i worked in germany for 3 years ,and i found them very polite and easy to get on with ,you must also remember that we had german mercinaries in our army ,when the americans were fighting for indepence ,last Christmas and new year we took our caravan to Vilanova in Spain , we had Dutch and german and British families all in the same area , and we all got on well in fact we all celebrated the new year in together , and for all those that think they are some special breed ,just remember this , the original inhabitants of this land were the Celtic tribes , being Welsh scots and irish , the original language was Celtic ,Enlish is a mongrel race ,with a mongrel language ,the german and Danish Genes are stronger towards the east of Britain , and for the other quips about the reversing tanks ,and the white flags will that also apply to the retreat of the british army at the Malayan peninsular , and the surrender of the British army at Singapore to the Japs , and before any body slags me off , just read what Winston Churchil said
I've been called names, but never obnoxious or arrogant before. It's about as full of prejudice as Germans thinking all Brits are conservative and conceited. And as for them throwing their towels over sunbeds at 7 in the morning, I find that practice just as obnoxious.
My experience during the 2006 World Cup was that all Brits that came and actually saw the country for themselves were pleasantly surprised.
My experience during the 2006 World Cup was that all Brits that came and actually saw the country for themselves were pleasantly surprised.
Lutz i would like apologise on behalf of the forum members , i hope you stay with us , i really enjoy reading your postings , all the best from us all , Joe
Lutz please dont be offended by a minority of small minded ....... I look forward to and enjoy reading your posts, as for the germans in general Ive been to germany for 2 holidays and loved the country and the people we met. I was actualy born in Rinteln north west Germany and this was the first oportunity Ive had to go back to my birth place.
Keep up the posts Lutz
Kevin
Keep up the posts Lutz
Kevin
Hi Lutz
I'm with Kevin on this. I spent 4 years living in Germany when in the army in the 70's and am returning for the first time at the beginning of July. Am really looking forward to it.
I'm with Kevin on this. I spent 4 years living in Germany when in the army in the 70's and am returning for the first time at the beginning of July. Am really looking forward to it.
The World would be a much darker place if we did not move on from Pre-History and pre-historic attitudes.
England is not perfect and has a very dark and blood stained past, in fact I'm not entirely proud of our growing criminal and sick links with drugs, violence, paedophilia and pure greed.
Remind me again how we currently (other than our Service personnel) can class ourselves as being better than any other Country. Think that puts us ahead of the Germans in the arrogance tables.
Humankind will be losers if we don't learn to forgive and move on.
England is not perfect and has a very dark and blood stained past, in fact I'm not entirely proud of our growing criminal and sick links with drugs, violence, paedophilia and pure greed.
Remind me again how we currently (other than our Service personnel) can class ourselves as being better than any other Country. Think that puts us ahead of the Germans in the arrogance tables.
Humankind will be losers if we don't learn to forgive and move on.
I did intend posting an interesting and debatable topic but it's now gone to farce. It is appropriate to quote the past if it is relevant but by calling others "losers" is just insulting and I want no part of it. It's time to let this topic drop before it gets deleted.
This is my last post on the topic and that is to say I can see Franks point about the need of an army but I can't see the point of where only British personnel should fight and die while others supply the kit.
It wont happen in my time, I will be long gone pushing up daisies but I do fear the worse for my children and grandchildren. What a legacy we are leaving them :O(
This is my last post on the topic and that is to say I can see Franks point about the need of an army but I can't see the point of where only British personnel should fight and die while others supply the kit.
It wont happen in my time, I will be long gone pushing up daisies but I do fear the worse for my children and grandchildren. What a legacy we are leaving them :O(
Germany, well they have no hope! They've lost two world wars and only ever beat those they could walk over, choose to fight in winter with little or no idea on the logistics and pick on people who gave them previous hidings.
----
Ahhhhh - the myths and legends that get so busily created by 'victors'
Yep - Germany was defeated - but it took three quarters of the world to do it. Why? - perhaps because they (the German people) had an ideology and a cause that they truly believed in. something that had a ring of truth to them, something that gave them pride and hope, and the courage to stand against a spew of lies and deceit.
Try not to beleive every old wives tale that gets bandied about regarding Germany and WW2 - there are those with a lot to gain from keeping old lies alive, you do realise that?
----
Ahhhhh - the myths and legends that get so busily created by 'victors'
Yep - Germany was defeated - but it took three quarters of the world to do it. Why? - perhaps because they (the German people) had an ideology and a cause that they truly believed in. something that had a ring of truth to them, something that gave them pride and hope, and the courage to stand against a spew of lies and deceit.
Try not to beleive every old wives tale that gets bandied about regarding Germany and WW2 - there are those with a lot to gain from keeping old lies alive, you do realise that?
I can not see why this subject should be a problem, I can not see that there is anything that should be taken personal here.
I have very elderly relatives who are alive despite the horrors they endured during WW2.
Mention of Germany and Japan still brings fear and loathing to them.
Their children, my cosusins, have lived over Sixty years of the injuries caused by old enemies. Whatever younger generations think, old memories, stories and experiences are still within living memory. A holocaust survivor I know can not stand hearing mention of Germans linked to Military matters. I would not like to try questioning her reasoning.
It is fine for Lutz to comment on constitusional matters but surely he and others must realise that until WW2 is out of direct living memory many still feel they have good reason to mistrust and question German and other old enemies motives and comments re military and other actions.
War is not nice and nor are many of the memories left by it, as military personel from current and recent conflicts will soon tell you.
I have very elderly relatives who are alive despite the horrors they endured during WW2.
Mention of Germany and Japan still brings fear and loathing to them.
Their children, my cosusins, have lived over Sixty years of the injuries caused by old enemies. Whatever younger generations think, old memories, stories and experiences are still within living memory. A holocaust survivor I know can not stand hearing mention of Germans linked to Military matters. I would not like to try questioning her reasoning.
It is fine for Lutz to comment on constitusional matters but surely he and others must realise that until WW2 is out of direct living memory many still feel they have good reason to mistrust and question German and other old enemies motives and comments re military and other actions.
War is not nice and nor are many of the memories left by it, as military personel from current and recent conflicts will soon tell you.
I agree Euro, that is why I started the topic but when insults of a nationalistic nature start it's time to stop. I realise you probably haven't read the insults because the Mods deleted them. It's a wonder of wonders the whole thread didn't go the same way as many others.
Perhaps indoctrination is stronger in Germany? - I suppose, upon reflection, that it must be.
It all comes down to what you believe.
This is not the place to discuss alleged crimes - but there is a yardstick that can be applied by any reasonable person, that of 'the need for truth to be defended'
It's an odd kind of truth that needs prison sentences and heavy fines to bolster it - as in the case of the things alleged to have taken place in Germany in the 30's & 40's.
Why is this subject so unalterably holy? - why cannot facts and figures be questioned?, why does the slightest deviation from the Orthodoxy drummed into us all from childhood immediately bring down carefully co-ordinated wrath upon the heads of those who attempt to think for themselves?
For myself, the more that certain lobby groups try to suppress free discussion about these matters, the more I am convinced that there is something to hide. Truth is Truth - it stands by itself, it needs no laws to compel people to believe it.
It's as well, also, to remember that guilt can be profitable - guilty people cough up vast sums to atone for the sins which they are informed were committed by their fathers. No Guilt, no Gelt. Is that about the size of it?
I've prommised Mod Ken that I'll be gentle on this sensitive forum Lord B.
I saw the comments earlier yesterday L B but took them to be a general snapshot critique or a kind of cartoonist carriacature view.
Sorry but, these subjects bring raw emotions to the surface, if Lutz or anyone else felt directly insulted may be they have misjudged the effect of history.
Also age and dealing with or bing related to people with first hand bad experience of old enemies can not be fully understood by younger generations who see the places of their birth with a different perspective or people they meet on holiday as a direct comparison for the actions by people of sixty to ninety years ago.
I saw the comments earlier yesterday L B but took them to be a general snapshot critique or a kind of cartoonist carriacature view.
Sorry but, these subjects bring raw emotions to the surface, if Lutz or anyone else felt directly insulted may be they have misjudged the effect of history.
Also age and dealing with or bing related to people with first hand bad experience of old enemies can not be fully understood by younger generations who see the places of their birth with a different perspective or people they meet on holiday as a direct comparison for the actions by people of sixty to ninety years ago.
hi all
I have read this thread since it began and did not really want to get involved but one has to say (taken in conjuntion with the 6th of june thread)that old sores take longer to heal than new ones.
personally I dont have a problem with the germans or italians (old enemies they may be) it's the french that need watching my father was a pow for 4 years in the war so he should have hated them but no he did not as although rations were short they were fairly treated.
he hated the french who turned him in after he was shot down even though he was fighting to free them and was only 20 killometers from the coast at the time.
as he used to put it "the frogs uhh totally untrustworthy they are like giving a beggar a
I have read this thread since it began and did not really want to get involved but one has to say (taken in conjuntion with the 6th of june thread)that old sores take longer to heal than new ones.
personally I dont have a problem with the germans or italians (old enemies they may be) it's the french that need watching my father was a pow for 4 years in the war so he should have hated them but no he did not as although rations were short they were fairly treated.
he hated the french who turned him in after he was shot down even though he was fighting to free them and was only 20 killometers from the coast at the time.
as he used to put it "the frogs uhh totally untrustworthy they are like giving a beggar a
Isn't it rather oversimplifying the matter to say 'the Germans are untrustworthy' or 'the French are are untrustworthy'. Trust is not a national trait, but a personal one. There are both trustworthy and untrustworthy people everywhere in the world. It just becomes a problem if you have direct dealings with an untrustworthy one or if an untrustworthy leader happens to be in power. Then there is a danger that one tends to generalise and apply the ticket to the whole country.
Depending on how far you look back, there are enough examples of untrustworthiness of the British, too.
Depending on how far you look back, there are enough examples of untrustworthiness of the British, too.
Pots kettles and black spring to mind. Those murdering English and the amount of Scots and Irish they have slaughtered you can't trust them an inch.
Anyway back to Lord B's inial point I think the more fundemental point of a European army would be the fact that you would really be giving up the right to your own self determination. I would rate this move alongside a centrally raised European income tax the end result being more or less the same The United Stsates of Europe.
I feel that we have little to fear from our neighbours armies after all NATO has survived for a few years but I think the integration would naturally bring to the fore peoples predjuices.
Imagine laying down your kit bag and trusting the Romanian guy next to you not to steal everything etc.
On the plus side I can clearly see that if countries were pooling their resources there could probally be a few billion Euros to be saved amongst the countries.
Finally whilst my first paragraph was tongue in cheek if Germany and Poland can bury the hatchet maybe this is the type inspiration we all need.
Anyway back to Lord B's inial point I think the more fundemental point of a European army would be the fact that you would really be giving up the right to your own self determination. I would rate this move alongside a centrally raised European income tax the end result being more or less the same The United Stsates of Europe.
I feel that we have little to fear from our neighbours armies after all NATO has survived for a few years but I think the integration would naturally bring to the fore peoples predjuices.
Imagine laying down your kit bag and trusting the Romanian guy next to you not to steal everything etc.
On the plus side I can clearly see that if countries were pooling their resources there could probally be a few billion Euros to be saved amongst the countries.
Finally whilst my first paragraph was tongue in cheek if Germany and Poland can bury the hatchet maybe this is the type inspiration we all need.
sorry x11 but I stand by what I said about the french would you trust your security to a nation that has only self interest in mind not me,for sure.
thats why we have so many immigrants here because the frogs can't get them over the channel fast enough.
thats why we have so many immigrants here because the frogs can't get them over the channel fast enough.
The French are too busy selling and arming the worlds trouble spots. When it comes to morals they have none preferring to sell them to their allies enemies.
Remember 82, the Falklands, Exocet missiles, Super
Remember 82, the Falklands, Exocet missiles, Super
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