gas hobs

[craigmurray]

afternoon all on a wet weekend in meridan lol.....The question i have is this....one of the gas rings doesnt stay lit on my hob, it lights up ok when i push and turn the knob in but when i release after a few seconds it goes out...Is there a micro switch or something inside the push and turn gas button?

many thanks craig

 

[Beehpee]

Hi it will probably be because of the thermo coupling which is a device pretty much all gas appliances have which basically shuts off the gas if the flame go's off so as to prevent gas leaks, however before you buy and fit a new one it might be worth checking something, I had same problem fitted new coupling and still had the problem which turned out to be simply that the knob to turn on the ring was worn slightly where it slotted on to the bit it turns, to check if it the same problem try lighting the gas ring by turning the spindle after you have removed the knob, hold it in with the flame burning for a bit and see if it stays alight .

 

[craigmurray]

hi ya and thankyou, i didnt even give a thermo couple a 2nd thought for some some reason, ive had them go at home DOH!!!!! i tried pulling the knob off like u said, but still the same, are thermo couples easy to fit?

craig

 

[Beehpee]

Yes it's just a small spanner at each end, either get the exact one for your van or if you take off the old one and measure how long it is you can buy a universal one that's around the right length from most caravan spares dealers, often they are coiled so an approximate length is good enough, as long as it's not too short any excess can just be coiled, also I'm pretty certain that as it doesn't involve the gas at all there is no requirement for it too be done by a gas fitter, I seem to think when mine went it cost me well under a tenner for a universal couple from jacksons at arley if they are anywhere near you, I'm sure you could get it online as well. Good luck.

 

[craigmurray]

hi ya and thankyou jacksons is about 15 mins from me i will have to make a trip. what do you think of the "new" jacksons?

 

[Beehpee]

I preferred the old jacksons for sure, it's just like any other parts place now

 

[zurich68]

Just a comment on the gas hob flame failure device.
Its some years since I worked as a trainer and assesser in the in the gas safety industry so I may be a little rusty on the regulations. At that time, anyone who worked on a gas appliance had to be competent to do so and also a member of a body approved by the Health and Safety Executive. The approved body was then CORGI but has since changed to Gassafe.
When anyone works on a gas appliance, the working of the applience should be checked for safety, ie does the new flame failure device wok and shut the gas off in the required time. This is just one test that should be carried out after fitting the device, there are others.
The changing of a flame failure device may appear to be a simple job but it is working on a gas applience and as such will come under the gas safety regulations.
If you do decide to fit the themocouple yourself, may I suggest you have the hob checked by a gassafe registered engineer.
Tony

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Zurich,

I concur with your recollection, which is the requirement for domestic appliances and appliances using gas supplied by pipes.

It pains me to have to reveal that the Gas safety Installation and Use Regulations has a specific section that relates to touring caravans and self propelled motor caravans. This section absolves the owner from tinkering with the gas appliances in the afore mentioned vehicles.(though I can see no reasonable explanation as to why these groups are allowed to do this)

However even though any Tom Dick or Harry can break and make a gas joint on these vehicles, they must still conduct the process according to the regulations with regards safe working procedures and testing.

It is unlikely that any DIYer has either the full knowledge of the tests and there procedures that should be carried out, yet alone have calibrated equipment to enable the tests to be creditable.

The sooner this anomaly in the regulations is corrected the better.

 

[Beehpee]

I personally can see no reason at all why anyone would need to get a gas fitter to change a thermo couple, it is not a gas connection but simply a device to keep the gas flowing while there is a flame and stop it if there isn't, not exactly difficult to check to see if it works eh, if anyone were to check you would soon find out that if using your grill at the same time as the hobs that the value of a thermo couple is none existent anyway, I'm not surprised caravan cookers are I think the prof is saying not covered by the same regs as domestic as I doubt they could pass from brand new as they are so poorly designed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I should have added that as far as I am concerened (and I am very very concerened with gas safety) no one unless thayare fully competent and that includeces fully conversant with all the gas regulations and practice should undertake any work that impinges on the gas system. as the rest of the GSIU regulations clearly make it an offence for a none-compent person to under take any reapir or sub-sytem adjustment on a gas appliance, that includes thermocouples which have a direct influnce on one of the stautory safety requirements for appliances sold and used in the UK.

Caravans are an agressive enviroment in respect of gas and electrical appliances. Applainces are not used for long periods of time. The storage conditions are rife for the creeping ravages of corrosion, and insect intrusions, leading to reduced efficencey of operation, the possibility that the combustion is properly assessed for its exhaust gasses, and that potential problems may either be created or go un-noticted. The products are subject to large amounts vibration through towing, which cuases fatigue tractures in metal work and can cause gas connections to weaken, and in teh worst cases actualy farcture releasing gas. and yet none competent people are allowed to tinker with them. Even the apparent harmless tweek to check a gas coupling can lead to failure of the coupling.

That frankly is a recipie for bad practice and poor installation and maintenance that can and does render some installtions very dangerous.

I will never suggest that any one other than a competent fitter undertakes any work on a gas appliance.

 

[Beehpee]

I agree in principle in what you say prof and even tho I feel I am more than capable of doing anything to my cooker whether it involved the actual gas side of things or not I can honestly say I would never actually do it if it meant breaking gas seals or replacing pipes, firstly because of the safety aspect, in fact thinking about it, purely from the safety aspect, whether or not it's against regulations in the nanny state we live in is of little or no consequence to me, safety tho is a paramount concern and for that reason I would never attempt to mess with the actual gas fittings, a thermo couple tho is purely mechanical and therefore cannot cause gas to leak, as far as testing it is concerned as I said it's not exactly rocket science, I think people should be more concerned with how poorly designed caravan cookers are, take for instance thermo couples, if you have the grill lit on your cooker, the need for a working thermo couple become unnecessary as the heat from the grill will keep the gas flowing from any of the four top burners even if there is no flame, I can't see a cooker with the same defect passing gas safety regs for home use, I seem to remember sometime ago trying to buy a part for a central heating boiler and being told at the time that it could only be bought by a corgi registered person for safety reasons, I was told that anything that had to be fitted by corgi fitters was the same, only sold to registered fitters, if that has changed then in my opinion that is not a change for better safety, if it is still the case then how come a thermo couple can be picked up off the shelf at any caravan accessory shop, as I say prof I agree with you in principle but rules are sometimes made to be ignored and in my opinion a thermo couple is not beyond the capabilities of anyone who knows what a spanner is for. BP

 

[chrisbee1]

While I too agree with the Prof re gas safety how far do we go along the “competent person” route? It’s just as dangerous for an incompetent person to work on a vehicle fuel or brake system but how many people change their own brake pads? Even the incorrect fitting of your spare wheel after a puncture can have fatal consequences yet these tasks are routinely undertaken by “lay” persons.

 

[mucky pup]

I was a corgi registered gas fitter and have changed thousands of Thermo-couples over the years and never casused a leak by doing so. While i totaly agree with the Prof and others that only qualified fitters should do repairs on any gas appliance or make any gas connections do you realise that changing a cylinder of gas requires the seal to be broken and resealed, In this case should they have to be changed by a qualified fitter ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello BP

Let me cover one point you make concerning the construction regulations of the cooker you suggest is none compliant. Unless the regulations have changed significantly since I worked regularly in the industry, caravan gas appliances have to meet the same standards as domestic appliances in key areas such as gas safety, and combustion efficiency, surface and emission temperatures.

If you have concerns about your appliance then you should seek guidance from trading standards.

One of the other aspects of what I did was to investigate LPG appliance related incidents. Sadly some incidents I had to review were near fatal, and in virtually all cases the cause of the incident was inept DIY attempts at gas appliance fitting or servicing or repairs.

Even apparently minor repairs undertaken by qualified engineers (but not gas trained) failed to maintain the safety of the appliance or installation, and under formal investigation the persons we found not to have fully appreciated the implications of their actions.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi John
Of course gas is a very dangerous thing and should only be handled by a qualified competent person.
What do you think of Doug King's article in the latest mag showing us how to fit a new fridge??

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Dusty,

For the obvious reasons I have already given, I cannot agree with the principal of suggesting DIY involving gas appliances. But what has been written is legally correct provided it is followed by the owner of a touring caravan or self propelled motor caravan, where it is not being used for hire or let.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

I recently had this same symptom, just one gas ring would not stay alight. The cause was eventually found to be a failed regulator, which was pumping gas from the relief valve, in my view a dangerous fault. So just a word of caution that things are may not always be what they seem to the untrained.