Hi we purchased a caravan on Thursday last week and have been informed today that it has been wiped out by a fire this afternoon which started in a van 4 pitches away. The fire has destroyed 5 vans including ours. Devastated doesn't touch it. We were awaiting the previous owner sending us insurance details to allow Us to insure it but this didn't arrive until Sat eve. We were at the van sorting it out so had no facilities to insure it on Sat. We were just about to insure it today when the fire happened. Can we claim off anyone do you know? The van that started the fire wasn't insured but next door is, it was their gas bottle exploding that ignited ours? Any advice grateful I'm devastated and desperate for help. Thank you xx
Fire Damage - advice needed
- Thread starter rachelharding77
- Start date
Parksy
Moderator
I'm sorry to learn of your misfortune, and hopefully you will receive better advice from other forum members who are more knowledgeable than I am.
I'm assuming that your caravan is a touring caravan and not a static holiday home.
I'd strongly suggest that you take pictures of the damage and the positions of each caravan on the site as soon as possible before they are moved.
Fire regulations state that there should be aminimum of 6 meters between each touring caravan (different regulations apply to static caravans) so it's vital that you establish and gather evidence of the distance between each caravan sidewall or awning.
Was the caravan stored on a touring site? If it was a touring site was it being monitored by a warden or other site employee?
Had you paid a fee for your caravan to be on the site and if so were you informed of any terms and conditions or were there any notices on site?
Where were you when the fire broke out?
Was the fire brigade called? If so did they make a report about what caused the fire and why it spread to neighbouring caravans?
I'm sorry to say that my personal opinion is that you may face an uphill battle to claim from anyone without your own insurance, and if the caravan where the fire started wasn't insured the difficulties increase.
Your best chance might be to claim from the site, especially if you can prove that the caravans were less than 6 metres apart, and they must have been fairly close for the fire to have spread to four caravans.
Were the caravans on marked pitches, hard standings or was any instruction about where to pitch given on arrival?
It's vital that you establish the true facts of the matter, with photographic evidence if possible.
I'm sorry that I can't offer better advice than that, except perhaps to consult a solicitor when you have the facts and the evidence as proof of what took place.
You are aiming to prove liability but if the owner of the first caravan to catch fire couldn't afford insurance then they won't be in a position to pay for the damage done I'm afraid, so you may need to look to the site owner.
I'm assuming that your caravan is a touring caravan and not a static holiday home.
I'd strongly suggest that you take pictures of the damage and the positions of each caravan on the site as soon as possible before they are moved.
Fire regulations state that there should be aminimum of 6 meters between each touring caravan (different regulations apply to static caravans) so it's vital that you establish and gather evidence of the distance between each caravan sidewall or awning.
Was the caravan stored on a touring site? If it was a touring site was it being monitored by a warden or other site employee?
Had you paid a fee for your caravan to be on the site and if so were you informed of any terms and conditions or were there any notices on site?
Where were you when the fire broke out?
Was the fire brigade called? If so did they make a report about what caused the fire and why it spread to neighbouring caravans?
I'm sorry to say that my personal opinion is that you may face an uphill battle to claim from anyone without your own insurance, and if the caravan where the fire started wasn't insured the difficulties increase.
Your best chance might be to claim from the site, especially if you can prove that the caravans were less than 6 metres apart, and they must have been fairly close for the fire to have spread to four caravans.
Were the caravans on marked pitches, hard standings or was any instruction about where to pitch given on arrival?
It's vital that you establish the true facts of the matter, with photographic evidence if possible.
I'm sorry that I can't offer better advice than that, except perhaps to consult a solicitor when you have the facts and the evidence as proof of what took place.
You are aiming to prove liability but if the owner of the first caravan to catch fire couldn't afford insurance then they won't be in a position to pay for the damage done I'm afraid, so you may need to look to the site owner.
I'm sorry to read of your misfortune.
I Will relate an experience that a friend of ours had which might explain a claim solution for you.
Our friend had to stop at a red traffic light on a dual carriage way. He was in the off side lane with two cars in front of him, and a coach in the near side lane.
The lights changed and the cars pulled away more quickly than the coach, and as our friend was just moving ahead of the coach but still within the junction, another car jumped the red light drove into the junction from the offside 'T-boning' our friend pushing him into the front offside corner of the coach. The coach pushed him several meters and into a set of bollards. Fortunately no one was hurt. But because a public transport vehicle was involved the police were called, measurements taken and evidence gathered.
The police were totally in agreement that the driver that jumped the lights was to blame and duly prosecuted. But the insurance was a different matter.
THe highway authority claimed of our friend for the damage to the bollards and sundry costs, because it was our friends car that had collided with them. The Bus company claimed of our friends again because it was his car that collided with the bus.
It was down to our friends insurer to counter claim against the driver of the red light car.
So the president is that these days you can only claim against the party that directly injures or causes your loss - in your case your neighbours caravan. It seems you probably don't have a direct claim against to owner of the first caravan that went on fire.
As Parksy correctly points out, you may have a claim against the site if they have contravened their own site rules such as caravan spacing, or fire spread prevention measures, or those imposed or recommended as best practice by the the licensing authorities.
Just as an aside note, There is nothing stopping you taking out insurance on a caravan even if you don't have all the documents.
I Will relate an experience that a friend of ours had which might explain a claim solution for you.
Our friend had to stop at a red traffic light on a dual carriage way. He was in the off side lane with two cars in front of him, and a coach in the near side lane.
The lights changed and the cars pulled away more quickly than the coach, and as our friend was just moving ahead of the coach but still within the junction, another car jumped the red light drove into the junction from the offside 'T-boning' our friend pushing him into the front offside corner of the coach. The coach pushed him several meters and into a set of bollards. Fortunately no one was hurt. But because a public transport vehicle was involved the police were called, measurements taken and evidence gathered.
The police were totally in agreement that the driver that jumped the lights was to blame and duly prosecuted. But the insurance was a different matter.
THe highway authority claimed of our friend for the damage to the bollards and sundry costs, because it was our friends car that had collided with them. The Bus company claimed of our friends again because it was his car that collided with the bus.
It was down to our friends insurer to counter claim against the driver of the red light car.
So the president is that these days you can only claim against the party that directly injures or causes your loss - in your case your neighbours caravan. It seems you probably don't have a direct claim against to owner of the first caravan that went on fire.
As Parksy correctly points out, you may have a claim against the site if they have contravened their own site rules such as caravan spacing, or fire spread prevention measures, or those imposed or recommended as best practice by the the licensing authorities.
Just as an aside note, There is nothing stopping you taking out insurance on a caravan even if you don't have all the documents.
So sorry to hear of your misfortune and the heartache it brings.
Hope you get it sorted and are back in the fold ASAP.
So the question is for others of us; (Assuming the site is in the clear)
Does caravan 2 claim off his own insurance?
Caravan 3 claims off caravan 2 ? Double wammy for caravan 2?
Perhaps we should ask the site before pitching if ALL caravans on there site are insured?
Perhaps the caravan Insurance companies can start a cover against NON Insured Vans, like some do for cars?
But then the premium would rise!!!!
Hope you get it sorted and are back in the fold ASAP.
So the question is for others of us; (Assuming the site is in the clear)
Does caravan 2 claim off his own insurance?
Caravan 3 claims off caravan 2 ? Double wammy for caravan 2?
Perhaps we should ask the site before pitching if ALL caravans on there site are insured?
Perhaps the caravan Insurance companies can start a cover against NON Insured Vans, like some do for cars?
But then the premium would rise!!!!
Parksy
Moderator
It would be better for all concerned if a nominal basic level of caravan insurance was compulsory.
This would simplify situations like this when a caravan is not hitched to the towing vehicle and is covered by the vehicle insurance for third party claims.
With all due respect to the unfortunate o.p., all caravan owners should take responsibility for their tourers when they are not covered by towing vehicle insurance.
This would simplify situations like this when a caravan is not hitched to the towing vehicle and is covered by the vehicle insurance for third party claims.
With all due respect to the unfortunate o.p., all caravan owners should take responsibility for their tourers when they are not covered by towing vehicle insurance.
Hello Gagakev,
You are not obliged to use your own insurance to lodge a claim against another party. You can simply write to the other party. It is up to the other party if they wish to lodge the claim with their insurance or not, and that can be where the problems can arise, as you may have to resort to going to court to get them to pay up.
For that reason is often easier to use your insurance company to manage the claim as they have the contacts and experience in dealing with such things.
Don't forget that most insurers now ask if you "have suffered a loss" rather than "have you made a claim" so even if you don't use your insurer you may still be obliged to inform them of the events.
You are not obliged to use your own insurance to lodge a claim against another party. You can simply write to the other party. It is up to the other party if they wish to lodge the claim with their insurance or not, and that can be where the problems can arise, as you may have to resort to going to court to get them to pay up.
For that reason is often easier to use your insurance company to manage the claim as they have the contacts and experience in dealing with such things.
Don't forget that most insurers now ask if you "have suffered a loss" rather than "have you made a claim" so even if you don't use your insurer you may still be obliged to inform them of the events.
Damian
Moderator
Whilst the OP has stated the van was on a pitch, it is not clear whether this means a site pitch or was it in storage on its "pitch".
With 5 vans being damaged, it seems that it may be a storage situation.
Perhaps the OP can confirm the location.
If it was a storage situation then other issues may arise regarding how vans are left in storage, with many now requiring gas cylinders to be removed from stored vans.
With 5 vans being damaged, it seems that it may be a storage situation.
Perhaps the OP can confirm the location.
If it was a storage situation then other issues may arise regarding how vans are left in storage, with many now requiring gas cylinders to be removed from stored vans.
ProfJohnL said:
Hi Prof, and we pay them for that reason too
Whilst I have sympathy for the OP, i have to agree with your first post that they could have still obtained insurance cover.
It is a difficult one. If the original fire was started negligently then there is a claim against the owner but you need to know the cause which can probably be obtained by getting a copy of the fire brigade report but they will charge you for it. Prof John is I am afraid wrong. The caravan that passed the fire on to you would only have to show that the caravan before it in line caused it to catch fire and they would have the same defence. Only the first caravan is pursuable in reality and negligence by the owner would be the only basis for a claim. I can only assume the bus company he refers to did not know of the third vehicle or simply wrote to the owners of both vehicles leaving them to sort out responsibility.
As said earlier you also need to check if the site safety rules were met. The general rule is 6 meters separation and see if this was met and if fire safety equipment worked. Good luck but I think it will be an uphill struggle.
Not sure what documentation you wanted before insuring but for most policies all you need is the CRiS or chassis number which is on the caravan.
As said earlier you also need to check if the site safety rules were met. The general rule is 6 meters separation and see if this was met and if fire safety equipment worked. Good luck but I think it will be an uphill struggle.
Not sure what documentation you wanted before insuring but for most policies all you need is the CRiS or chassis number which is on the caravan.
Must admit on reading the description I had taken it to be a site as a fire is more likely in a caravan being used but the spread is more in keeping with a storage area. My feeling is that given the owner of the caravan was not insured the claim against him would be difficult unless he has property worth chasing and even then you have to show negligence. As for the site owner, if it is storage then recovery would be very difficult, as they would be far closer together. The general rule with gas bottles is they must be off rather than removed and that meets fire regulations so I cannot see non removal being good enough.
If it could be shown that the bottle that exploded was not shut off and it was on a storage site there might be enough to get a claim off the ground, but given the fire had already spread along the line then the OP's caravan might have burned out anyway so even that argument looks dicey.
If it could be shown that the bottle that exploded was not shut off and it was on a storage site there might be enough to get a claim off the ground, but given the fire had already spread along the line then the OP's caravan might have burned out anyway so even that argument looks dicey.
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