On rallies and temporary holiday sites without EHU I have used a 13kg propane bottle standing outside the gas locker. I always thought that as long as it was stable and under 15 kg it was within the rules. Just left a THS with my bottle. Steward asked me if I knew the rules as he had just read that it might be against the rules. This was meant as enquiring rather criticism of me. I looked on the C and CC website and found that it probably is. It says if there is a good reason one up to 15 kg may be positioned outside as long as it strapped to the caravan etc. It cites the example of no gas locker. So by implication if you have a locker then no external bottles. It applies to all club events. It is apparently for safety reasons.
External gas bottles
- Thread starter waffler
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
The rule about external cylinders has been in force for a long time, and as you have suggested it is for safety reasons that is frowned upon to use external cylinders.
I could give you chapter and verse about why gas cylinders should be inside the gas locker, but I wont !!!
The main reason is to prevent tampering with the cylinder and security of the cylinders.
Another is to avoid a cylinder falling over, or the strap being cut and deliberately laid flat and the van receiving liquid gas inside and the resulting huge flame that would produce.
And of course to stop the theft of the cylinder.
I know people do have external cylinders, but that does not make it right.
I could give you chapter and verse about why gas cylinders should be inside the gas locker, but I wont !!!
The main reason is to prevent tampering with the cylinder and security of the cylinders.
Another is to avoid a cylinder falling over, or the strap being cut and deliberately laid flat and the van receiving liquid gas inside and the resulting huge flame that would produce.
And of course to stop the theft of the cylinder.
I know people do have external cylinders, but that does not make it right.
My understanding is that gas bottles upto and including? 19kg are classed as free standing. So they are ok. I seem to remember that about 10 years ago a similar questions was asked in the CC magazine, there was much umming and arhhing but conclusion was there was nothing illegal in the practise. This is theoretical for me as I can get 2 x 13kg gas bottles in the locker should I want to.
Parksy
Moderator
C&CC 
sites, rallies and THS limit the use of secured free standing lpg bottles to 15kg where the caravan has no internal gas storage locker
Free standing lpg bottles of any size for use with gas barbecues are prohibited
sites, rallies and THS limit the use of secured free standing lpg bottles to 15kg where the caravan has no internal gas storage lockerFree standing lpg bottles of any size for use with gas barbecues are prohibited
Parksy said:C&CC
Free standing lpg bottles of any size for use with gas barbecues are prohibited
Parksy
So would a small Campingaz butane R904/907 bottle for use with the Cadac be prohibited too? If so how do campers get on? Or would use with a cooker be allowed?
Regardless of what legal regulations might apply, you are using a site which has the right to apply any requirements they choose over and above any national regulations.
Free standing bottles can cause problems. and they can be a safety danger.
Free standing bottles can cause problems. and they can be a safety danger.
ProfJohnL said:
I fully appreciate that a site owner can specify their own requirements which may be more restrictive than the legal ones. But my question was to Parksy who is a regular CCC attendee and I was just querying whether campers at local meets or THS are banned from using free standing gas bottles as used by camping cookers or CADAC. Guess they could always rely on meths /paraffin or petrol stoves ! These in my early years presented far more risk than a dumpy 1.8-3.9 kg bottle of butane. Everything can be a safety danger if used incorrectly but life would be incredibly dull if the H&S brigade had their way. And this from a professional engineer who set up a Safety and Environmental consultancy, but we wouldn’t touch those topics which are bread and butter to so many poorly qualified proponents of the art who basically seek to cover every risk with signage and prohibitions.
Ridiculous. We are professional campers and caravanners of many years standing. I have a gas portable single burner stove that uses a butane cartridge. Is that unacceptable too. I’m all for being safe but for heavens sake can we bypass the Nanny state. Clive, probably like you I grew up on sites where Tilley lamps and primus stoves were used. Remember heating the Primus burner with meths and then pumping the paraffin through.otherclive said:
Parksy
Moderator
I haven't been on a C&CC rally for a while now, but I think that the intention of the rule was to deter attendees from using the large free standing lpg bottles with the inherent danger of one of them falling onto a child.
As for the very small butane containers for barbecues or outside stoves, the C&CC website states that they are not allowed.
As someone who has acted as a rally steward, a bit of common sense has to come into play, and a blind eye is often turned for smaller outdoor appliances.
I wonder what position an insurance company would take in the event of a mishap though?
As for the very small butane containers for barbecues or outside stoves, the C&CC website states that they are not allowed.
As someone who has acted as a rally steward, a bit of common sense has to come into play, and a blind eye is often turned for smaller outdoor appliances.
I wonder what position an insurance company would take in the event of a mishap though?
Don't shoot the messenger, if you have a problem with a sites rules take it up with the site. I was pointing out that sites can and do impose site rules that may be tighter than national regulations.
Parksy
Moderator
Argghh!!!!
I've mixed one part of the C&CC rules up when I read them! :woohoo:
Portable gas containers outside the gas locker can not be used to supply lpg to the caravan, not the barbecue.
Sorry guys
I've mixed one part of the C&CC rules up when I read them! :woohoo:
Portable gas containers outside the gas locker can not be used to supply lpg to the caravan, not the barbecue.
Sorry guys
Have a pint and refresh the little grey cellsParksy said:Argghh!!!!
I've mixed one part of the C&CC rules up when I read them! :woohoo:
Portable gas containers outside the gas locker can not be used to supply lpg to the caravan, not the barbecue.
Sorry guys
ProfJohnL said:
Prof
No one is shooting a messenger but your comment added little or anything to what Parksy had written. However looking deeper as is my way I delved into the CCC website to find that free standing gas bottles are restricted to two areas. Any lpg over 15 kg not allowed. And feeding gas from a free standing bottle into the outfit via a hose link not allowed. In fact the CCC information page shows a fine array of free standing bottles commonly used.
Viz: https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/camping-safety/gas-and-other-fuels/external-gas-cylinders/
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/gas-tent-campers/
Which messenger should step forth first and buy the next round ?
Parksy
Moderator
Err, that would be me.otherclive said:ProfJohnL said:
Prof
No one is shooting a messenger but your comment added little or anything to what Parksy had written. However looking deeper as is my way I delved into the CCC website to find that free standing gas bottles are restricted to two areas. Any lpg over 15 kg not allowed. And feeding gas from a free standing bottle into the outfit via a hose link not allowed. In fact the CCC information page shows a fine array of free standing bottles commonly used.
Viz: https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/camping-safety/gas-and-other-fuels/external-gas-cylinders/
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/gas-tent-campers/
Which messenger should step forth first and buy the next round ?
I did the equivalent of the old soldiers joke, 'Send reinforcements, we're going to advance' becoming 'Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance'
Parksy said:Err, that would be me.otherclive said:ProfJohnL said:
Prof
No one is shooting a messenger but your comment added little or anything to what Parksy had written. However looking deeper as is my way I delved into the CCC website to find that free standing gas bottles are restricted to two areas. Any lpg over 15 kg not allowed. And feeding gas from a free standing bottle into the outfit via a hose link not allowed. In fact the CCC information page shows a fine array of free standing bottles commonly used.
Viz: https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/camping-safety/gas-and-other-fuels/external-gas-cylinders/
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/gas-tent-campers/
Which messenger should step forth first and buy the next round ?
I did the equivalent of the old soldiers joke, 'Send reinforcements, we're going to advance' becoming 'Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance'
I think we all do something similar at times. Cheers
Plan to return my nearly empty 13kg bottle and get the 30 quid back. Thought I'd move to a safefill but tried one and it wont go in my locker. The VIP has a locker on the off side and although a sign inside it mentions BP light 10 kg I cant shut the door with a refillable in place. The posh locks extend too far and foul the cylinder. So down to 2 6kg Calor and hope i can get refills. Never mind the cost!!!!!! For new year rally when i can get through 4 kg a day if it's cold i'll get another 6kg and hide it in the spare locker. Then return the empty. Looked at Flogas but that seems as dear as calor. Emailed Budget gas but got no reply. I hear of people who get Budget from a corner shop at £14!!!! Cant find anywhere in Telford though. We spent thousands on the caravan and car and now I complain about the price of gas. I just feel I'm being ripped off.
Don’t off grid much these days. The 6kg do seem to last a long time ,even with regular use. Eg no electric kettle or grill.
We can go over two to three weeks / lets say 21 days usage, never cheched reallly, using a 6 kg calor, using the BBQ and cooker. Maybe longer , we have the power set to 8 amp and gas, using the thetford combie 4 e. And we like the caravan Hot. Use the caravan shower, etc.
...........my caravan can easily accommodate a 13 kgs calor cylinder in the front locker.
I had that fact on my list of requirements before buying the caravan
I had that fact on my list of requirements before buying the caravan
Gafferbill said:...........my caravan can easily accommodate a 13 kgs calor cylinder in the front locker.
I had that fact on my list of requirements before buying the caravan
I was beginning to think I was the only person on here using a 13kg cylinder.
I am guessing that (Sir) Baldrick WC gives little of his time to changing over gas cylinders
I/we must have been 'naughty boys' as during our CC rallying days (800 rallies)-- those of us who were 'strong' enough to handle them used freestanding 19k bottles (as the gas was about half the price of 6k gas) most did. That was only for about 30 years! Never heard a word against the practice whilst doing it, --- wouldn't do it now as we hardly use (if we do) a 6kg a year (Rely on electrickery these days!)
Anseo said:...I am guessing that (Sir) Baldrick WC gives little of his time to changing over gas cylinders
......I change the cylinder to fit the type of caravanning.
Last two trips were to sites with16 amp EHU so only fitted one standard 6kgs Calor propane and did not use any gas at all. The gas was only there in case of a power cut such as we were subjected to at the Spring Woosiefest at Thornbrook Barn.
Next trip is 9 days off grid on two rallies so will take one 13kgs Calor propane that is almost full.
Just about to go on 18 nights off grid so are taking both Safefills 10kg and 8.6kg doubt I will have that much gas left at the end of the holidays. That’s about £20 of gas and total pitch fees not much more than £130 ish.
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