Steve,would you kindly point out the reg that stops me certifying my own work.I have always fitted and certified my own work, two gas fires in this house,both when CORGI were running it and I do not recall being advised anything was changing.I am at Coventry City College from next Tuesday for training and reassessment and I will raise this with them.
I have asked Gas Safe register for clarification on self assessment and self certification by engineers. I got what I call the usual "closed shop" reply of "take the matter up with HSE". So I have.
I have logged a formal public concern report with the HSE midlads office today and will now await their response.
I'm sure they will respond quickly as Gas Safety will be in the top 5 of their safety concerns.
I'll keep you posted on what happens.
I have logged a formal public concern report with the HSE midlads office today and will now await their response.
I'm sure they will respond quickly as Gas Safety will be in the top 5 of their safety concerns.
I'll keep you posted on what happens.
Damian
Moderator
Gas Safe is run by the HSE.
Gas Safe, strangely, have gas safety as Number One of their priorities, not one in a list of 5
Gas Safe, strangely, have gas safety as Number One of their priorities, not one in a list of 5
Purely a figure of speach Damien.
When I had our engineering company Worcester HSE office used our company as a role model for small engineering businesses to follow. You see, we worked very closely with Herefordshire Group Training Association and every year we took on teenagers and youths who wanted a training based engineering work placement. We often gave guided tour's to other company's wishing to get involved in training yougsters.
I can still remember the day that Joy Adams came to spot check us and inadvertantly parked in the neighboring company's car park. The manager F'd her up one side down the other for parking in his carpark and not ours. Not realy the right thing to do to a women's rugby player or a HSE inspector. She did a tour of his factory and found neumerous HSE infringements. Then she came to see us. We had one infringement. Namely an out of print accident book, which still had empty pages left. That was the level of accidents we had. As a brass turned part's manufacturer we had several incidents of swarf in the eyes. I had conducted a full and thorough investigation and discovered that most of the incidents related to operatives wiping their forehead on their overall sleeve without checking the cleanlyness of the sleeve first. To prevent this, I had air conditioning installed and provided each operator with a sealable bag of face wipes. She was well impressed with our approach to health & safety and our willingness to work with both HSE and HGTA to make a safe workplace for school leavers.
When I had our engineering company Worcester HSE office used our company as a role model for small engineering businesses to follow. You see, we worked very closely with Herefordshire Group Training Association and every year we took on teenagers and youths who wanted a training based engineering work placement. We often gave guided tour's to other company's wishing to get involved in training yougsters.
I can still remember the day that Joy Adams came to spot check us and inadvertantly parked in the neighboring company's car park. The manager F'd her up one side down the other for parking in his carpark and not ours. Not realy the right thing to do to a women's rugby player or a HSE inspector. She did a tour of his factory and found neumerous HSE infringements. Then she came to see us. We had one infringement. Namely an out of print accident book, which still had empty pages left. That was the level of accidents we had. As a brass turned part's manufacturer we had several incidents of swarf in the eyes. I had conducted a full and thorough investigation and discovered that most of the incidents related to operatives wiping their forehead on their overall sleeve without checking the cleanlyness of the sleeve first. To prevent this, I had air conditioning installed and provided each operator with a sealable bag of face wipes. She was well impressed with our approach to health & safety and our willingness to work with both HSE and HGTA to make a safe workplace for school leavers.
Damian
Moderator
Sorry, but I fail to see what any of the above posting has to do with your statement that there is a rule somewhere stopping a certified Gas Safe engineer etc etc etc from certifying his own work?
I dont see what an engineering company from years ago has to do with the question of what rule, what regulation are you saying is in force.
I dont see what an engineering company from years ago has to do with the question of what rule, what regulation are you saying is in force.
I thought a little polite chatter was worth sharing, after all I thought practical caravan forum was about being friendly towards each other. Perhaps I'm wrong.
I'm now awaiting the midlands area HSE investigations and deliberations with GAS Safe as the initial phone call I had from HSE was basically saying that they wanted to confirm with GAS SAFE that the senario had been covered. It seems my question about self certification has stirred their honey pot somewhat.
I'm now awaiting the midlands area HSE investigations and deliberations with GAS Safe as the initial phone call I had from HSE was basically saying that they wanted to confirm with GAS SAFE that the senario had been covered. It seems my question about self certification has stirred their honey pot somewhat.
Damian
Moderator
A little polite chatter is always welcome on the forum , in the right place.
In this instance, chatter about what you did, or did not, in an engineering place has no relevance to the topic, and in paticular the staement made by you, and I quote:
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"There is a regulation in place for Electricians, Gas engineers, MOT testers, passenger carrying boat charter owners and light aircraft owners, that states that, they are not allowed to self certify any property belonging to themselves."
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Having asked which regulation you are quoting you take the topic off at a tangent, then say you have contacted Gas Safe and HSE but have not given the information you so clearly knew, or appeared to know, and should be able to give that information without having to wait for anyone.
You then say Gas Safe are a closed shop, and gave an answer that you did not like.
Gas Safe is the regulating body for Gas Engineers and have a very strict inspection regime in place for Engineers.
Gas Engineers have to abide by a very demanding set of rules, not only GSIUR's, H&S, BS, EN, but also manufacturers rules for fitting and inspection and service.
Unlike Electricians, Gas Safe Engineers have to completely undergo full training and assessment every 5 years, at considerable cost, not just updates.
In this instance, chatter about what you did, or did not, in an engineering place has no relevance to the topic, and in paticular the staement made by you, and I quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is a regulation in place for Electricians, Gas engineers, MOT testers, passenger carrying boat charter owners and light aircraft owners, that states that, they are not allowed to self certify any property belonging to themselves."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having asked which regulation you are quoting you take the topic off at a tangent, then say you have contacted Gas Safe and HSE but have not given the information you so clearly knew, or appeared to know, and should be able to give that information without having to wait for anyone.
You then say Gas Safe are a closed shop, and gave an answer that you did not like.
Gas Safe is the regulating body for Gas Engineers and have a very strict inspection regime in place for Engineers.
Gas Engineers have to abide by a very demanding set of rules, not only GSIUR's, H&S, BS, EN, but also manufacturers rules for fitting and inspection and service.
Unlike Electricians, Gas Safe Engineers have to completely undergo full training and assessment every 5 years, at considerable cost, not just updates.
I'm not sure how a bottle of butane and one of propane connected together would behave? I suspect you would only get propane at the burners.
What I do know is propane and butane are regularly mixed together on the continent and sold as Autogas in a 60/40 ratio.
This became a problem for one lady who rang me in desperation? she was stuck high in the Alps freezing with a full bottle of gas?!
What it turned out to be was, see was refilling the bottles at the local garage using the above ratio, being so cold, only the propane was gassing off leaving the bottle 40% full of useless butane. 'Refilling' the 60% of space in the bottle only added so much more useable propane until finally the bottle was 100% butane!!
So regardless of the rules or probably one good reason for them is clear, butane and propane do not mix and therefore don't work under all situations.
Note, Autogas is delivered to the engine as a liquid and heated so gasses mixing is not an issue.
One other thing and to throw in a spanner!, I'm not sure about so called 'Patiogas'?, I was under the illusion this is also a 60/40 mix?
What I do know is propane and butane are regularly mixed together on the continent and sold as Autogas in a 60/40 ratio.
This became a problem for one lady who rang me in desperation? she was stuck high in the Alps freezing with a full bottle of gas?!
What it turned out to be was, see was refilling the bottles at the local garage using the above ratio, being so cold, only the propane was gassing off leaving the bottle 40% full of useless butane. 'Refilling' the 60% of space in the bottle only added so much more useable propane until finally the bottle was 100% butane!!
So regardless of the rules or probably one good reason for them is clear, butane and propane do not mix and therefore don't work under all situations.
Note, Autogas is delivered to the engine as a liquid and heated so gasses mixing is not an issue.
One other thing and to throw in a spanner!, I'm not sure about so called 'Patiogas'?, I was under the illusion this is also a 60/40 mix?
Hi, Many thanks for all who replied to clarify.
I'm sure the debate of gas mixtures etc may still go on
I'm sure the debate of gas mixtures etc may still go on
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