than fuel costs), making shopping around for the best tariff crucial. Many supply electricity at significantly cheaper off-peak prices which can be utilised if it has smart features. Some can even be linked to the renewable energy supply in your home, such as solar panels, and can sell your excess electricity back to the grid.
But with many deals available online, there is a potential for those without digital access to be left behind, warns Dhara Vyas, the head of Future Energy Services at Citizens Advice.
For those without off-street parking, trailing cables across pavements is technically illegal. Trials are under way in Oxford to dig trenches to stretch the cables from your home to the roadside.
A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said: “The UK has a strong track record in improving the energy performance of its homes, with 40 per cent now rated EPC band C – up from just 9 per cent in 2008.
“We are committed to going further and faster, and are investing £9 billion in improving the energy efficiency of our buildings, while creating hundreds of thousands of skilled green jobs.”
Green house How your home will need to change

Retrofit your home to make it more energy efficient
To reach the Government’s target of the majority of homes rated as EPC C by 2035, and 2030 in the private sector, changes will be needed including double or triple glazing, solid or cavity wall insulation and underfloor heating.
For a semi-detached home, the CCC predicts costs of £8,590 for external wall insulation, up to £2,480 for cavity wall insulation and £740 for loft insulation.
Get a heat pump
Gas boilers in new homes will be banned from 2025, and by 2050, all homes should be using a low-carbon alternative.
Heat pumps, whether air or ground-sourced, are likely to be the most popular alternative.
Right now, the cost of installing them can range from £4,000 to £13,000, but you can get quarterly payments over seven years under the Government’s Renewable Heat Incentive which will effectively cover much of the cost.
To get a heat pump working optimally, you may need to install bigger radiators, underfloor heating and other insulation, which could prove disruptive.
Get a hydrogen boiler
A hydrogen boiler is potentially a less intrusive and cheaper option than a heat pump. But hydrogen is not yet ready for use in homes, and it is unclear when it will be.
Install an EV charger
If you have an electric or a hybrid car, installing a charger at home could cost up to £1,000, with government grants covering up to £350. This is expected to fall to around £680 by 2040.


Sent from my iPad

I’m a bit confused by the Government target for improving home energy ratings to Category C. I thought it was private rental properties by 2030 by law and private properties by 2035 but not a legal requirement. The consultation started in 2020. Some commentators expected that this could provoke a crisis as landlords off loaded hard to improve properties. But then the Government said that it would be up to a maximum of £3500 expenditure. We have been gradually updating the energy efficiency of our daughters house, even getting her last boiler for free under one grant scheme yet the one taken out was only just 10 years old.
I guess that there will be another couple of cartwheels before then.

 

[Dustydog]

A day is a long time in politics Clive. Expect many more changes😜😜😜

 

[ProfJohnL]

We have been gradually updating the energy efficiency of our daughters house, even getting her last boiler for free under one grant scheme yet the one taken out was only just 10 years old.

When I moved in, my house had an old floor mounted cast iron Potterton boiler sure but steady but becoming leaky and in some wind conditions we could begin to smell flue products it was 28years old. So I had it changed about 22 years ago.

This first replacement boiler system was condensing and initially gave me about a 10% improvement over the Potterton, A bit disappointing after all the sales hype, I studied the system and identified a number of significant problems and short comings, so I wont mention the manufacturer, but its internal controls were simply not fast enough to respond to the rate at which it heated water on low heating demands, so it would frequently overshoot and lockout. but after some non invasive control tweaks I got about another 5% improvement, simply by using a faster reacting thermostat on the outflow temperature to interrupt the heat demand signal.

It became more erratic and noisy, so I had it changed about 4 years ago. The more modern boiler from a different manufacturer seems to have under stood all the issues I detected in my previous boiler and as a consequence I have now achieved about a 25% gas usage saving over the original Potterton. It may not be quite that much because our pattern of usage has changed a bit , but its not far off.

The point is, as time goes by more data about performance is gathered and that has led to significant improvements in teh design and reliability of the leading brands.

I would expect the same to happen with any relatively new developments such as ASHP's etc.

 

[Hutch]

Our old "New Mexico 70" Gas boiler fitted 37 years ago to replace an oil boiler has worked fantastically. Its a solid cast iron job, electric solonoid gas valves, a universal thermocouple probe replace 4 times now. Whilst it was being serviced by British gas from 10 years to 20 years old, they kept telling me it should be replaced due to efficiancy, I declined.
It runs 12 medium sized radiators at 60 c I have no intention of replacing it as, I do not think that I would save in gas usage, what I would pay for a new boiler unit, including fitment. I will wait it out.

I do check gas usage over the year and it never changes by more than about 3 to 5 %. And given yearly temperature changes , I am happy.

 

[otherclive]

Still at 19 deg c. No heating since last night but good solar at present warming the outside walls. 😀

No heating or ovens used since 2000h on Easter Sunday and still 16.4 deg c in the lounge. Just shows how effective insulation is, and these lighter evenings we don’t bother to close bedroom curtains as it gets dark.

Given the practicality of insulating I would rather go for a well insulated home with electric heating as my longer term future option. Pretty well maintenance free, quiet and space efficient. Our first house in Plymouth we had panel electrical radiators installed. Each was thermostat and timer controlled. The only problem in those days was the cost of electricity and the kids could burn their hands on the radiators. But they were quick learners.

 

[Gafferbill]

.......I look at the bottom line and I am happy with paying £61/month for total dual fuel domestic energy costs and that includes all servicing costs, electric lawn mowing and occasional electricity use in caravan stored at home.
Includes dusk to dawn security lighting and very occasional use of electric chain saw.
Gas boiler is a Baxi for hot water and central heating and is 43 years old..... advised to replace it at least 30 years ago by the experts!!

I do admit I live in sunny Sussex

 

[Sam Vimes]

No heating or ovens used since 2000h on Easter Sunday and still 16.4 deg c in the lounge. Just shows how effective insulation is, and these lighter evenings we don’t bother to close bedroom curtains as it gets dark.

Given the practicality of insulating I would rather go for a well insulated home with electric heating as my longer term future option. Pretty well maintenance free, quiet and space efficient. Our first house in Plymouth we had panel electrical radiators installed. Each was thermostat and timer controlled. The only problem in those days was the cost of electricity and the kids could burn their hands on the radiators. But they were quick learners.

We designed and built our house 11 years ago and chose to follow Passiv Haus standards. Amongst other things this stipulates the criteria for total energy usage, air tightness and U levels for walls, windows etc. We chose not to install a heating system but instead put in a free standing wood burning stove. We also have a Mechanical Ventilation and Heat Recovery System. This not only helps with the air quality but also ensures that the whole house is at much the same temperature when the stove is going. The house is mostly open plan.

As a concession to creature comforts we have an electric underfloor heater in the bathroom which we switch on when its shower or bath time and then usually for only 90mins or so.

We also have a Solar Panel for Hot Water.

We ticked all the boxes for the Passiv Haus standards but didn't go as far as getting certification since this cost a lot of money for someone to tick the same boxes and give us a piece of paper. We did carry out tests for airtightness though (if you want to know how just ask)

Interestingly enough the Standard Assessment Procedure which would lead to the Energy Performance Certificate failed outright since the software couldn't cope with the construction of the house. Fortunately the engineers were aware of this shortcoming so just ticked the box for Level C for Energy Efficiency and Level B for Environmental Impact.

In fact the SAP calculations were way off compared to what we actually have acheived.

One down side is that with all the insulation and low heat loss the house temperature can be over 35degC in the summer but its cheap to open windows provided no midges around

 

[Buckman]

Now 1320 and heating has been on since 0450. Lounge temperature is 19.2C. We have insulation in the ceiling, cavity insulation has been done and we have wool carpets with underlay on the floors. Outside temperature is 5.5C.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Otherclive.....

I noticed in another thread you lived in Ottawa. We lived just outside Ottawa in the '90s and like you probably can still recall the winters when we clocked -40degC some nights and not that much warmer during the day.

We had an R2000 spec'd home - thick insulation etc. It also had a blown warm air electric heating system. After the first winter of using it we decided we'd get more heat burning the dollar bills directly.

The house also had a wood burning stove and in the winter it was kept going most of the day and a lot cheaper than the hydro bills.

Remember block heaters for the cars and the tyres retaining the flat spot where they'd been standing all night. Like driving on the railroad track for the first few km.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have a relatives in north BC, and spent Christmas and new year1982 with them. We landed at Edmonton at -30, with lots of snow. drove 8 hours across to Alberta to BC. Temp rose to -10 on a couple of days but we we hit -45 on one night. but rarely above -20.

Always gloves when going out, Strangely I've felt colder in the UK with our much greater humidity.

Properties have Supper insulation, and a Lennox gas furnace and hot air kept things inside warm and as you say block heaters order of the day to keep engines warmed.

 

[otherclive]

Otherclive.....

I noticed in another thread you lived in Ottawa. We lived just outside Ottawa in the '90s and like you probably can still recall the winters when we clocked -40degC some nights and not that much warmer during the day.

We had an R2000 spec'd home - thick insulation etc. It also had a blown warm air electric heating system. After the first winter of using it we decided we'd get more heat burning the dollar bills directly.

The house also had a wood burning stove and in the winter it was kept going most of the day and a lot cheaper than the hydro bills.

Remember block heaters for the cars and the tyres retaining the flat spot where they'd been standing all night. Like driving on the railroad track for the first few km.

The house in my post was in Gloucester area of Ottawa and yes I can recall seeing -40/-40 on the outdoor thermometer. The Jeep wasnt used for work travel even though it was plugged in. I used the OC bus which ran to time and was warm on entry. Very cheap too with the monthly pass. That year we had around 6 ft of snow.
Like you the house was well insulated and had blown air heating. But the basement lounge had a wood burner and as the house was largely open plan your front was warm and back chilled. So I rigged some concertina ducting from the landing with a fan and blew air into the basement. The improvement was marginal to say the least.

In spring I moved out as my “landlord” got married and I took the hint. Finished up in Rockcliffe with an apartment facing north over the boonies and underground garage and heated pool. Never had such luxury since. 😂

 

[Buckman]

Our friends in Kelowna in BC don't have cold winters, but this year apparently the temperature dropped down to just under zero with very little snow. End of February it was between 7-10C. However other friends living elsewhere in Canada experienced an extremely cold winter.

 

[Beachball]

We have not had heating on today the only thing that been on is the electric fire 1kw in the Lounge at present .

 

[bertieboy1]

What no fridge or freezer?

My Mother and Father didn't have a fridge or freezer in the house,they didn't have central heating either.They had a smokeless fuel fire with a glass front,it heated the whole house as well as heat the water.It made the water so hot they had to run some off now and again.

 

[otherclive]

My Mother and Father didn't have a fridge or freezer in the house,they didn't have central heating either.They had a smokeless fuel fire with a glass front,it heated the whole house as well as heat the water.It made the water so hot they had to run some off now and again.

Mine didn’t either, nor a bathroom, and it was an outside toilet painted red, white and blue too. But I guess many of my age group were in a similar situation, and I really cannot recall anyone with an air source pump heating system.

 

[bertieboy1]

In a thread about the ban on the sales of Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) cars in the UK by 2030, a point was made about the use of heat pumps to improve the efficiency of cabin heating in Electric Vehicles (EV's). One member began to discuss the problems of using Air Sourced Heating in domestic premises and how that must affect EV's in the same way.

Anyone who's interested in the subject might find these two Youtube video's of interest. These are both quite long, but he does impart quite a lot of technical information and background.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZzto

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zrx-b2sLUs

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a heating engineer said these devices were a waste of time.

 

[otherclive]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that a heating engineer said these devices were a waste of time.

They are already installed in BEV cars. Heat pumps are efficient but like all things they have limitations and they have to be properly designed and integrated into the intended service. Just buying one from a “ travelling” salesman isn’t likely to be a success.

 

[Jcloughie]

My Mother and Father didn't have a fridge or freezer in the house,they didn't have central heating either.They had a smokeless fuel fire with a glass front,it heated the whole house as well as heat the water.It made the water so hot they had to run some off now and again.

We had the first fridge freezer in our street. About 1957. It was an English Electric as dad worked there. In about 1961 I left the chip pan on and burnt the kitchen right out. Dad took the fridge back to the factory. They put new seals on it and recoated the outside and maybe re-gassed it. When mum left that house in about 1977 she sold it to a corner shop, They were still using it for customers to my knowledge in 1986. So at least 29 years old. Not bad for old technology.

John