gas usage.

[seth1]

Hello,

i wonder if anyone can help me with a quiery.weve mugged ourselves to another van,part ex the prevous van.since we,ve been caravaning we,ve never used gas or had it fitted.we,ve always had a diesel heater fitted under the bunks with the fuel tank located were the spare wheel was and the wheel under the rear.3 gallon of fuel would last us all year inc winter vanning.

With this van ,dont really fancy chopping a 12"x8" hole in the floor and then reinstating the floor to join the two pieces of plywood back together and protect the foam.but this van uses a 6kg bottle every 2.5 days,with no fridge on,the fire as low as poss,and turned off when were out.its getting expensive.

ive been under it with washing up bottle and soapy water,its been back to the dealer and cant find anythink up.and they said this amount of usage is acceptable.what do you guys think?

any help would be sound.im out my depth here.

regards seth.

 

[Ian341]

There is certainly a problem there Seth. We have the 6kg Calor lite and we have been away for a total of 7 nights since we had it and the level indicator is just below full. And that is with sub zero temperatures, the cooker, oven and grill used for breakfast, lunch and tea. The truma on gas at very cold times and the water heater on gas when swmbo is having a shower. With the fridge running for 3 hours when we arrived.

I have never used 6kg bottles in 2 days, I would make sure the water heater, fridge and heater are all off and monitor the usage then, the only problem I can think of is that there is a leak somewhere.

You can get a gas pressure tester, unsure where and how much though sorry.

Hope this helps a little.

Ian

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Seth,

From your posting I take it that the dealer is approved for installing and servicing gas appliances, If so and they say nothings wrong then we have to assume there are no leaks, and that the regulator is supplying gas at the correct pressure. That leaves how much you are using the appliances.

Don't forget that over the last few days we have seen sustained low temperatures, and that may mean you are using the space heater a lot more. It will also mean that the water heater will also be using more gas to heat the water which is entering the caravan at a lower temperature.

You already know that you buy your gas refills by weight. The 6kg actually refers to the weight of the lpg in the bottle, which makes it quite easy to work out how long a bottle should last.

As a fairly basic check, all your gas appliances should have a data plate that states the amount of gas they will use when on. More information may be in the appliances instruction books. This should be quoted in grammes per hour (g/h). If you not how long each appliance is turned on, and multiply the gas rate by the number of hours, then you should be able to work out how much gas you should be using. Don't forget that some appliances are thermostatically controlled, and will operate at a reduced rate for some of the time.

Just as a quick guide, a 100g/h is roughly the equivalent to 1000W, so your 3kW gas fire will use about 300g/h when on high. That is about 1Kg in 3.5 hours!

When you have your daily usage figure (in grammes) it is easy to divide into the bottles gas weight to estimate the number of days it will last.

As a comparison to your old diesel heater, you must understand that LPG by weight and volume only has about half the heat energy of diesel or petrol, so you need about twice as much LPG to produce the same amount of heat. Whilst this may seem uneconomic, it rather depends on where you get your diesel fuel from and is DERV or 'heating fuel'. These are basically the same fuel, but are taxed differently.

Other considerations will be the cleanness of the fuel, LPG is characterised as being an easy fuel to burn, and there are very few particulate emissions, where as diesel tends to produce a lot of carbon soot and sulphates which clog up appliances. You will also find that most diesel heater need to run a power full internal fan or pump, which means they tend to use more electrical power than an equivalent gas powered heater. This will affect your battery usage.

 

[seth1]

Hello, thanks for the replies,the last time we used the van was oct so it was still cool.but as i said we only ran the gas fire,and thinking about it we did heat the water.the guy at the workshops explained the sameway,ie g/h and his conclusion was it was within limit.but talking to friends they reckon its very excessive and if there is something amiss i,d like to get it repaired in the warranty period.cheers.

 

[Ian341]

HI Seth, What van do you have and what age is it ?

Also is it a Truma heater or Carver ??

I would definitely say it was excessive but then if there is no leaks and it has been checked I am also unsure what or where the problem lies.

Ian

 

[seth1]

Hi Ian,

Adria Altea 502dk,brand new in oct 2008.i think its Truma.

thanks seth.

 

[trucker]

Seth,

we were away for xmas in our van used heating on gas for about a 1/4 of the time we were away and also cooked boxing day full dinner and also other dinners and teas, we use a whistle kettle which uses gas as well. We used about a 3rd of a bottle of gas in 6 days/nights, whch were very cold.

I would have the pressure tested as this usage seems alot to me.

The other thing is was the gas bottle full?? or were you sold an empty!! easy done if the screw cap is replaced as all the bottles need to be stored in a lock up/cage Id give it another go with a (what you know to be) full bottle.

Kevin

 

[seth1]

hello Kevin,

thought the same,maybe halfful bottles,but ive had bottles from different places,yet its still the same.i,ll wiegh the next one.

regards seth.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Seth I know this may be A STUPID REPLY but have you actually run out of gas or has the gas frozen

As I couldnt find anything relating to when this happened I guess this may be recently, if so check this out

Sir Roger

 

[Damian]

I am guessing that with Seth saying a 6kg cylinder it is Propane.

Remember though, propane uses more gas than Butane to achieve the same end result, but of course Butane is no good in low temps

 

[seth1]

Thanks for the replies,yes its 6kg propane.dont think its frozen as it was not to bad in october.not sure what to do now maybe just live with it.Trouble is i dont think its right either.i think next time were out,i,ll follow John L,s idea and do some calculations.A good friend of mine also suggested swapping to butane.Then go from there.

thanks guys.

 

[JTQ]

Your propane gas will not freeze in UK abmients. Changing to Butane would be a big mistake in this cold weather, as that freezes when used at high demand from as warm as 6 deg C.

[ at lower demands it will only work down to about zero at best]

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am guessing that with Seth saying a 6kg cylinder it is Propane.

Remember though, propane uses more gas than Butane to achieve the same end result, but of course Butane is no good in low temps

Calor only do the Calor-lite in propane.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Seth I know this may be A STUPID REPLY but have you actually run out of gas or has the gas frozen

As I couldnt find anything relating to when this happened I guess this may be recently, if so check this out

Sir Roger

hello Roger

a small point but technically LPG does not freeze, it stops boiling.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Your propane gas will not freeze in UK abmients. Changing to Butane would be a big mistake in this cold weather, as that freezes when used at high demand from as warm as 6 deg C.

[ at lower demands it will only work down to about zero at best]

Same comment as above, LPG does not freeze, it stops boiling.

 

[SimonB]

We can sometimes use nearly a whole 6kg bottle in a weekend when it is very cold and we have no hook up. We have now changed to gaslow bottles and refill them at the petrol station and it costs about

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Simon,

Thank for your input, based on my earlier posting it is auite easy to see that on a cold day teh heating may be on for a good proportion of it, and thus at 300g/h, it would only take 18 hours use to empty a 6Kg bottle.

as for refilling the gaslow bottles, assuming you are talking about the removable types, do not be surprised if some LPG station refuse to allow your to fill them. they are not insured for portable bottles. It is different if you have the fixed system fitted with a filling port fixed to the side of the caravan.

 

[seth1]

Hello,after reading this again i decided to get back in touch with the dealer at dinnertime.and low and behold the dealer admitted to not being to competent with gas and generally gets an outside party in.so suggested Truma,spoke to Truma who were great and these chaps reckon 30g/h on our useage and conditions is more like it.Its now booked in with them for next tuesday.

I,d interested to here more about Simons set up as it sounds alot cheaper to run which cant be a bad thing.

a big thanks for the replies.

seth.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Seth,

I do not know if you want to take the confession of the dealer further. If you asked him to check the system, and he did not use a competent person to conduct the test, and he then advised you that it was OK, he has broken the law, both in terms of the gas regulations, and trading standards. this is serious, because how many other systems has glibly stated as being satisfactory when he has not complete the legally required tests.

How many other people may be using a potentially dangerous gas system?

Please do name him or his company on this site, but if you feel so inclined please advise trading standards.

 

[seth1]

Alright John L,your first post was very close to the truth.Im a bit upset myself with this Adria,ive waited 3 months for an internal cupboard door as the vinale is peeling,bearing in mind i towed it back to the dealer to have the door ,gas check and a curtain rail stop repaired/fitted(was missing) under warrenty. The only thing done was the curtain.i doubt its been PDI,d either.the beauty is he told me to take it to a dealer closer to me,nothing to do with his dealership."and really its nothing to do with us, as its not really the caravan at fault but the fire which is Truma"was his statement.Ive contacted truma off my own back.But the next time i have ten grand in my back pocket i wont be going to see Thomas the tank engine and just popping in Clywd caravans for a peep on the way home.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Seth,

I have mad a serious mistake, finger trouble actually I meant to say DO NOT name him.

From your posting I conclude The dealer has actually broken of the sale of goods act as well!

As the seller he is uniquely responsible for every thing he sells. If it is faulty (at the time of sale) he is obliged under SOGA to remedy the situation. He should be contacting Truma or the caravan manufacture not you.

Do talk to Trading Standards, they will offer professional advice and may actually take some direct action.

 

[wombat1]

Run out of gas in 2 days, 7 days!

I bought my van in Feb 2007, gas ran out in August 2008.

We only use it to cook though.

EHU all the time.

Wombat

 

[SimonB]

My gaslow bottles are inteh front locker as usual but I also have a filling point screwed to the floor inside the locker. This enables me to either take the whole van to fill the bottles or unscrew ( 2 screws ) the filler and put it in the rear of the car for filling, which I do without any questions from staff at the filing staions. All you have to do to make it a fixed installation is screw it all to a temp bit of ply in the boot.