I currently live and work in Germany,I purchased my caravan over here and have been using propane(Cream coloured bottles) for the last two years. I move back to the UK in January .Is their any thing I have to do to the gas lines as Im not so sure if the connections are the same as the UK .Is their a facility for getting propane or is it all butane (Blue bottles).
Gas
- Thread starter Ian_5040591
- Start date
Propane is available in Red Calor bottles among others but you may need to change to change the regulator as there are so many different types
Hi, Am I right in saying Propane (Red) Bottles are better for winter months as they will not freeze. Butane (Blue) Bottles really for summer months. Liz
Hello Ian,
I have to urge caution in your proposed solution for the following reasons:
For many years the standard gas pressure used in Germany (and some other Eurpaen and Scandanavian Counyries) was 50mB (milliBar). This is somewhat higher than the pressures used in the UK, and the two systems are not compatible. To check, look at the gas regulator, or any of the gas appliances, and the data plates will tell you what the working pressures should be.
If they are 50mB, then to use in the UK, you would need to find a 50mB regulator or adaptor for UK bottles - such devices do exsist, check with your local Calor or gas supplier.
If you are lucky, then your caravan may have been manufactured to the new EU regulations which calls for a 30mB supply - if so it is now compatible with the the new pressures of 30mB in the UK, and UK regulators will be easily found.
Do not under any circumstances use the wrong regulator with your appliances - this is dangerous and illegal.
If you have any doubts always consult a compoent gas fitter for advice and any alterations needs to equipment or pipework.
I have to urge caution in your proposed solution for the following reasons:
For many years the standard gas pressure used in Germany (and some other Eurpaen and Scandanavian Counyries) was 50mB (milliBar). This is somewhat higher than the pressures used in the UK, and the two systems are not compatible. To check, look at the gas regulator, or any of the gas appliances, and the data plates will tell you what the working pressures should be.
If they are 50mB, then to use in the UK, you would need to find a 50mB regulator or adaptor for UK bottles - such devices do exsist, check with your local Calor or gas supplier.
If you are lucky, then your caravan may have been manufactured to the new EU regulations which calls for a 30mB supply - if so it is now compatible with the the new pressures of 30mB in the UK, and UK regulators will be easily found.
Do not under any circumstances use the wrong regulator with your appliances - this is dangerous and illegal.
If you have any doubts always consult a compoent gas fitter for advice and any alterations needs to equipment or pipework.
Hello John L,
I think we meet again on a different subject.
If Ian was ok with regulator or adaptor for UK Calor Gas. If using his van during winter months is it correct to say Propane (Red) is better, will not freeze? Liz
Hello Liz,
Ian's point is different to the question of which type of gas to use in winter. It used to be the case that virtually each country in had different standards and that was reflected by the types of gas and the operating pressures they used. Where the operating pressures are different, the equipment is not compatible with UK systems. Not only will there be a change in the performance of appliances, but with some combinations there would be a real danger to the user. We now have a supposed unified gas pressure across the EU for new caravans, but there are still local variations in the types of gas available.
However to answer your question; LPG or Liquefied Petroleum Gas is typically available in two commercial forms as Butane and Propane. They are sufficiently similar in their burning characteristics to allow interchange ability in most caravan appliances with little change to performance.
The beauty of these gases is that they can be easily compressed or cooled to cause them to condense into their liquid form. This makes them easy to store in the bottles we know. A charged bottle contains some gas in vapour and some in liquid. The pressure of the vapour is sufficient to prevent the liquid from boiling to release more vapour. This is exactly the same process you find in domestic pressure cooker.
The pressure required to maintain this state is very much dependant on temperature of the bottle and its content. The lower the temp. the lower the pressure. Eventually you reach the point where the temp. is too low to 'boil' the liquefied gas and so no vapour is released. For butane this is around zero degrees centigrade, but for Propane it is minus 40 C.
The problem is exaggerated because when you use gas, the bottle actually cools down as the boiling uses the latent heat of the bottle and its contents to vaporise more gas. So using Butane in a UK winter can become a problem with air temperatures as low as 4 C. Propane is more reliable in these conditions. Some people in the UK use propane all year round.
I once came across a caravanner who complained that their gas kept dying on them. The air temperature was about 8 degrees. They were using Butane, but they had wrapped their bottles in a hot water cylinder jacket "To keep them warm". As the gas was used the bottled cooled down and eventually only a trickle of gas was produced. Removing the insulation restored normal operation after a very short while.
This is one of the reasons that bottle lockers are so draughty, is to ensure there is enough air flow around the bottles to allow them to pick up heat from the ambient air.
Ian's point is different to the question of which type of gas to use in winter. It used to be the case that virtually each country in had different standards and that was reflected by the types of gas and the operating pressures they used. Where the operating pressures are different, the equipment is not compatible with UK systems. Not only will there be a change in the performance of appliances, but with some combinations there would be a real danger to the user. We now have a supposed unified gas pressure across the EU for new caravans, but there are still local variations in the types of gas available.
However to answer your question; LPG or Liquefied Petroleum Gas is typically available in two commercial forms as Butane and Propane. They are sufficiently similar in their burning characteristics to allow interchange ability in most caravan appliances with little change to performance.
The beauty of these gases is that they can be easily compressed or cooled to cause them to condense into their liquid form. This makes them easy to store in the bottles we know. A charged bottle contains some gas in vapour and some in liquid. The pressure of the vapour is sufficient to prevent the liquid from boiling to release more vapour. This is exactly the same process you find in domestic pressure cooker.
The pressure required to maintain this state is very much dependant on temperature of the bottle and its content. The lower the temp. the lower the pressure. Eventually you reach the point where the temp. is too low to 'boil' the liquefied gas and so no vapour is released. For butane this is around zero degrees centigrade, but for Propane it is minus 40 C.
The problem is exaggerated because when you use gas, the bottle actually cools down as the boiling uses the latent heat of the bottle and its contents to vaporise more gas. So using Butane in a UK winter can become a problem with air temperatures as low as 4 C. Propane is more reliable in these conditions. Some people in the UK use propane all year round.
I once came across a caravanner who complained that their gas kept dying on them. The air temperature was about 8 degrees. They were using Butane, but they had wrapped their bottles in a hot water cylinder jacket "To keep them warm". As the gas was used the bottled cooled down and eventually only a trickle of gas was produced. Removing the insulation restored normal operation after a very short while.
This is one of the reasons that bottle lockers are so draughty, is to ensure there is enough air flow around the bottles to allow them to pick up heat from the ambient air.
Hi John L, I did realize that, but I thought instead of repeating the subject Gas, I would ask the question. The reason being we are currently using Butane, we plan to use our van during the winter months, so I was wondering whether best to change to Propane. I was very interested to read your forum though. Liz
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