I am not aware that the Italians require 'Long Vehicle' plates. Are you sure you're not confusing it with Spain?
It's got nothing to do with the EU, Scotch Lad. It's purely a French issue. Actually, the 90km/h limit is still more than most European countries. The vast majority have an 80km/h speed limit for trailers, regardless of weight.
What is the difference? We all know the EU is the private 'club' of France and Germany with the rest of us merely there to pay lip service, and money.
It will be interesting to see how many 'complaints' are posted in the various countries. French roads are usually of better quality and have lower traffic densities, so are in the main safer than certainly here. Of course the annual death race in late July and August, si the exception.
It will be interesting to see how many 'complaints' are posted in the various countries. French roads are usually of better quality and have lower traffic densities, so are in the main safer than certainly here. Of course the annual death race in late July and August, si the exception.
Private club or not, I fail to see what that has to do with national speed limits. If the EU were a 'private club' of France and Germany, one would expect them to have the same speed limits, but they aren't.
Every time you see Sarko and Angie together you soon know they are joined at the 'hip'. They remind me of those 2 characters in Madagasgar, the hippo and the giraffe, but I won't say who is who.
Anyway, returning to the subject of this thread, with a handful of exceptions, 80km/h is the standard speed limit for caravans in Europe.
I'm in two minds what to do for my trip in June. I know that they aren't enforcing this at present but knowing my luck they'll start with me. It's ok saying contact your MEP if you get stopped but faced with a ticket waving cop you really don't have a lot of option but pay up.
You really have no need to worry. Even the Caravan Club, who started the whole issue, write: "we have been contacted by various members who live in France advising us that this requirement is being ignored, and the French police are not interested in enforcing it."
Someone elsewhere stated that this law has been there for years. I don't think this is so. Ive been towing in France for many years and have towed at the appropriate maximum limit on autoroutes but on long downhill inclines have observed signs for caravans not to exceed 90km/h which are then cancelled at the end of the stretch. If this law had been there the signs would have been unnecessary.
Nowhere have I seen any "official" explanation for the change.I have read that it is because the French police have been concerned about blowouts on caravans whose tyres do not have a high enough speed rating for the higher limits in France. The tyres on my van are P rated i.e. up to 150km/h, well above the French limits. so I'd be happy for them to check my tyres and send me on my way.
I'm amazed that this is all so vague and woolly. If I hadn't happened to read the article in the CC mag I would have not even given it a thought. Shouldn't VOSA or some agency have notices in caravan dealers and accessory shops to advise people of the facts. Not everyone belong to the CC or some other organisation.
It seems to me that it has nothing to do with what your towing - it's the figures on the plate in your car that they go by. On my car they are max total weight 2180kg + towing limit 1800kg = 3980kg. It actually states a max train weight of 3980kg. That's above the 3.5t limit. These are figures the police would have so, they could see me towing on the autoroute above 90km/h and fine me. so, whether I tow a big twin axle or a small luggage trailer I'm restricted to 90 and 80 ?
g
Nowhere have I seen any "official" explanation for the change.I have read that it is because the French police have been concerned about blowouts on caravans whose tyres do not have a high enough speed rating for the higher limits in France. The tyres on my van are P rated i.e. up to 150km/h, well above the French limits. so I'd be happy for them to check my tyres and send me on my way.
I'm amazed that this is all so vague and woolly. If I hadn't happened to read the article in the CC mag I would have not even given it a thought. Shouldn't VOSA or some agency have notices in caravan dealers and accessory shops to advise people of the facts. Not everyone belong to the CC or some other organisation.
It seems to me that it has nothing to do with what your towing - it's the figures on the plate in your car that they go by. On my car they are max total weight 2180kg + towing limit 1800kg = 3980kg. It actually states a max train weight of 3980kg. That's above the 3.5t limit. These are figures the police would have so, they could see me towing on the autoroute above 90km/h and fine me. so, whether I tow a big twin axle or a small luggage trailer I'm restricted to 90 and 80 ?
g
The 90km/h speed limit signs on downhill stretches of French motorways apply to those outfits under 3.5 tonnes which are otherwise not restricted to 90km/h.
Blowouts are not an issue because virtually all caravans have tyres with at least an 'N' rating (up to 140km/h).
Much of the confusion regarding the need for stickers would have been avoided if those that published the information would have disclosed the source.
The issue regarding speed limits it not new (refer to a similar thread which started in June last year in the Touring and Tenting Forum:
http://www.touringandtenting.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34976-french-speed-limits/)
Blowouts are not an issue because virtually all caravans have tyres with at least an 'N' rating (up to 140km/h).
Much of the confusion regarding the need for stickers would have been avoided if those that published the information would have disclosed the source.
The issue regarding speed limits it not new (refer to a similar thread which started in June last year in the Touring and Tenting Forum:
http://www.touringandtenting.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34976-french-speed-limits/)
ps: The interpretation of French law that I have is that the speed limit on motorways is 130km/h if the plated gross train weight of the outfit is less than or equal to 3.5 tonnes, 110km/h if the gross train weight is over 3.5 tonnes but the plated GVW of the towcar under 3.5 tonnes (Article 413-8-1 dated 02.08.2008) and 90km/h if the GVW of the towcar is over 3.5 tonnes (Article 413-8 dated 31.12.2006).
re whether this is a new law or not I quote from the Caravan Club sites guide Caravan Europe 1, 2007.
in the France section Speed Limits - Outside Built-up Areas it says:-
" General speed limits are as follows:
- On normal roads 90 km/h (56 mph)
- On dual carriageways separated by a central reservation
110 km/h (68mph)
- On motorways 130 km/h (81 mph)
These limits also apply to private cars towing a trailer or caravan, provided the total weight does nor exceed 3,500 kg. Vehicles over 3,500 kg are classed as goods vehicles and the speed limit on motorways is 110 km/h (68 mph) while on dual carriageways it is 80 - 100 km/h (50 - 60 mph) and on other roads 80 km/h (50 mph)."
So, according to that , at that time, even over 3.5t I was able to tow at 110 km/h on the motorway. Has there been any change since then?
g
Yes, "g". If the plated gross train weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes there has always been a 110km/h restriction in France. The confusion has only resulted in the conditions surrounding the 90km/h limit.
Greetings,
On the back of our outfit enroute to Spain it looked like an explosion in a paint factory what with the long vehicle plates and the 80 and 90 stickers.
I'll repeat what I said on another forum with regard to the argument as to whether to put on the 'Long Vehicle plates'
If you are confident that you can argue your way out of an instant fine (whether correctly imposed or not) by a member of a foreign police force in his or her own language, then go ahead and ignore their laws.
Me, I'll put the stickers/plates on and avoid the potential for confrontation.
On the back of our outfit enroute to Spain it looked like an explosion in a paint factory what with the long vehicle plates and the 80 and 90 stickers.
I'll repeat what I said on another forum with regard to the argument as to whether to put on the 'Long Vehicle plates'
If you are confident that you can argue your way out of an instant fine (whether correctly imposed or not) by a member of a foreign police force in his or her own language, then go ahead and ignore their laws.
Me, I'll put the stickers/plates on and avoid the potential for confrontation.
Trouble is that nobody seems to know exactly what the law is. Everyone has a different interpretation and even two local French organisations are (or at least were) in disagreement.
I go along with Del, easier to fit all the bits and bobs than get delayed and fined by the French and Spanish cops... still don't understand what happened to the European laws that should be the same in each country?
Be warned that 80/90 stickers for France (should they really be needed) or the "Long Vehicle" plates for Spain are, strictly speaking, illegal in other countries. It's pointless trying to turn your outfit into one that meets all regulations everywhere because you can't. Just make sure you fulfil those where experience has shown that problems could arise because they are actually being enforced, such as the Spanish "Long Vehicle" plates, for example.
G,
I would not trust everything that the CC, or C&CC say. The definitive word is in the varoius national regulations.I have been towing in France and Europe for many years and have had no problems, albeit even when I had a light outfit I did not tow at the French national Autoroute speed limit. I have a strong sense of self-preservation. An outfit at 60mph will be safer than one at 80mph when things go wrong. Just on kinetic energy considerations alone you carry around 50% less energy at 60mph, than at 80mph. So if the unexpected occurs at 60mph your belongings will be spread over a smaller area, and so will you!( All other things being equal)
I've seen loads of British vehicles without GB stickers or europlates getting off the ferry or out of the tunnel in France and straight on to the autoroute without any check whatsoever.
Nevertheless,we're told by the motoring and caravanning organisations they are a legal requirement.
Get involved in an accident or a traffic offence and, who knows, it might be a different story.
I think better safe than sorry with the speed stickers.
g
Nevertheless,we're told by the motoring and caravanning organisations they are a legal requirement.
Get involved in an accident or a traffic offence and, who knows, it might be a different story.
I think better safe than sorry with the speed stickers.
g
I guess it all depends if you have legal assistance or not. If you do, it may be worth forcing the issue, otherwise it would probably be prudent to pay up and save yourself the inconvenience.
I'm in the middle of legal action arising from a holiday abroad at the moment, but as the insurance has agreed that I've got a good case, they are covering all costs and I can leave it in the hands of a local solicitor that they have selected for me without any further involvement on my part. Anyway, although things aren't sorted out yet, progress is being made and it's already got to the next higher court.
I'm in the middle of legal action arising from a holiday abroad at the moment, but as the insurance has agreed that I've got a good case, they are covering all costs and I can leave it in the hands of a local solicitor that they have selected for me without any further involvement on my part. Anyway, although things aren't sorted out yet, progress is being made and it's already got to the next higher court.
HI,we are going to france june 1,we have bought the stickers,just in case we need them we will keep them in the car.ALL THE BEST ALAN P/T
Well we have just returned from our 2 month trek around a large part of France WITHOUT stickers and have encountered no problems. In fact I have not seen one trailer/caravan with them and that includes French registered so I think there was a lot of scaremongering going on.
Have just returned from a month in France. Only saw 1 unit with stickers (it was French)
I did feel that with the stickers on I was not being pushed by other vehicles to go faster than the 80/90, as has happened in the past
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