FAO Doug King

[Gybe]

According to latest DfT data there were 245000 miles of UK roads and only 2000 miles of that is motorway, with over 8 million UK puncture per years that's over 900 punctures per hour. We would have cars littered all over the motorway hard shoulders if many puctures actually happened on motorways

There was no mention earlier in these posts about changing wheels on motorways

Green Flag, RAC and the AA all give advice and guidance on changing wheels and that points to the fact the the 4th emergency service types do not expect to be doing all regular wheel changing. AA and RAC charges are much the same as insurance charges, they are based on a few out of all motorists needing to call on the providers services not a basis that you make a payment so you must or have every right to make a claim thus escalating the costs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGSw6_bfehs
"After paying for full European membership for the last 12 years"

I'm now a AA complimentary "GOLD MEMBERSHIP" member as on the 1st of December I enter my 40th year loyal to the AA. I don't see that as a right to call them out to repair any puncture I might have. About 74% of motorists are supposed to expect to change a wheel if they get a puncture, none of them appear to belong here ;-)
Well, one does or may ber two

 

[Parksy]

..................."After paying for full European membership for the last 12 years"

I'm now a AA complimentary "GOLD MEMBERSHIP" member as on the 1st of December I enter my 40th year loyal to the AA. I don't see that as a right to call them out to repair any puncture I might have. About 74% of motorists are supposed to expect to change a wheel if they get a puncture, none of them appear to belong here ;-)
Well, one does or may ber two

Good for you Gybe

If I see either yourself or your lady wife struggling to get your spare from underneath your caravan, or close to the carriageway of a motorway or trunk road changing a n/s wheel after a puncture I'll do my best to give you a wide berth as I'm passing.
Me? I'll use the breakdown services that I've paid for thanks

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

. AA and RAC charges are much the same as insurance charges, they are based on a few out of all motorists needing to call on the providers services not a basis that you make a payment so you must or have every right to make a claim thus escalating the costs.

quite right, but on that basis I should have free car insurance

seeing as how in 46 years of driving I have never had a accident or made a claim "not even when the boot was broken into and my tools stolen" but no only the last 5 years count and I pay the same premium as everyone else, because guess what some drivers acctually do make claims.
it is the same with the recovery service I too was with the AA for 40+ years 44 acctually and had the top rate of cover, but through information passed on from this very forum found out that they would not cover the recovery of the van "IF" the towcar was still operational and the fault was with the trailer, a fact confirmed on renewal. when I asked "if I had a bearing falure or punture on the van will you come out "the answer was "no"" so I changed to Mayday through the CC who would.
as for the frequency of puntures quoted don't know where that comes from because in all my time caravanning I have had only one and that was in the days of crossplys and things called innertubes,
but if I do get another some time in the next 40 years I know the man in a van will fix it,
will yours???

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

If I see either yourself or your lady wife struggling to get your spare from underneath your caravan, or close to the carriageway of a motorway or trunk road changing a n/s wheel after a puncture I'll do my best to give you a wide berth as I'm passing.
Me? I'll use the breakdown services that I've paid for thanks

""Whisper"" think you mean "offside" Parksy nearside is the one truck drivers use as a toilet in the layby.

 

[Parksy]

I stand corrected Colin, I did in fact mean offside

I'd still call the RAC 'Mayday' out for nearside as well though

 

[Dustydog]

I stand corrected Colin, I did in fact mean offside

I'd still call the RAC 'Mayday' out for nearside as well though

No wonder you're confused Parksy. You've spent too long away with the Woosies on bogside

Gybe
I was just wondering how exactly you lift your caravan?
As Parksy has said previously any one with the Al-ko secure wheel locks needs to jack up the caravan to line up the holes. Not easy for me with a heavy TA .

 

[Sproket]

Gybe
I was just wondering how exactly you lift your caravan?
As Parksy has said previously any one with the Al-ko secure wheel locks needs to jack up the caravan to line up the holes. Not easy for me with a heavy TA .

Gybe,
You could always post a photo to show how easy you do it

Jacking up of course

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/our-website/how-post-photos-forum

 

[Surfer]

I think Gybe lost his case on wheel changing before he even presented it! LOL!

 

[emmerson]

Having spent many of my (younger) years repairing lorries at the roadside, inc motorways, now in my later years, I would not dream of attempting any repair AT ALL at the roadside. It is simply unsafe to do so.It's got nothing to do with how many years I've paid for breakdown cover; it's simple common sense. The recovery people have all the necessary safety equipment to carry out the job, so leave it to them.
BTW, ref the remarks about trolley jacks not being the right tool for the job, have you noticed what the recovery boys use??
That's right! Trolley jacks!
There is always the air jack, blown up by the car exhaust. Works on soft ground too. I'll have to dig mine out again.

 

[Dustydog]

There is always the air jack, blown up by the car exhaust. Works on soft ground too. I'll have to dig mine out again. That's very good Emmo
The mobile engineer who serviced my mates caravan this year also used one of those air bag things under the axle .
His was run off compressed air. Are they easily obtainable? Sir Sproket will no doubt tell me

 

[Parksy]

I beat Sprocket to it

 

[Sproket]

I beat Sprocket to it

Plenty of hot air in this post to do it without the aid of the car

 

[Gybe]

Using a trolley jack correctly on a solid surface and putting the lifting pad under a suitable jacking point for car or caravan is obviously ideal. If you pitch on grass and find you have a puncture or want to jack up the caravan to fit a lock you are likely to have a problem
In my garage I use a couple of alloy Facom trolley jacks, I wouldn't haul one of those around in car or caravan.

1. Underside of caravan is a stupid place for spare wheel storage (in my opinion). Ours travels in the front locker.
2. A five year old can easily operate a hydraulic bottle jack (Clarke, with extended lever). Why would we struggle?
3. Our heavy twin axe is easy to jack up as we have a jacking point fitted between the wheels on each side ( same setup used on commercial trailers I use at work).

Whilst I'm fit enough I'll always jack up a caravan or car and change a wheel and I'm not going to waste time waiting on a breakdown service and run up motoring costs unless I have to.
If you're fit and not in danger it's the most reasonable thing to do. Your probably more likely to have a puncture off of motorways.

" April 2012
Many motorists are ill-prepared for a puncture, with an astonishing 1.3 million (four per cent) drivers admitting they don’t even know whether they have a spare wheel or not.
The study, carried out for Kwik Fit, the automotive repair company, found that a million (three per cent) of UK motorists confess to not having any provision whatsoever for a flat tyre.
With an estimated 8.8 million (26 per cent) drivers suffering a puncture each year in the UK, this could lead to a quarter of a million cars being stranded at the roadside in the next 12 months."

This section is just very sad story of lack of UK education and how lazy Brits have become. If today was 1939 again we'd all be speaking German in 6 years time

 

[RogerL]

There is always the air jack, blown up by the car exhaust. Works on soft ground too. I'll have to dig mine out again.

That's what I bought in the '80s - used it several times on the caravan and a couple of cars with collapsed suspension so too low to use a trolley jack.
Sadly there was insufficient clear area under my '00s caravan so it's stored in the garage.
They should still be available as the car rally boys use them.

 

[RogerL]

If today was 1939 again we'd all be speaking German in 6 years time

It's the German car industry behind the major drive to eliminate spare wheel provision on new cars - they use breakdown services all the time to deal with punctures.

 

[Sproket]

A five year old can easily operate a hydraulic bottle jack (Clarke, with extended lever). Why would we struggle?
Our heavy twin axe is easy to jack up as we have a jacking point fitted between the wheels on each side
( same setup used on commercial trailers I use at work).

Would like to see a photo of your jack in place between the wheels

how to post photos on the forum

Obviously if it's top secret

 

[DeliDave_]

I'm lucky enough to have a large van to tow with so I can carry some board and a small trolley jack but changing a wheel on a road is a serious safety problem.I've got Arrival and they can earn their money unless I'm certain its safe

 

[Dustydog]

Using a trolley jack correctly on a solid surface and putting the lifting pad under a suitable jacking point for car or caravan is obviously ideal. If you pitch on grass and find you have a puncture or want to jack up the caravan to fit a lock you are likely to have a problem
In my garage I use a couple of alloy Facom trolley jacks, I wouldn't haul one of those around in car or caravan.

1. Underside of caravan is a stupid place for spare wheel storage (in my opinion). Ours travels in the front locker.
2. A five year old can easily operate a hydraulic bottle jack (Clarke, with extended lever). Why would we struggle?
3. Our heavy twin axe is easy to jack up as we have a jacking point fitted between the wheels on each side ( same setup used on commercial trailers I use at work).

Whilst I'm fit enough I'll always jack up a caravan or car and change a wheel and I'm not going to waste time waiting on a breakdown service and run up motoring costs unless I have to.
If you're fit and not in danger it's the most reasonable thing to do. Your probably more likely to have a puncture off of motorways.

" April 2012
Many motorists are ill-prepared for a puncture, with an astonishing 1.3 million (four per cent) drivers admitting they don’t even know whether they have a spare wheel or not.
The study, carried out for Kwik Fit, the automotive repair company, found that a million (three per cent) of UK motorists confess to not having any provision whatsoever for a flat tyre.
With an estimated 8.8 million (26 per cent) drivers suffering a puncture each year in the UK, this could lead to a quarter of a million cars being stranded at the roadside in the next 12 months."

This section is just very sad story of lack of UK education and how lazy Brits have become. If today was 1939 again we'd all be speaking German in 6 years time

Gybe I'm lost for words.

So please tell me and us mere mortal caravanners on here exactly how you jack up????????
If you have some magic piece between the twin axle wheels wheels I'd love to know.
My five year old grandson couldn't do what you suggest.

Just tell us all , technically, how you do it.

I'm an old well seasoned travelled dog but you seem to have answers to the holy grail I've searched for for years. HOW do we do it????

 

[ProfJohnL]

............................

This section is just very sad story of lack of UK education and how lazy Brits have become. If today was 1939 again we'd all be speaking German in 6 years time

Hello Gybe

I consider that remark borders on being offensive!

Its exceedingly disingenuous towards the UK population born, growing and working since events surrounding 1939. The fact is the social structure of the world has changed.

Education has to be a broad based processes, recognising a wide range of opportunities, skills and wishes. Like it or not there is more to life (and education) than just engineering.

Whilst I bemoan the decline of the UK engineering sector, I do recognise that not everyone has an aptitude for engineering, and not everyone will have the same empathy toward mechanical systems as you or I. And in practice with the advancement in tools and systems, some of the more fundamental things I learnt are no longer needed.

For example, I was taught how to create logarithms. But in my entire working life, I have never needed to calculate a log from first principals, but by heck i've needed to use them! Originally, books of tables, and slide rules, were the norm, but now its so easy to use a calculator or a computer, fast more consistent and better accuracy. My children never saw log tables or slide rules at school - only calculators, and they started to do certain mathematical exercises for GCSE that I didn't even see until A the older levels.

Reinterpreting your posts, you seem to suggest you should only drive if you understand how to do certain things like changing a wheel, well I'm sorry again but using that principal you would deny the development of the human race. As a race we have constantly developed an idea or understanding, and used that knowledge to spring board other ideas without necessarily have a full grasp of the underlying processes. We constantly use technology without having actually built it, a box of matches, a Biro, a washing machine, a television, a computer etc. Are you saying we should not use such items because we may not know how they work in detail?

You dont need statistics or figures to recognise that conditions on the UK roads are changing and as anyone who regularly uses the roads can tell they are becoming busier all the time. Anyone undertaking any sort of roadside repair on a wheel is definitely exposing themselves to considerable danger, particularly as the work is at the side of the vehicle and means either the vehicle or the person is likely to be in the near path of following vehicles.

The Roadside service providers do a lot of training and they will deliberately use their big colourful vehicle with flashy lights as a temporary barrier, making themselves as obvious as possible to approaching traffic.

Attempting to do the same work without the benefit of a temporary barrier is simply foolhardy, and that is one of the main reasons the officials recommend leaving such repairs to the roadside services. So to that extent it may not be a lack of knowledge but the attainment of good sense to stay safe.

There are other very valid reasons why such work is not done by every driver, In some instances the driver may be disabled, and physically cannot do it.

Over the last few decades, cars have become vastly more complicated, and in some cases unless you have some very specialised diagnostic/reprogramming tools some repairs/maintenance that were straight forward in the past are no longer within the capability of most. I know changing a wheel doesn't fall into that category, but I refer you to my comments above about using technology.

So I know and understand your frustration with the staus quo, I equally recognise that traditional basic skills may not be taught, but there are alternative valid and often safer methods of dealing with the situation. Just because its a new approach does not necessarily make it less valid.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

Been keeping up with this thread without contributing and realising
there’s a “certain” element that has a derisory side to their
dissertations?

Having said that I have had my share of punctures in the van over the
last 35 years, and always changed my own wheels even on the side of the M5 near
Bristol, (with two youngsters in the car ) – not good then but today a different
world with traffic volumes and I suspect faster traffic, but that one was
thirty+ years ago – but I wouldn’t now, not because I need the expert but I do
need his ‘truck’ in the way. (and also so much publicity over the dangers of
being on the hard shoulder stopped at any time nowadays, it’s even recommended
you get over the barrier. Now changing a wheel from there would test me!!)

I’ve changed them on grass and still would, I’ve changed them on single
carriage roads , and still can – but wouldn’t now. Why? Safety. It’s safer with a breakdown truck
parked some yards behind you, again don’t need the expert but need his truck.

(Just had a thought there’s this name that is occurring regularly on
this thread, and I thought this word used to be used more widely than it is now,
so ‘Googled’ it, - and one of its
definitions reads –“To deride or tease with taunting words”)

Guess what that word is?

Nuff said

 

[Sproket]

(Just had a thought there’s this name that is occurring regularly on
this thread, and I thought this word used to be used more widely than it is now,
so ‘Googled’ it, - and one of its
definitions reads –“To deride or tease with taunting words”)

Guess what that word is?

Nuff said

Funny old word spelt the same aswell

 

[Gybe]

Would like to see a photo of your jack in place between the wheels

how to post photos on the forum

Obviously if it's top secret

for the Gents and Ladies of the forum.

Are you familiar with hydraulic bottle jacks Sprocket? If so, why are you taking the ......?

The gap between the tyres of my Al-Ko twin axle is about 85-90 mm and the bottle jack is only about 190 tall and obviously fits easily between the tyres. Unlike the photo above our caravan has one of its shock absorbers visible. The axle fixing points fold under the chassis rails, the holes in the chassis rail, and the shock absorber mounting point combined with the axle mountings provide easy points for reiforcing plates and the lifting point.
If you could manage to pop to you caravan Sprocket and slip a burgundy wine bottle between the tyres and stand it up you'd provide your own answer. The operating tube for the jack is only 20mm tubing and easily sticks out between the fully inflated tyres for leveling on site.
If both my neighbours 4 and 5 year old daughter and son can operate the pump lever of a bottle jack and jack up their dads LWB HT Sprinter Van with ease Dusty Dog, what's the problem? My wife couldn't turn scissor jack handles on a couple of cars we've had, but like the kids she can easily pump a bottle jack handle and lift a car or caravan.

Prof John. I'm really sorry. I just never realised that operating a wheel wrench on four or five wheel nuts or bolts and positioning a jack and operating it was an engineering degree level operation or needed a mass of training or higher Mensa level intelligence.

May be I'm a genius and know one ever told me.

 

[SteveW77]

Would like to see a photo of your jack in place between the wheels

how to post photos on the forum

Obviously if it's top secret

for the Gents and Ladies of the forum.

Are you familiar with hydraulic bottle jacks Sprocket? If so, why are you taking the ......?

The gap between the tyres of my Al-Ko twin axle is about 85-90 mm and the bottle jack is only about 190 tall and obviously fits easily between the tyres. Unlike the photo above our caravan has one of its shock absorbers visible. The axle fixing points fold under the chassis rails, the holes in the chassis rail, and the shock absorber mounting point combined with the axle mountings provide easy points for reiforcing plates and the lifting point.
If you could manage to pop to you caravan Sprocket and slip a burgundy wine bottle between the tyres and stand it up you'd provide your own answer. The operating tube for the jack is only 20mm tubing and easily sticks out between the fully inflated tyres for leveling on site.
If both my neighbours 4 and 5 year old daughter and son can operate the pump lever of a bottle jack and jack up their dads LWB HT Sprinter Van with ease Dusty Dog, what's the problem? My wife couldn't turn scissor jack handles on a couple of cars we've had, but like the kids she can easily pump a bottle jack handle and lift a car or caravan.

Prof John. I'm really sorry. I just never realised that operating a wheel wrench on four or five wheel nuts or bolts and positioning a jack and operating it was an engineering degree level operation or needed a mass of training or higher Mensa level intelligence.

May be I'm a genius and know one ever told me.

I think a few of us have a shrewd idea as to what you are, Genius is not what springs in to my mind.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

I really do not think there is any call for starting to make derogitory remarks about members or thier nick names.

 

[Parksy]

I think that this topic has run it's corse now, there is nothing meaningful to be added to the thread so we'll wait to see if Doug replies to the o.p. in the magazine letters page.