Generator Yes/No?

[BadgerBalls]

I have an Michael Jordan Abbey 520L 2005 and wish to go away in November. I have noticed that most of the Major sites around where I want to go are closed. This means I will have to go to a site with no hookup. I realise that I can use my 110Ah battery and I have gas heating and cooking but I am not sure how long it will last. I don't have a television or any kak like that so it is only really the pumps.
I was considering getting a small generator but am not sure if this is a No No on caravan sites due to any noise it produces. If not, I could use some guidance on this please.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello BB

Generators have their place, but they can be a real nuisance on caravan sites.

Bearing in mind your none television comment, then it is a strong proposition to survive on a 110Ah battery for several days without a hook up. Its not the pumps you need to worry about, they actually use a relatively small amount of power compared to the lights and fans in the caravan.

just a quick thumbnail calculation a water pump may be run for say and average 3min an hour (or less) and it uses 5A. 3Min is 1/20th of an hour, so 5x1/20 = 0.25Ah x 24Hours = 6ah per day and that will be a lot of usage it will probably be much less than that.

By comparison your average florescent caravan light uses about 1.2A and they are on (in winter) for say 6hours per day so that is 7.2Ah per day per light! You hot air fan will use a similar amount of current per hour, so you can probably do the maths.

A generator may seem like a good idea, but from a technical point of view, the cheap two stroke units tend to be rather poor at regulating their output voltage and surges from the set have been known to damage some of the more sensitive items in caravans, plus they are quite noisy. So they are probably a no-no for caravans.

There are better quality generators that use inverter technology. These are much better but are a lot more expensive.

Regardless of which petrol generator you use, such small units are all hopelessly inefficient. You would be lucky if 5 to 6% of the petrol you burn as usable electrical power.

Its far more efficient to run the fridge, water adn space heaters on gas where you are guaranteed to be getting more than 70% fuel efficiency.

There are alternatives, Solar panels, even in November a decent sized panel (60 to 100W) will extend the charge capacity of your battery.

Change your lights to LED bulbs, these use a fraction of the power of incandescent bulb.

In fact if you are only using such small amounts of power, then you could even couple up to your car battery provided you go out each day to recharge it.

 

[DeliDave_]

we have an 80 watt solar panel which produces about 1amp an hour even in dull lights and we have a 12volt powerpack,the kind you start your car with if battery is flat as standby which is charged in car as we drive about.lot cheaper less trouble than gennerator imho

 

[erica11]

We have both a generator and 60 watt solar panel. If yr well away from others then a generator is fine provided u use it between the daylight hours. U say u have no tv then use a solar panel we have two110 batteries, changing over to recharge when one runs down. If yr intending going on rally/meets then their will be no electric but cs/cl site generally have electric. Try one of these some nice cs/cl,s around and quite inexpensive as well.

 

[BadgerBalls]

Hello BB

Generators have their place, but they can be a real nuisance on caravan sites.

Bearing in mind your none television comment, then it is a strong proposition to survive on a 110Ah battery for several days without a hook up. Its not the pumps you need to worry about, they actually use a relatively small amount of power compared to the lights and fans in the caravan.

just a quick thumbnail calculation a water pump may be run for say and average 3min an hour (or less) and it uses 5A. 3Min is 1/20th of an hour, so 5x1/20 = 0.25Ah x 24Hours = 6ah per day and that will be a lot of usage it will probably be much less than that.

By comparison your average florescent caravan light uses about 1.2A and they are on (in winter) for say 6hours per day so that is 7.2Ah per day per light! You hot air fan will use a similar amount of current per hour, so you can probably do the maths.

A generator may seem like a good idea, but from a technical point of view, the cheap two stroke units tend to be rather poor at regulating their output voltage and surges from the set have been known to damage some of the more sensitive items in caravans, plus they are quite noisy. So they are probably a no-no for caravans.

There are better quality generators that use inverter technology. These are much better but are a lot more expensive.

Regardless of which petrol generator you use, such small units are all hopelessly inefficient. You would be lucky if 5 to 6% of the petrol you burn as usable electrical power.

Its far more efficient to run the fridge, water adn space heaters on gas where you are guaranteed to be getting more than 70% fuel efficiency.

There are alternatives, Solar panels, even in November a decent sized panel (60 to 100W) will extend the charge capacity of your battery.

Change your lights to LED bulbs, these use a fraction of the power of incandescent bulb.

In fact if you are only using such small amounts of power, then you could even couple up to your car battery provided you go out each day to recharge it.

YepI take on board what you say. I am lucky enough to own a VW passat that has a solar paneled sun roof wihich drives the fan to keep the car cool on hot days but also charges the battery. I am not sure if there is a constant feed to the caravan, or whether it is switched in when it reaches 13v.i.e. control box.
I was looking at buying a 1000watt Clarke 4stroke inverter genny around 279ukp. I would only be running it for about 4 hours a day and it would charge the battery and allow me to run and charge computers. I will look into solar panel as it is certainly mre efficient and wins all round. Unfortunately my 12v lighting is QH and will not take leds. I would have to change the whole light units.
Have you any idea how many watts the single electric cooker plate would be. Do you reckon it is less than 1Kw?

 

[Parksy]

Hi BB
Buying a solar panel or a generator seems like a substantial cash outlay for a week or two of caravanning in November.
Are you certain that no sites have ehu in the area that you wish to visit?
My experience as a C&CC member would suggest that it's normally possible to find a certified site with either ehu or a battery charging facility.
I'd be a bit careful about using a generator, apart from the noise consideration I know of at least one Swift owner who used a generator which allegedly damaged his battery charger. Swift reportedly wouldn't replace the charger under warranty because he'd used the generator and his wife had admitted the generator use to the dealership.
Solar power is efficient and causes no damage to battery chargers or ancillary equipment and someone reasonably competent at d-i-y would have no trouble with the installation, a 100 watt mono-crystalline panel with a charge regulator can be bought via E-bay for around £200.
It might be less expensive to buy a spare 110 amp/hour leisure battery and a smart battery charger such as a C-Tek
The question of how long a lpg bottle would last is a 'how long is a piece of string?' question but with the fridge, water heater, heating and cooking you should get at least a couple of weeks from a 6kg propane refill.

 

[Surfer]

any kak like that

I think the last time I heard that expression was when I was in South Africa.

 

[BadgerBalls]

any kak like that

I think the last time I heard that expression was when I was in South Africa.

Yep I am a mech/eng and worked in North Africa for some years. Don't know where I got it but have used it for years. I am a software engineer these days and use it regularly and it is quite a buzz word in our clan now.<G>

 

[BadgerBalls]

Hi BB
Buying a solar panel or a generator seems like a substantial cash outlay for a week or two of caravanning in November
'how long is a piece of string?'

Absolutely correct I may as well buy a solar panel. I have been thinking of getting a motor mover and a solar panel would be a good choice for restoring the battery I think, so I will definately go for that.I will get 100W panel.
btw I am surprised you don't know how long a piece of string is? It is this long ¦-------------¦ ¦)

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello BB,
When you say your lights are QH, I assume you mean Quartz Halogen. These are slightly more efficicnet than conventional filament bulbs but they still use 1.5 to 2A of current.

There are LED replacemnt bulbs for most QH fittings, BUT beware the quality of the light is different, and it may not be quite as bright, but as an energy efficient alternative they are great. Look on Ebay or other specialist buls sites

If you have no mains hook up, I wouildn't even consider using an electric hotplate with a generator, Gas is far mor efficient, and you havn't got to stow carry the extra equiepment, which will eat away at your load margins.

Your LPG is sold by weight, and each appliance will have a gas consumption rate. If you know how long each appliance is burning, then you can work out how long your bottle will last. BUT the problem is you are thinking of going in November, Some long range forecasts are predicting freezing conditions for Oct, and that could also mean Nov as well. Butane (Calor blue bottles) will not be effective during frosty weather, you should change to Propane (Calor red bottles) which are good for down to -30C ambient temperatures. You are likley to use more gas for heating if the temperatures are cold, so its almost impossible to answerhow long your bottles will last.

And general note for all caravanners, if the predicted freeze does arrive, them do make sure you drain your water systems completely.

 

[Parksy]

btw I am surprised you don't know how long a piece of string is? It is this long ¦-------------¦ ¦)

Mine isn't

There's some information on caravan solar panel installation here from when I did mine.
It's very important to get the cable size right to avoid voltage drop and the only thing that I'd do differently (and which I will rectify soon) would be to use a 10amp morningstar pwm charge controller instead of a cheaper shunt regulator.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Parksy,
Clearly you don't know your string.
The BS standard string was surplanted by the EU standard string in 1982, when the tensions were harmonised. Either of these is standard strings is long enough, but the UK caravan industry has their own standard which is 85% of the length required. Depending on the size of boy holding the string the German standards permit 100% of the string to be used, provide the boy is wearing those leather shorts with braces.
I have no idea of South African equivalents.

 

[hogrider56]

I've lasted for a week on battery alone at Cl sites and at music festivals, and that is with showering couple of times a day, maybe small amount of tv for the news, admitedly not using the heating fan. I would be quite confident in going out in winter for a weekend on just battery.

 

[Parksy]

Parksy,
Clearly you don't know your string.
The BS standard string was surplanted by the EU standard string in 1982, when the tensions were harmonised. Either of these is standard strings is long enough, but the UK caravan industry has their own standard which is 85% of the length required. Depending on the size of boy holding the string the German standards permit 100% of the string to be used, provide the boy is wearing those leather shorts with braces.
I have no idea of South African equivalents.

I'm afraid that you're correct John, any EU directive which governs the length of string is given in centimetres and the mental arithmetic necessary to convert mm or cm to inches ties me in knots which as I'm sure you know are difficult to fathom because there is no direct comparison with mph in naval terms.
This could mean that the time taken for a length of string to pass a given point might provide a misleading indication of it's length according to the measurements of speed used at the time.
I'm also unsure whether the EU definition of 'long' refers to an unspecified period of time and if so, is this time elapsed?
One would have imagined that the length of string held by the lederhosen clad boy might vary somewhat according to the altitude of the string at the time of measurement depending on his geographical location, which would of course affect the length because of shrinkage due to contraction.
As we know the British 85% is more of a recommendation which might account for the fact that my particular length of British string is quite short when compared to unregulated string of the kind commonly used in South Africa colloquially known as 'kak'

 

[ProfJohnL]

Show off
Knowing how to spell "lederhosen "

Sorry pardon for the diversion