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Green energy

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Jul 18, 2017
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Why is it that with the so called Green Energy the tariff is higher than the standard rate? We were with a Green Energy supplier, but it went into administration. Strangely enough we have a Smart meter and they do Estimates and Reads?
Also we have not had a single bill this year except the one that arrived today due to the green energy company going into administration. Trying to understand the bill which is split between the original and new supplier is a nightmare and I worked in the industry many years ago. :D
 
May 7, 2012
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Try Octopus, they are competitive, you only get green energy and they even reject the use of buying carbon offsets which some claim is green to boost their figures. They also, as there adverts say, come out top in the which surveys as their service is second to none. Not sure why they do not promote the green bit but if you check the information on their website you can see the facts.
For the rest the answer is probably because they can.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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What I fail to understand is: on some you pay for Energy, others it’s 100% green. And others are varying percentages of green.

How can the suppliers, (who are not really suppliers but simply billers). Differentiate, as the true supply is all down the same wires.

Can anyone explain please.


John
 
Jul 18, 2017
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What I fail to understand is: on some you pay for Energy, others it’s 100% green. And others are varying percentages of green.

How can the suppliers, (who are not really suppliers but simply billers). Differentiate, as the true supply is all down the same wires.

Can anyone explain please.


John
Simple answer is that they cannot differentiate so although you are paying for a green tariff it was probably generated by the power station. Although you live in the West Midlands you may pay BGAS, SPOW etc for your electric which actually comes from the Npower distribution generator as suppliers are only third party billing entities. No supplier generates electric and same applies to gas.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Simple answer is that they cannot differentiate so although you are paying for a green tariff it was probably generated by the power station. Although you live in the West Midlands you may pay BGAS, SPOW etc for your electric which actually comes from the Npower distribution generator as suppliers are only third party billing entities. No supplier generates electric and same applies to gas.
Exactly. So surely they are misrepresenting their offering!

John
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Exactly. So surely they are misrepresenting their offering!

John
Very true but somewhere along the way green energy is fed into the network and becomes part of the supply from the distribution company which is how they get away with it. No supplier can claim to be completely green.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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We are with Octopus Energy on super green so far been very happy with there service :)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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"No supplier can claim to be completely green. "

There is no difference between a green electron or any other type of generated electron, so they all get pushed through the national grid.

There may be times when there is insufficient Green power being produced, and you actually use power generated by non-green producers, but that will be balanced out over time when Green sources have a surplus and the other sources can be reduced.

Ultimately there is no way you can control which power you receive, and its not as if having green and non green electrons contaminates or damages your eqeuipment.

As long as retailer purchases enough green sourced power over time to cover the power their customers actually used, then the power supplied can legitimately be called "Green"
 
Oct 8, 2006
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Octopus can't be bad - they supply M&S as an energy provider as well. I like 'em'

If you don't fancy Octopus then try Ovo. They are Bristol based, maybe a tad more expensive than Octopus, and do listen to you if you ring them. They do however seem to have collected a bit of 'computer says no' as they have grown.

Both Ovo and OE have UK call centres.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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We were with coop energy, they got taken over by Octopus. Good service throughout. 6 plus years.

John
 
Nov 16, 2015
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We recently changedto Bulb, only one trarrif, so no confusion, no escape fees, they do Economy seven still. Supposed to be Green, and you get £50 back if someone you recommend joins.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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We recently changedto Bulb, only one trarrif, so no confusion, no escape fees, they do Economy seven still. Supposed to be Green, and you get £50 back if someone you recommend joins.
I think "Green" is now a by word to make themselves look good. Althouhg they may buy in bulk from a "green" source, the supplier probably has no idea how much their consumers actually use from a "Green" source in a month. It is one big con by a supplier to make you think you are saving the planet. Just think of the environmental damage caused by so called green generators i.e. wind farms, solar panels, tidal generators etc. However I guess we have to start something but "green" energy will probably never supply even 30% of the nation's needs within our lifetimes.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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I think "Green" is now a by word to make themselves look good. Althouhg they may buy in bulk from a "green" source, the supplier probably has no idea how much their consumers actually use from a "Green" source in a month. It is one big con by a supplier to make you think you are saving the planet. Just think of the environmental damage caused by so called green generators i.e. wind farms, solar panels, tidal generators etc. However I guess we have to start something but "green" energy will probably never supply even 30% of the nation's needs within our lifetimes.
OMG, to you really think I may have been conned, I have been connected to working with the oil and Gas Industry for over 40 year, How will I sleep at night.
 
Sep 7, 2020
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I'm with Scottish Power who claim to have their own Wind Farms and claim their tarrif includes 100% green electricty from them. This is a bit of marketing imagination. Firstly the wind doesn't always blow so some turbines are inactive. Secondly at times they will be told to switch them off either due to low demand or excessive wind speeds. In this case the actually get paid more in the way of constraint payments than if they were generating.

FWIW in 2021 so far Wind Farm operators have been paid over £65m to not generate anything.... guess who pays for this? For the whole of 2020 the figure was over £274m

So, when some of the turbines are not operational where do my volts come from.

I chose Scottish Power not because of green issues but cost - it was the best deal I could get.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I'm with Scottish Power who claim to have their own Wind Farms and claim their tarrif includes 100% green electricty from them. This is a bit of marketing imagination. Firstly the wind doesn't always blow so some turbines are inactive. Secondly at times they will be told to switch them off either due to low demand or excessive wind speeds. In this case the actually get paid more in the way of constraint payments than if they were generating.

FWIW in 2021 so far Wind Farm operators have been paid over £65m to not generate anything.... guess who pays for this? For the whole of 2020 the figure was over £274m

So, when some of the turbines are not operational where do my volts come from.

I chose Scottish Power not because of green issues but cost - it was the best deal I could get.
The subsidies for wind and solar were a necessity to promote what was an uneconomic business. Those subsidies have been gradually reduced and now look at the latest prices accepted by wind farm and solar farm generators. Far lower than gas, coal or nuclear per kilowatt. What does ££274 milllion represent as a percentage of the UK energy bill, a small fraction. In addition more storage is coming on line in the form of battery stations. The largest in Europe has just opened in Wiltshire, with more planned. It’s a relatively young industry on its way to maturity so some of these inconsistencies will disappear as new installation contracts or awarded. No one has complained about the boost gas turbine stations that are paid to do nothing for large parts of the time until they are required to meet a over peak demand.
 
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Sep 7, 2020
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Constraint payments are not really subsidies. They are part of the load balancing scheme and apply to both conventional and green generators. It would appear though that the Wind Farm operators get paid more to constrain output than the conventional generators.

Subsidies were initially paid to Wind Farm operators to encourage more sources. However the subsidies were cut back some years ago. When the subsidies were being paid it was estimated that about 6-8% was added to our bills to pay for this. Now that they've been cut back I don't see a reduction in my bills.

We had a contentious meeting a few years back with a Wind Farm operator who want to install turbines in our area. We were not consulted and the first we knew was when they called a community meeting to detail what they were going to do. Naturally there was a lot of objection. Before we had time to make real objections the government withdrew the subsidies and the company pulled out of the scheme - much to our relief.
 
Jan 3, 2012
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We recently changedto Bulb, only one trarrif, so no confusion, no escape fees, they do Economy seven still. Supposed to be Green, and you get £50 back if someone you recommend joins.
That similar with Octopus Energy split £100 with every friend that signs up .
 
Mar 14, 2005
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... Just think of the environmental damage caused by so called green generators i.e. wind farms, solar panels, tidal generators etc. ...
Here we go again!

The environmental damage you keep making reference to pail's into insignificance compared to the environmental damage of extracting coal, oil or gas, its refining, storage, transportation, and burning, to get it from the ground to your homes as electricity.
 
Sep 7, 2020
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I still maintain that not enough emphasis is put onto energy conservation. Similarly with roads. Instead of building more roads which encourages more cars on them - address the problem at the root cause.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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I still maintain that not enough emphasis is put onto energy conservation. Similarly with roads. Instead of building more roads which encourages more cars on them - address the problem at the root cause.
I agree that energy conservation needs to improve. Even as a kid my father fitted his own secondary glazing. As a student and ever since we have always done whatever we could to improve our insulation or heating efficiency, even using the heat shrink plastic film on our student flat. All our houses have been cavity filled and deep loft filling wherever possible. I think I’ve done my bit on conservation although to be honest the main driver was comfort and reduced energy bills.
Re roads I don’t see more roads being a problem as cars are getting cleaner and with EV on the near horizon new cars are/ will be cleaner still. So I can’t really understand why there’s an issue with building and improving roads.
 
Oct 8, 2006
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Did you know that wind turbines also use power?

If you see turbines turning very slowly on an otherwise still day it is because they are being turned by an electric motor that <uses> power. If they did not turn, the various shafts inside the turbine would develop flats and when they speed up again to generate they would shake themselves to pieces due to vibration.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Here we go again!

The environmental damage you keep making reference to pail's into insignificance compared to the environmental damage of extracting coal, oil or gas, its refining, storage, transportation, and burning, to get it from the ground to your homes as electricity.
Whichever way you look at it it is still environmental damage so is not truly green! I did notice that you were selective in only using part of my post and omitting; However I guess we have to start something but "green" energy will probably never supply even 30% of the nation's needs within our lifetimes.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Whichever way you look at it it is still environmental damage so is not truly green! I did notice that you were selective in only using part of my post and omitting; However I guess we have to start something but "green" energy will probably never supply even 30% of the nation's needs within our lifetimes.
I used the quote that offends my sense of balance, in so far you have made this same statement in other threads, and where it has been discussed extensively and extensive evidence to the contrary has been given and carried the balance of the point.

Every human endeavour creates some form of environmental impact. So its not about renewables having zero impact, it's about which has the least impact, and teh only sane way to consider teh issue is to look at whole life impacts.

In the context of energy usage, the biggest and simplest solution would be to use less, but its impractical to take that to its obvious extreme of not using any, so we need to find and use systems that use less energy and produce less environmental impact.

You continue to post remarks that seem to dismiss the efforts and successes of schemes that genuinely do reduce the environmental impact. These are not figures plucked out of the air, they are matters that have been very seriously reviewed in a truly scientific way and do confirm that Watt for Watt wind, solar and wave/tidal do produce far less whole life environmental impact than any fossil fuel system past or present and probably future.

The ability of "green" or renewables energy to meet the UK's power demands, the Governments own publication-
shows on page 12 that renewables are presently (2021) are very close to 30% and are about the same a fossil fuels, with nuclear taking about 20%

There have been occasions in recent years where the renewables in conjunction with nuclear have meant that no fossil fuel electrical production was needed.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Did you know that wind turbines also use power?

If you see turbines turning very slowly on an otherwise still day it is because they are being turned by an electric motor that <uses> power. If they did not turn, the various shafts inside the turbine would develop flats and when they speed up again to generate they would shake themselves to pieces due to vibration.
Really? Do you have some link of evidence for that? On still days, I see LOTS of wind turbines sitting completely idle. On _almost_ still days I see some turbines that are _almost_ still... A quick google search shows no results at all that back up that assertion.

[Edit] - Apart from an article by the daily fail from 2015.
[Edit] - and some turbines (particularly off shore) may use some to prevent the blades icing on still days. So any turbine you see turning in summer, is turning by wind power. However - all generation requires some input, and the input needed by wind is low by other generation standards.

[Edit] - @ Woodentop - sorry that sounded aggressive, and was not meant to be. With hindsight - this makes sense. On a trip to Electric mountain in Snowdonia some years ago, I learned that the turbines there are sometimes brought up to speed and kept at speed from grid electricity just to prepare them for rapid generation. I guess the point is that all generation uses some "starter energy" , whether it be renewable or not. The point is - is the net gain sufficient for the generation to be economic. The answer for wind is an emphatic yes. For coal, oil and coal its an emphatic no. Hence the oil and coal going away and wind proliferating...
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Really? Do you have some link of evidence for that? On still days, I see LOTS of wind turbines sitting completely idle. On _almost_ still days I see some turbines that are _almost_ still... A quick google search shows no results at all that back up that assertion.
It’s not unusual for machinery to be slowly powered to prevent damage. In the marine industry shaft lines may have a small motor and gas turbines may be rotated to prevent “ brinelling “ of roller or ball bearings.
The link states that wind turbines can be driven to prevent damage.

https://www.energywarden.com/how-do-wind-turbines-work-without-wind/#:~:text=It could be just slightly windy; it only,to prevent the blades and gears freezing up.
 
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