First time Germany

[Alex_374373826]

We have toured fairly extensively in France and now wish to try Germany.
I have travelled in Germany though many years ago. We fancied the Black Forest, Frieburg area but know nothing. We will use ASCI sites. I have looked up the Romantic Road but cannot really get the gist of the places to visit.
Can anybody give us pointers in some direction? Intend to travel from Calais. Only have just over 2 weeks and will be going in September 2011.

Thank you

 

[PeterC1]

Hi,
Black Forest is great (for eating, drinking, walking, mountain biking, spa's, etc, etc)...we've stayed a couple of times at Camping Belchenblick , Staufen near Frieburg, also Camping Munstertal. Both sites are in the Munstertal valley, which is a really nice place. Staufen is a lovely town about 15 miles south of Frieburg....plently of places to get coffee and Black Forest gateaux! Also, because I avoid school hol's I don't book the sites...which you also shouldn't need to do in September.
Cheers!

 

[Easyvanner]

Check out towing laws for Germany.
They have strange speed regs for caravans with and without shock absorbers.
We used a Dutch friends caravan last year and we could drive at a higher speed in Germany as it has the right approval.
Not sure that anyone seemed to bother as plenty passed us.
But with a British outfit

 

[Lutz]

Unless the caravan has been officially approved for towing at 100km/h and has a sticker on the back as proof, the speed limit in Germany is the same as almost everywhere on the Continent except France and Belgium, i.e. 80km/h. Shock absorbers are just one condition of several that must be fulfilled if you want to tow at the higher speed.
Another destination in Germany worth thinking about because it's not too far to go and yet pretty is the Moselle valley from the Luxemburg border to Koblenz.

 

[Alex_374373826]

Thank you all for your input.
I feel some research based on this coming on.

 

[gm4pgv]

We also visited camping Belchenblick in germany this year, this was our first visit to Germany and we were completely enchanted with the country and the people, so friendly and helpful! The Black Forest area will leave you breathless it is such a beautiful area.

 

[Woody3]

If Freiburg suits you and you don't want to venture too far east or spend too much money (Germany is relatively expensive) consider going to a French site across the Rhine, somewhere around Colmar or Mulhouse. Sites tend to be on the fewer side in Germany and you will find many have difficulty with English. On the other hand French sites are bountiful in quantity, are usually well equipped, IME tend to be cheaper, and most can handle some English.

Colmar is towards the southern end of the Alsace Wine Route and September is harvest time. We have just come back having had 8 days at the municipal site in Obernai, and a great time it was. Around 20-22C most days but hot (burning) in the sun, almost no rain. OK Obernai is a bit further north, but if you want to sample Germany without the cost then I can highly recommend it. All of the staff speak good English - indeed the manger was a French teaching assistant at Dudley Grammar School in her earlier days so she even swears in English. They also have good fast free wi-fi.

If you go that way and want to avoid the German autobahns, go Calsis A25 to Lille, then onto the Belgian autoroute to Charleroi and Namur, down through the Ardennes to Luxembourg, then the free autoroute to Nancy, across to Severne, and down to Obernai. DO NOT go through the St Die tunnel - nice as it is €16.40 is pricey!! The municipal at Ypres, and the Lux C&CC site at Koechelschur are good stop-overs, and well facilitated. (Ypres needs booking as does Obernai; lux does not take bookings.) Ypres to Lux is about 200 miles and 5 hours; Lux to Obernai is about 130 miles and takes 2.5-3hours.

As a final note, the Bugatti factory is at Moleshiem a little north of Obernai and the have a 'Festival Bugatti' in Moleshiem on the first Fri-Sun of September. Anything from 40-80 vintage cars on show plus the latest Veyron (or two!) Highly recommended.

 

[Alex_374373826]

Just looking at the map (naive perhaps), we intended to travel via Luxembourg, Metz then to Frieburg, in order to avoid the tolls in France. Then back via Gerardmer, Verdun and back to Caen to take ferry to Portsmouth. We live in Cornwall, so wanted to get the most out of our holiday.
However, I asked the question as there are so many people on here that I would be foolish not to.
Our German is dire but our French is school days stuff. But willing to have a go.
Thank you all again

 

[Lutz]

If you have any specific questions you can write me an email. I live in Germany, near Wiesbaden and just a stone's throw away from the junction of the A3/A66.

 

[Alex_374373826]

Again thank you all. The trip is almost a year away and we have yet to survive the clocks going back and the winter.
Thank you Lutz, I will consider my questions, when thinning out from the Xmas pud

 

[Lutz]

Strange to hear someone say that they have had more of a problem with speaking English in Germany than in France. I think most people's experience would be quite the opposite. You will find few of the younger generation in Germany that don't speak any English at all. Above all, most are keen to have a chance to practise their English, too, which is something one seldom comes across in France.
As for Germany being relatively expensive, I find that also difficult to understand. Certainly, Germany has some of the lowest prices for food and drink in the EU and even the prices for campsites are, on average, lower than in France (25 Euros versus 34 Euros a night, according to a comparison test in a magazine that I read). France has much bigger variances in price. It has cheaper sites, but also the most expensive on the entire Continent, too.
And why should one want to avoid German autobahns?
The above seems a very biased reply to me.

 

[DianneT]

I agree with Lutz that is a very biased view of Germany. Having been visiting the Country for over 30 years and for long spells with the
Caravan for the last 7 of these. We have never ever had a problem with anyone not speaking English and the Brits are always made very welcome in the Country by I should think about 90% of the Germans.
In the latter years it has been the cheapest in Europe for food and everything I can think of including fuel is very reasonable. With regards to sites we mostly chooose to stop at ACSI Camping Card sites most of which are 4 and 5 star at 13 or 15 euro's a night which are far in front of the French or English sites we have ever visited in quality, services and price.
The Autobahns are Free of extremely good quality and German Drivers are very good and considerate and obey all their rules especially not driving in the middle or fast lane when their is room in the inside or middle lane as the Drivers in the UK do. The Rhine Mosel and Ifel arears are very nice, with loads of interesting places to visit and Luxemburg is a good day out more French than German though but very cheap Fuel.
If you want to read more on Germany see my Germany info page on my website as in my signature below.

 

[Woody3]

Perhaps I should explain the basis of my comments.
Firstly I would have to disagree about the price of fuel - if German is so cheap why do Germans cross into France/Lux/Belgium to fill up? Diesel a few weeks ago was around €1.10/L in France but around €1.16-€1.22 in Germany - and I'm talking street/supermarket prices here, not motorway.
Because of the change of rules in Germany, unless your 'van has the German test certificate (similar to M.o.T.) which permits 100Kph, all caravans are limited to 80Kph, which makes Autobahn travel difficult as one often gets overtaken by lorries limited to 90 and cannot overtake many lorries without exceeding the limit except on (up) hills.
Germany, IME experience does not have to big out-of-town supermarkets that France has, so apart from Lidl and Aldi there is not much competition, hence prices are generally higher.
As for site prices; in France the highest we paid was €17.20/night for van+car+2. We don't want sites with all of the pools/restaurants, etc, just somewhere to pitch with all mod cons and local areas of interest. We rarely eat out so I cannot compare restaurant prices which is what I think Lutz was alluding to. Our experience of Germany - which I have to say we prefer in may ways to France and the Benelux - is that outside the main tourist destinations sites are few and far between. I accept that most that you find have good or superb facilities, but if you cannot find one.......
Language? We have stayed at about 6-8 sites over the last three of four years and with one exception NONE of the staff spoke English or were prepared to try. A good example, slightly off topic, is the museum at Colditz. This castle was the prison of mainly English-speaking PoWs so one would expect mainly English speaking visitors. When we went a few years back none of the staff spoke English (and they were mainly young) and there was only one brouchure in English everything else was in German. On the other hand many French sites have someone who can manage some English and they will always meet you half way (talking in simple terms) if you try conversing in French.

No, sorry Lutz, but much as I do like Germany and certainly prefer to drive there (compared with France) I must disagree with you as I still think that for tourers France is on balance cheaper. For the record, Italy is even cheaper at least in the North!!

 

[Lutz]

The same magazine that quoted an average price of 25 Euros a night for a pitch in Germany and 34 Euros in France lists an average price of 41 Euros in Italy, making that, according to them, the most expensive (on average) country for caravanning in the whole of Europe. I can't confirm those figures, but I have no reason to suppose that they are way off the mark.
I think that you were just unlucky regarding the inability to communicate in English, or else you only dealt with older people who didn't have English as a compulsory foreign language at school, as is the case today. You mentioned Colditz which is, of course, in eastern Germany, where Russian was the main foreign language until the early 90's. One would definitely have less of a problem in the west.
As you correctly state, Aldi and Lidl, while widely prevalent even in the smallest towns, generally have relatively modest floor space. However, other chains, like Real, Toom, Globus, etc. can be compared much more closely with the French hypermarchés for size and their prices compete with Aldi and Lidl.
Petrol prices in Germany are very volatile. They go up and down like a yoyo by as much as 8 Eurocent a litre, sometimes even during the course of a day, so it is perfectly possible that France is cheaper at certain times, but this can equally be the other way round, too. Luxemburg is a special case and is always cheaper than all the adjacent countries.
You're statement about a change of rules in Germany suggests that the speed limit was brought down compared to neighbouring countries unless the caravan is specifically approved for 100km/h. In fact, quite the opposite is the case. The speed limit for such caravans was actually raised compared to the 80km/h limit which applies in most countries like The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, to name just a few. Besides, the speed limit for lorries is 80km/h, too, so there is no reason to be constantly overtaken by them.

 

[DianneT]

We went to Colditz in 2005 and were taken around by a wonderful guide with 3 other British guys. The guide spoke perfect English and spent twice as much time with us as the tour should have lasted. We were most impressed.
We have never had a problem with the Autobahn speed limits with the van on. The speed allowed is exactly the same as most countries in Europe. As for fuel Diesel is not expensive. It was not much more than Belgium when we were there in April/June.
France was the most expensive. Luxemburg of course is duty free so all the French and Germans go into there to fill up like we do.
Other than Luxemburg, Austria was the cheapest for Fuel when we were there in May/June 1.08 euro's a litre for Diesel.
All the supermarkets Lutz mentioned are very cheap we often fill up the car on the Mosel at Globus and shop in the supermarket.
Tooms is a marvellous outlet for variety and price and we have found others Lutz has not mentioned.
Italy is much more expensive than Germany with everything but if you go out of season and have the ACSI Card you have a very large selection of sites all over the Europe for 11,13,15 euro's per night at unstarred 3,4 and 5 star sites too You cannot beat that..

 

[Duglass]

Alex,
We have just returned from a month in Germany and our experience agrees with everything Lutz and DianneT have advised. Our trip started from Dunkirque with the first stop at a camp site right on the banks of the Rhine in Koln (Cologne). I wanted to try my few words of German but, no need, Herr Martin speaks excellent english and was friendly and helpful. Koln centre, with magnificent cathederal, was a fascinating three mile walk along the footpath on the river bank.
Our next stop was in Thuringia at Paulfeld Camping near Fredrichschroda. Once again, perfect english and friendly helpful people, not just the staff but other campers too. This site is a good centre for visiting the Wartburg castle in Eisenach, Erfurt, Jena (Ziess Optics) etc. In the market place in Erfurt we were part of a jovial group of people which formed with a common bond - enjoying a charcoal grilled Thuringian bratwurst. Absolutely delicious!
I could go on all night but suffice to say. We went on to Dresden, Prague, back into Germany towards Nurnberg and Murnersee near Schwandorf. Then we went south to the Bodensee (Lake Constance) and stayed amidst the apple orchards just a few km from the lake. The weather was warm and sunny so we enjoyed 11 days there. So much to see and do. Eventually made our way back through Luxembourg with a couple of days at the Chateaux du Gand Spette. English was spoken at all of the camp sites we visited.
Autobahns are excellent and although we were limited to the 80 kph it wasn't a problem - you just keep the same speed as the trucks. The actual speed was about 53 mph and it was easy to keep this with vehicles about 50 to 100 m apart. Very few trucks passed us. Most hills, which cause the heavy vehicles to slow, have crawler lanes which are used so, if you have the power, you maintain your 80 kph. Also good for the fuel economy - we managed an average 32 mpg for the 2,800 miles with a 3.0 lt diesel.
There is a tremendous range of food and everything else available. You simply make your choice, be it Aldi, Netto, the ones Lutz mentioned or "ac" where we found a bewildering array of top quality food and produce. Eating out is pretty good too!
I wish the holiday had been longer. However, I still have 8 Thuringian bratwurst, a few bottles of the most excellent beer and the forecast for Saturday is good!!
By far the biggest negative of the entire trip was the misery of the M25, M1 and M6 driving home on a Friday.
Time to get planning Alex. The whole of the Black Forrest (Schwartzwald) and all the way south (over the Swiss border) to the Rhine falls at Schaffhausen would make a very interesting and beautiful trip. Also, if you have a chance, have a look at the lovely picturesque town of Stein am Rhine.
All the best
Doug

 

[DavidKlyne]

We have toured quite extensively in Germany over the years and like the country and the people. As far a fuel is concern I don't think I have ever found a supermarket selling it like you get in France and th UK. Also I found the the price did not vary a great deal from place to place, although I would accept that we have always found it more expensive than France/Belgium/Austria and at about the same level as we pay in the UK. As to speed limits we found that we did have trouble with trucks if we tried to tow at 80kms regardless of what the truck speed limit is! We did the same as a lot of Dutch caravanners do and just kept to a steady 85/90kms which solved the problem. I appreciate that towing at these speeds is not legal but providing you are sensible and don't attract attention a blind eye seems to be turned but there is a risk! As to Germans speaking English I have always been very impressed with how many of them do. Maragaret and I have even been at the meat counter at a supermarket discussion what we should have and a voice from the other side offers help. We are not fans of the Aldi type supermarkets and prefer the likes of REWE. However my experience further east is as Lutz suggests, English is not so widespread. We only go out of the main season and tend to use the ACSI Card or Camping Cheques so site fees are very reasonable but even where we were unable to do that, for example Berlin and Dresden I don't recall the prices being massively higher but of course its not high season. Germany is an excellent place to visit and we are thinking about another extended trip next year with perhaps a dip into Denmark.
David

 

[Lutz]

On the whole, unless speed limits have been specifically signposted, speeds are not normally checked in Germany. In almost 40 years in the country I have never seen a speed camera installed along a delimited stretch of motorway. That is why it is unusual for trucks to stick religiously to the 80km/h limit and most caravan outfits don't either. Cameras are very common in road work areas, though. Note that cars towing anything are usually prohibited from overtaking there, too, but this is always signposted.

 

[Alex_374373826]

HI Du Glas,,
Thank you for your comment along with others.
Which site did you use near Koln? We were using ACSI this year and I have looked on their network and can see no sites.
Is there any particular network or book you are using.
Having done a bit more research, I think we will travel the way you suggest, then Wurtzberg, Black Forest, Gerardmer, Verdun and perhaps back via Cherbourg. Thus site ideas are a good focal point.

Alex

 

[DianneT]

Personally I would not stop at Wurtzburg, even tho we found a good ACSI site there it is not such a pretty area as lower down the Romantiche Strasse. We always stop at or near the old town of Rothenburg-an-der-Tauber. It is a wonderful, fairytale walled town. In 2008, the last time we visited there, we stopped at a site in athe lovely little village of Detwang, just outside Rothenburg. The site was not ACSI CC , but excellent and Toilets, Showers, Pitches plus the Owners were wonderful. Once you have visited Rothenburg you will never forget it. The is some info and pictures on my site in Trip 5 in 2008 and also in the Germany info page on my web site.
I could not see a site near to Koln either but there well may be in the 2011 book that comes out in December. I noticed when I ordered mine there will be over 2,00 sites included. If we do not use the CC I go onto the main ACSI program I have and also Caravan Club Europe 2.

 

[Duglass]

Hello Alex,

The site we used in Koln was Campingplatz der Stadt Köln (www.camping-koeln.de) Unfortunately, it's not an ACSI site but it is in the CC's Caravan Europe Vol 2. and not too expensive.
It was our only experience of "reverse polarity" on the hook-up.

DianneT mentioned Rothenburg as a good place to visit. I think she must be right as we were also advised to go to Rothenburg by our German camping neighbours. Next time no doubt!
Regards

Doug