Under "towcars" giovanni is listed as posting at approx 1800hrs, but I can't find his post. Where is it? Or am I being dull?
giovanni
- Thread starter emmerson2
- Start date
Yes and either a tad to much ethanol in the mix or one to many airbags in the car!!
Lol!!
Or even LMAO!!!
Lol!!
Or even LMAO!!!
clive, you seem to be getting a bit personel now, aren't you?
has as already been said its the time of goodwill,so lay off
the snidy remarks,just stick to your normal yeah, yeah,or better
still join in the good will
has as already been said its the time of goodwill,so lay off
the snidy remarks,just stick to your normal yeah, yeah,or better
still join in the good will
Gio - Nothing personal at all - but anyone who equates a DTI powershift grant to the help given to immigrants - illegal or otherwise (for which I am proud of my country as it has a long history of helping the oppressed) has in my view lost the plot as far as the original subject of what fuel is best on the pocket and best for the environment.
Hence my comments. Many of the immigrants this country takes on are escaping from REAL hardship. For you to equate a green fuel grant to money spent on humanitarian aid is completely off the wall.
So Merry Christmas to you too.
Hence my comments. Many of the immigrants this country takes on are escaping from REAL hardship. For you to equate a green fuel grant to money spent on humanitarian aid is completely off the wall.
So Merry Christmas to you too.
clive you bewilder me, i applaude your ability to change direction mid lane.
but alas i am stumped by your inability to make the link.
but again ONLY YOU attack me on my post and do not see how
grants, having very little to do with common sense,so again i
ask you how come the majority of lpg conversions are indeed done
on larger capacity engines,and so therefore, really does not
constitute a persons environmental personer.
i also remember this was a topic started by you on bio diesel
and the damage done to the rainforest. and as i have had time
to think back to my days at school, and photosynthesis,i am sure
you are aware that A , plant life is what gives us our oxygen, and takes
out the carbon dioxide from our air.
so if we are indeed chopping down rain forests, and replanting
crops,maybe you could tell me how the balance is affected?
from what i have read, biodiesel crops, balance out the co2 that
dieselcars produce, now thats nothing to brag about, but atleast
it shows a certain balance, so please take the time, as you do
to scout the internet and tell us how crops do a worse job than
trees per hectre in cleaning up our environment,as alas you seem
to have lost the plot and go out of your way to promote lpg fuel. which is fine,and as i have said now too often if i had
a large engined car i may indeed go for the cheaper fuel..because
its cheaper and nothing else, because i do not care or pretend to
be an environmentalist, and would accept that i was using 2 or3
time the resourses i need to use.
this is what YOU do not seem to accept,and thats the ONLY place
we disagree on.
so be it...
but alas i am stumped by your inability to make the link.
but again ONLY YOU attack me on my post and do not see how
grants, having very little to do with common sense,so again i
ask you how come the majority of lpg conversions are indeed done
on larger capacity engines,and so therefore, really does not
constitute a persons environmental personer.
i also remember this was a topic started by you on bio diesel
and the damage done to the rainforest. and as i have had time
to think back to my days at school, and photosynthesis,i am sure
you are aware that A , plant life is what gives us our oxygen, and takes
out the carbon dioxide from our air.
so if we are indeed chopping down rain forests, and replanting
crops,maybe you could tell me how the balance is affected?
from what i have read, biodiesel crops, balance out the co2 that
dieselcars produce, now thats nothing to brag about, but atleast
it shows a certain balance, so please take the time, as you do
to scout the internet and tell us how crops do a worse job than
trees per hectre in cleaning up our environment,as alas you seem
to have lost the plot and go out of your way to promote lpg fuel. which is fine,and as i have said now too often if i had
a large engined car i may indeed go for the cheaper fuel..because
its cheaper and nothing else, because i do not care or pretend to
be an environmentalist, and would accept that i was using 2 or3
time the resourses i need to use.
this is what YOU do not seem to accept,and thats the ONLY place
we disagree on.
so be it...
Problem is where do we differ? I use diesel vehicles but prefer LPG as it is known to be cleaner and cheaper. Now Gio wants me to prepare some kind of thesis on the relative merits of natural vegetation compared to those used to produce bio diesel. Got to draw the line somewhere Gio !! I think there is alreadt enough evidence on the releative merits of allowing a natural habitat to survive rather that destroy it for a cash crop. Ever heard of the American "Dustbowl"?
And all I did was draw peoples attention to a New Scientist article that covered an interesting if negative aspect of the EU's drive for more bio diesel use which has resulted in a greater demand and so the destruction of natural habitat in other parts of the world to feed this EU directive fed demand.
Happy New Year guys!!
Woops - posted in wrong place
Problem is where do we differ? I use diesel vehicles but prefer LPG as it is known to be cleaner and cheaper. Now Gio wants me to prepare some kind of thesis on the relative merits of natural vegetation compared to those used to produce bio diesel. Got to draw the line somewhere Gio!!
And all I did was draw peoples attention to a New Scientist article that covered an interesting if negative aspect of the EU's drive for more bio diesel use which has resulted in a greater demand and so the destruction of natural habitat in other parts of the world to feed this EU directive fed demand.
Problem is where do we differ? I use diesel vehicles but prefer LPG as it is known to be cleaner and cheaper. Now Gio wants me to prepare some kind of thesis on the relative merits of natural vegetation compared to those used to produce bio diesel. Got to draw the line somewhere Gio!!
And all I did was draw peoples attention to a New Scientist article that covered an interesting if negative aspect of the EU's drive for more bio diesel use which has resulted in a greater demand and so the destruction of natural habitat in other parts of the world to feed this EU directive fed demand.
How about as has been sugested you agree to differ on the subject, shake hands for the new year and start afresh.
Just to help I have drawn a line below.
__________________________________________________________________
Just to help I have drawn a line below.
__________________________________________________________________
if what you were saying was true clive, then you would answer
my questions,but you wont/cannot, because it will not suit your
purpose.
but while you are busy attacking the eu for distroying the rain
forest, then i would assume the fact that there are 4 milion cars in brazil, that run on sugarcane, and therefore are also
distroying such large amounts of the same environment, seems to
pass you by. thats right 4 million cars, thats the same amount
of crop damage? as 40 million diesel cars running on a 10% bio
mix, well maybe 60 million diesel cars as remember they do go
futher per gallon.
all you do is quote from the internet. but you have not answered
anything asked of you just quotes... sheep leeding sheep,i thought you might atleast comeback on the photosynthesis... but
then that would make a mockery of you scientific artical,and
how one has to balance the co's being created by fossil fuel,
with what NEW plant life uses of co's,but it doesn't fit in
with your environmental approach,which isn't environmental anyway, and i think a lot of people know that by now.....
Gio For goodness sake PLEASE look at what I have written!
My first post was critical of New Scientist - I described it as the Daily Mail of the scientific journals!
As for the content of the article - if it is true then it is very worrying.
As for photosynthesis - yes I do understand the basics - I even understand some of the more deeper points - for example I still get a buzz from knowing that chlorophyll and haemoglobin are exactly the same molecule apart from the central Mg (Magnesium) in Chlorophyll and Fe (Iron) in Haemoglobin.
I get a buzz from knowing that bryophytes exist in two distinct forms (Alternation of Generations) and that this can still be seen in more evolved plants but here the plant structures form the two generations.
I get a buzz from knowing that the mould Penicillium produces Penicillin and that by adding the relevant side chain Phenyl acetic acid to the fermentation you can produce circa 100 times more than "normal" of PenG which is easily extractable. If you use Phenoxy Acetic Acid you get PenV which is still used for bacterial throat infections.
The wonder of photosynthesis or any other biological "miracle" is NOT the issue - this is just one of your many displacement actions trying to dislodge the logic.
Unfortunately for you, just because the plants that can be used to produce Bio Diesel convert simple chemicals to complex carbohydrates and proteins using the energy of sunlight in exactly the same way as those plants that have existed for millennia in the rain forests, DOES NOT, in my view justify the widespread destruction of such a wondrous natural habitat.
To destroy such habitats so that we can meet a target is truly appalling.
The fact that the EU has set targets for Bio Diesel use WITHOUT being able to produce the raw material from within the EU is regrettable in the extreme.
I am happy to agree to differ on any subject and I am not "attacking" you Gio on any point, but you do scrape the barrel of logic in your efforts to undermine what is the accepted truth that LPG can improve a diesel engines emissions and as a fuel in its own right be less polluting than either petrol or diesel.
The nonsense re Photosynthesis, whether LPG produces as much CO or CO2, Powershift grants cf. Illegal aliens is just so irrelevant.
Modern diesels are good!
Modern petrol engines are good!!
But LPG adds value to both!!!
So come on Gio - my hand is out - lets see if we can agree on that
My first post was critical of New Scientist - I described it as the Daily Mail of the scientific journals!
As for the content of the article - if it is true then it is very worrying.
As for photosynthesis - yes I do understand the basics - I even understand some of the more deeper points - for example I still get a buzz from knowing that chlorophyll and haemoglobin are exactly the same molecule apart from the central Mg (Magnesium) in Chlorophyll and Fe (Iron) in Haemoglobin.
I get a buzz from knowing that bryophytes exist in two distinct forms (Alternation of Generations) and that this can still be seen in more evolved plants but here the plant structures form the two generations.
I get a buzz from knowing that the mould Penicillium produces Penicillin and that by adding the relevant side chain Phenyl acetic acid to the fermentation you can produce circa 100 times more than "normal" of PenG which is easily extractable. If you use Phenoxy Acetic Acid you get PenV which is still used for bacterial throat infections.
The wonder of photosynthesis or any other biological "miracle" is NOT the issue - this is just one of your many displacement actions trying to dislodge the logic.
Unfortunately for you, just because the plants that can be used to produce Bio Diesel convert simple chemicals to complex carbohydrates and proteins using the energy of sunlight in exactly the same way as those plants that have existed for millennia in the rain forests, DOES NOT, in my view justify the widespread destruction of such a wondrous natural habitat.
To destroy such habitats so that we can meet a target is truly appalling.
The fact that the EU has set targets for Bio Diesel use WITHOUT being able to produce the raw material from within the EU is regrettable in the extreme.
I am happy to agree to differ on any subject and I am not "attacking" you Gio on any point, but you do scrape the barrel of logic in your efforts to undermine what is the accepted truth that LPG can improve a diesel engines emissions and as a fuel in its own right be less polluting than either petrol or diesel.
The nonsense re Photosynthesis, whether LPG produces as much CO or CO2, Powershift grants cf. Illegal aliens is just so irrelevant.
Modern diesels are good!
Modern petrol engines are good!!
But LPG adds value to both!!!
So come on Gio - my hand is out - lets see if we can agree on that
Even with the evidence of the DTI, and most governments recognising that LPG is less poluting than diesel or petrol such that the fuel is taxed less and grants are available for conversion - you still try to insinuate that I am somehow a kind of enviromental fraud for running my car on LPG!
Bizarre!
sorry you feel you need to put your hand out,you don't.
i am only asking questions,that i feel should be asked,and
answered. if i had the answers, i would not be asking!
maybe this debate has gone on too long, for that is ALL it was
to me, a debate.
the questions i asked here, are almost the same as i asked myself when there was the BIG push on diesels some 1 and half
decades ago,only for it to become ever more popular, and then all of a sudden the down effects came out.
i note that toyota, the richest of all car manufacturers[rich
enough to buy out even GM]is at the forefront of ALL environmental technologies. they have just brought out a new suv? hybrid. the downside is its high cost, yet i still wonder
why they didn't make it electric and lpg? to off set its high
buying price. its a question i ask, not to have a dig at lpg,
but because its a vehicle build with the environment in mind.
do you see where i am coming from? that will never change,i am
a cynic,but believe there is good cause.i have stated repeatedly
i am not an environment friendly person,but there are too many
schools of thought for me, and the earth has taken such drastic
changes in its billion year life,without fossil fuels dare i
mention,that to single out the combustion engine,to such a degree as is,seems to me at least to be punishing us the normal
persons, rather than the REAL polutters...
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