Electrical Issues

[matty12]

Hello All,

Apologies if this particular question has been asked and answered in the past - I can see variations of it but not both issues combined.

Recently (unexpectedly) acquired a Lunar Solar 462 1997 Caravan. It was on its way to the scrap man because of the issue I’m about to ask for help on.

Caravan hooked up to electric supply from the house. 240v Lights work, as does the fridge. So I know the electric is getting into the van.

No sockets work, nor does anything running from 12v. Do you think this is potentially 2 separate issues and is an unfortunate coincidence, or a fault in the system could be causing both issues?

From what I’ve read, the 12v stuff could be related to the leisure battery - will check tomorrow if there any issues when I get hold of a multi meter. The fridge does not run from the leisure battery when I flick that switch, so definitely no power reaching it, however we know it works as it’s working from the mains supply.

Have also read the sockets could require a new 10A MCB in the PMS5CRV management system.

Nothing glaringly obvious - the earth connection looks a bit suspect, but don’t think this is the issue.

Just wondered if anyone had any helpful ideas.

Thank you

Matt

 

[Woodentop]

The fridge will only work on 12V when the caravan is being towed and the fridge is powered from the towing vehicle. Otherwise it runs from mains or gas only. Most caravans have a fuse - around 20A - between the battery and the 12V distribution. Check the battery voltage with mains off - should be around 12.6V or higher - and then check again with the mains on. It should now be around 13.6V. If there is no change either the aforementioned fuse is blown OR the mains power supply has failed.
To check everything mains is safe, put the mains on, switch on a mains light, and press the test button on the RCD - it should trip instantly.

 

[matty12]

The fridge will only work on 12V when the caravan is being towed and the fridge is powered from the towing vehicle. Otherwise it runs from mains or gas only. Most caravans have a fuse - around 20A - between the battery and the 12V distribution. Check the battery voltage with mains off - should be around 12.6V or higher - and then check again with the mains on. It should now be around 13.6V. If there is no change either the aforementioned fuse is blown OR the mains power supply has failed.
To check everything mains is safe, put the mains on, switch on a mains light, and press the test button on the RCD - it should trip instantly.

Thanks for response. Will hunt for the 20A fuse tomorrow.

Have previously checked the test on the RCD with lights on and it does trip instantly.

Would the 20A fuse be the issue with just the 12v problems, or could it also be impacted the sockets not working in the van?

Thanks, complete novice here really.

 

[Jcloughie]

Welcome to the forum.

I suspect there is an issue with the 240 volt distribution. The consumer unit. Might be as simple as the mcb’s are turned off. If they are all on, I strongly advise that you seek advice from an electrician as it sounds like your electrical knowledge is limited.

John

 

[toad a caravan]

I agree with JC,seek qualified assistance on the 240V supply,as an example my 92 Abbey has a 20 amp fuse resting on top of the wheel arch inside the caravan and to get to it the the floor of the wardrobe lifts out revealing the fuse(the wardrobe has the carver heater sited underneath it) perhaps you could find yours by following the red cable, the mains 240v circuit is fed by a 40amp RCD isolator and three MCB's(fuses),a 10 amp that protects the 240v sockets,a 6amp the 240v lights and another 6 amp that does the fridge and 12v charger.i believe that your Lunar wasn't made far from me at Preston Lancashire,,good luck Gary

 

[matty12]

Thanks all

My old man is a sparky of 50 years, so have the knowledge and skills to help. I just wanted to identify if there were any common faults or things to check, so I can let him know when he comes up today.

I will reply with how it all goes. Cheers

 

[toad a caravan]

Good,I hope you'll put some photos on of your caravan

 

[matty12]

Good,I hope you'll put some photos on of your caravan

This are photos of current situation. Really happy with it despite the electrical issue, as picked it up for free. Usually a tent family, but so excited to start touring with my wife and young kids.

 

[Buckman]

Before investing a lot of money in repairs, can I suggest that you get a damp check done on the caravan as soon as possible?

 

[matty12]

Before investing a lot of money in repairs, can I suggest that you get a damp check done on the caravan as soon as possible?

Thanks for your suggestion. Is there a particular reason why, have you seen something from the photos?
No obvious signs to me, and doesn’t feel or smell damp in there, but I may be missing something.
Cheers

 

[Buckman]

Thanks for your suggestion. Is there a particular reason why, have you seen something from the photos?
No obvious signs to me, and doesn’t feel or smell damp in there, but I may be missing something.
Cheers

On a caravan of that age , especially a Lunar it is well worth having the check done. They weren't known as Leaky Lunars for no reason, but you may have got lucky. Basically the check is for peace of mind. It must be remembered that if there is damp, there could be mould spores which can attack the human respiratory system.

Also what is the age of the tyres as it is recommended the tyres are changed after 5-7 years even if the tread looks perfect. Any idea when last it was serviced. The safety of your family is paramount and again it will give you peace of mind knowing that there are no major unseen issues and that you can enjoy the caravan to its maximum.

I know my post may appear a bit negative, but many of us have been down this route and are aware of potential issues and we like to pass that knowledge onto newbie sin the hope that we have save them a lot of heart ache and money. Ourselves we have had 6 Lunar caravans over a period of time.

Attache dis a picture of one of them, the Clubman from about the nineties.

 

[matty12]

On a caravan of that age , especially a Lunar it is well worth having the check done. They weren't known as Leaky Lunars for no reason, but you may have got lucky. Basically the check is for peace of mind. It must be remembered that if there is damp, there could be mould spores which can attack the human respiratory system.

Also what is the age of the tyres as it is recommended the tyres are changed after 5-7 years even if the tread looks perfect. Any idea when last it was serviced. The safety of your family is paramount and again it will give you peace of mind knowing that there are no major unseen issues and that you can enjoy the caravan to its maximum.

I know my post may appear a bit negative, but many of us have been down this route and are aware of potential issues and we like to pass that knowledge onto newbie sin the hope that we have save them a lot of heart ache and money. Ourselves we have had 6 Lunar caravans over a period of time.

Attache dis a picture of one of them, the Clubman from about the nineties.
View attachment 9279

Thank you. Am grateful for the support and shared knowledge.

Tyres were replaced 3 years ago, and has been regularly towed and used. The family friend who gifted us the caravan were extremely house proud and it has been well maintained. He just didn’t want to shell out on repairing electrics when he’d recently acquired a new camper van

This is the van

 

[Buckman]

Apologies I did not realise it was obtained from a family friend. Very nice and hope that you have many years of enjoyment in it. I think that caravan has the bathroom at the rear?

 

[matty12]

Apologies I did not realise it was obtained from a family friend. Very nice and hope that you have many years of enjoyment in it. I think that caravan has the bathroom at the rear?

Yep you’ve got it. Shower, cupboard, sink and toilet. Doubt we’ll use the shower, but handy to hang wet clothes none the less.

This time last week we didn’t know we were getting a caravan, so it has all happened quite quickly. Glad though, as it’s forced our hand in deciding what we should do with the front garden (2 Panels of fence removed, trees trimmed, membrane and slate chippings to go down over the summer now)

Got a week in Newquay booked for August Bank Holiday, so hopefully get the electrics sorted for then. Not the end of the world if we can’t sort them - have got all the camping gear from our tent, so can just make do with the supply coming in through a window or something on the extension lead.

Will post progress later today! Thanks all for support

 

[toad a caravan]

Less chance of finding damp on the lunar than other makes half its age,they were made when quality mattered

 

[Buckman]

Yep you’ve got it. Shower, cupboard, sink and toilet. Doubt we’ll use the shower, but handy to hang wet clothes none the less.

This time last week we didn’t know we were getting a caravan, so it has all happened quite quickly. Glad though, as it’s forced our hand in deciding what we should do with the front garden (2 Panels of fence removed, trees trimmed, membrane and slate chippings to go down over the summer now)

Got a week in Newquay booked for August Bank Holiday, so hopefully get the electrics sorted for then. Not the end of the world if we can’t sort them - have got all the camping gear from our tent, so can just make do with the supply coming in through a window or something on the extension lead.

Will post progress later today! Thanks all for support

We still have a load of stuff from our previous caravan hanging around looking for a good home, but obviously you are well sorted having previously used a tent.

 

[toad a caravan]

There is a "Lunar tech support group " on face book, as I don't use Facebook I cannot comment further 👍

 

[Jcloughie]

If it is dry and useable then it is worth spending some money getting the electrics sorted so you can get a few years use out of it. Be great if you can get Dad to help. It is always good to get the cost down.

The consumer unit is particular to caravans of that period and probably bespoke to Lunar. If it is faulty. It may be repairable. You may also be able to get a replacement from a breaker. It might even be possible to rewire the whole lot using modern equipment, 240 volt consumer unit, power supply and charger, 12 volt fuse box and switches.

After all, all caravans do the same thing. Mains, plus battery plus car supply’s distributed to the caravans systems.

I guess the weakness is the distribution bit. And, fingers crossed, it might be a simple fix.

John

 

[Beachball]

Thank you. Am grateful for the support and shared knowledge.

Tyres were replaced 3 years ago, and has been regularly towed and used. The family friend who gifted us the caravan were extremely house proud and it has been well maintained. He just didn’t want to shell out on repairing electrics when he’d recently acquired a new camper van

This is the van View attachment 9280

Hi Matt Welcome to the forum, I hope you can get the electrics sorted that caravan still looks stunning and plenty of holidays to come with your family enjoy

 

[matty12]

The fridge will only work on 12V when the caravan is being towed and the fridge is powered from the towing vehicle. Otherwise it runs from mains or gas only. Most caravans have a fuse - around 20A - between the battery and the 12V distribution. Check the battery voltage with mains off - should be around 12.6V or higher - and then check again with the mains on. It should now be around 13.6V. If there is no change either the aforementioned fuse is blown OR the mains power supply has failed.
To check everything mains is safe, put the mains on, switch on a mains light, and press the test button on the RCD - it should trip instantly.

This is the first fuse I come to following the red line out of the leisure battery 16A. Anyone know where these are easily accessible to purchase if this is faulty when checked shortly? Will the Local caravan shop likely stock them or are they an online order? Thanks again all, your help is appreciated

 

[matty12]

Hi Matt Welcome to the forum, I hope you can get the electrics sorted that caravan still looks stunning and plenty of holidays to come with your family enjoy

Thank you Beachball

 

[Woodentop]

Older type of fuse but readily available but still found in caravans and obtainable from the likes of Halfords or any other auto spares. They are NOT specific to caravans.

 

[ProfJohnL]

At the risk alienating, you and your generous family member who gifted you the caravan, I do echo Buckman's concerns about damp. I would only begin to spend money on sorting the electrics as long I am certain about the existing condition of the caravan. If there is any damp, that is where you need to start assessing the finical costs of bringing the caravan back into use or scraping it.

I conclude from your narrative about the caravan, the electrics had started to play up whilst your relative owned the caravan, so I also assume your relative has explained how the systems should work, so were not fault finding a case of owner inexperience.

For your information, the caravan has three electrical systems.

The 12V road lights, which are powered by the tow vehicle when its hitched up. The tow vehicle also should have dedicated circuits in the connection plug(s) to provide 12V power to charge the caravan battery, and to feed the 12V cooling circuit of the fridge whilst the engine is running.

The caravans 12V equipment, such as lighting, water pump, blown warm air fans, radio, Aerial signal booster, caravan motor mover, take power from the caravans battery.

The 230V ac Mains fittings and appliances will only work when the caravan Electric Hook Up (EHU) cable is connected to a 230V ac supply from the site.

The pictures you have supplied show an electrical distribution unit which houses both the mains protection and distribution equipment, and the caravan batteries 12V circuit protection and switch controls. It also houses the caravan mains powered battery charger/power supply. this should optimised to recharge and maintain a typical caravan leisure type battery.

You specifically ask if there is any way the 12V system holds control over the 230V mains outlets, and the answer is NO! If t he 230V ac outlets are not working the problem lies with the 230Vac controls or wiring. If you r father is an electrician he should have the tools and knowledge to be able to find and fix the problem.

 

[matty12]

Afternoon all, and thanks for your reply Prof John.

I really am pretty confident there isn’t much dampness going on, but will take your points into consideration. I don’t think it outweighs any decision to continue using the van.

The sockets are now all working. The MCB was dead. This has now been replaced. Progress has been made!

No 12v equipment is working. Leisure battery appears to be dead.

Have not spent any money so far to get it to this point, perhaps a couple pints to my dad later!

Thanks all

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the 12V battery has zero volts across its terminals, then be prepared to have to get a new battery. Lead Acid batteries discharged to zero V (infact anything below 12V) for any extended period will damage the battery.

Obviously with a flat OV) battery non of the 12V equipment will work, and some chargers will refuse to restart to charge the battery, so disconnect it. Then use th eelectrical hook up to see if the caravans battery charger will power the 12V lights. If it does that means it probably working fine, and will recharge a good battery.