Could somebody answer this query. After I have reversed onto a pitch and apply the habdbrake, it never seems to hold the caravan properly. Should I pull forward a touch to enable the handbrake to work properly. Reversing actually puts the brakes out of order. Ken
Handbrake
- Thread starter kenneth_374315528
- Start date
It sounds as though your handbrake system could do with a good overhaul. You say that reversing "puts the brakes out of order"?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, so perhaps you could elaborate.
Basically, when you apply the handbrake, just as you do on your car, it should prevent any movement of the caravan.
You could chock the wheels, before uncoupling, but the fault seems to be with the handbrake itself, and I'd be spending some time finding out what's not working properly.
Only on VERY old couplings was the brake applied when reversing. In fact you used to have to get out and flip a small lever over the front of the drawbar to stop the drawbar spring being compressed and applying the brakes whilst reversing.
What caravan is it by the way?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, so perhaps you could elaborate.
Basically, when you apply the handbrake, just as you do on your car, it should prevent any movement of the caravan.
You could chock the wheels, before uncoupling, but the fault seems to be with the handbrake itself, and I'd be spending some time finding out what's not working properly.
Only on VERY old couplings was the brake applied when reversing. In fact you used to have to get out and flip a small lever over the front of the drawbar to stop the drawbar spring being compressed and applying the brakes whilst reversing.
What caravan is it by the way?
Hi Ken..
The simple answer is that your handbrake should activate the brakes following a reverse manouvre. Pulling forward would not benefit you at all.
Assuming that your van is reasonaly recent it will have a gas strut within the handbrake mechanism, this is there to apply the brake should the caravan start to roll backwards Older systems have a spring energy store and trailers from the 70's have a manual device and no auto-reverse system.
I assume that when you say "it never seems to hold the caravan properly" you mean that the caravan can be pushed backwards and not forwards. This being the case would suggest that the brakes on your van have not been adjusted correctly.
A lot of people will use the handbrake lever whilst adjusting the brakes as it would appear to be the easiest way to set up for adjusting the auto-reverse. However the handbrake lever pulls the brake rod beyond the point that the hitch would and therefore if the handbrake is used to adjust for the auto-reverse you will almost certainly disable the handbrake operation in the backwards direction...
If you get your van on level solid ground and apply the handbrake, the lever should come about half way up. You should not be able to pull the van forward!! If you push the van backwards it should move a foot or so before the brakes apply and the handbrake lever should move to an almost verticle position You should now NOT be able to move the van in either direction.If you can you should be looking to have the brakes set up correctly..
Regards Brian.........
The simple answer is that your handbrake should activate the brakes following a reverse manouvre. Pulling forward would not benefit you at all.
Assuming that your van is reasonaly recent it will have a gas strut within the handbrake mechanism, this is there to apply the brake should the caravan start to roll backwards Older systems have a spring energy store and trailers from the 70's have a manual device and no auto-reverse system.
I assume that when you say "it never seems to hold the caravan properly" you mean that the caravan can be pushed backwards and not forwards. This being the case would suggest that the brakes on your van have not been adjusted correctly.
A lot of people will use the handbrake lever whilst adjusting the brakes as it would appear to be the easiest way to set up for adjusting the auto-reverse. However the handbrake lever pulls the brake rod beyond the point that the hitch would and therefore if the handbrake is used to adjust for the auto-reverse you will almost certainly disable the handbrake operation in the backwards direction...
If you get your van on level solid ground and apply the handbrake, the lever should come about half way up. You should not be able to pull the van forward!! If you push the van backwards it should move a foot or so before the brakes apply and the handbrake lever should move to an almost verticle position You should now NOT be able to move the van in either direction.If you can you should be looking to have the brakes set up correctly..
Regards Brian.........
Brian,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was lead to believe that when your car brakes it aplies the van brakes. If after you stop then reverse it would aply the van brakes, so to get over this the van brakes rotate alowing the van to reverse. Now if you aply the hand brake at this point there are no brakes on the van that will work, so by pulling the van forward engages the brakes again so that the hand brake can be aplied.
As I say that is what I have been lead to believe if I am wrong will some one explain the system to me please.
Graham W.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was lead to believe that when your car brakes it aplies the van brakes. If after you stop then reverse it would aply the van brakes, so to get over this the van brakes rotate alowing the van to reverse. Now if you aply the hand brake at this point there are no brakes on the van that will work, so by pulling the van forward engages the brakes again so that the hand brake can be aplied.
As I say that is what I have been lead to believe if I am wrong will some one explain the system to me please.
Graham W.
On the same lines as Kenneth's query I have heard a similar thing mentioned as to whether you should reverse onto leveling ramps or drive onto them for the same reversing brake engaging problem.
I asumed the issue was with the change in braking assembiles with older vans which is now ok.
I asumed the issue was with the change in braking assembiles with older vans which is now ok.
Hi.
I'm not best gud wiv da wurds.... Victim of a comprehensive education many dacades ago,, don't you know.
But here goes.. a bit long winded I'm afraid..
The brakes of your van are applied by the hitch moving in.. This is caused by either the caravan catching the car whilst slowing down (forwards) OR by the car reversing. Either way the movement of the hitch is the same.
There is a damper within the draw tube (the bit that slides) that pushes onto a lever that piviots and pulls the brake rod.
In the brake assembly's (within the drums) is a mechanism that detects when the wheels are turning backwards and allows the brake shoes to move (reduce in diameter slightly), such that the brakes are effectivly relieced, all but a little friction. This is the Auto-Reverse mechanismn.
However when the handbrake is applied it over rides the control of the hitch and draw tube and puts enough force on the brake rod to operate the brakes from whatever position they were in when the wheels stopped turning.
If the wheels stopped turning forwards then the handbrake will not need to pull the rod too far before the brakes operate.
HOWEVER once applied in this manor the wheels are only prevented from rotating forwards, so a gas strut is fitted to the handbrake level and will apply a constant pressure on the brakes. Should the wheels turn backwards then the Auto-Reverse mechanisnm's will operate. But becuse the handbrake lever can pull the brake rod further than the hitch and draw tube can this still allow the handbrake to lock the wheels from turning backwards, all be it only after a short initial movement..
Rubix..
If you read the recent series of articles in the Mag "Beginers guide" it instructed you to PULL you van onto the levelling ramps and then chock the wheel.
Who writes this stuff ??
Forget to chock the wheel and you might as well book into the local A+E.
If you PULL your van onto a ramp and apply the handbrake The wheels are free to turn backwards so therefore if you are standing by the hitch on the side of the ramp, when you remove it from your car Gravity is going to take your van back down the ramp and the front is going to swing towards you (ever been hit by 1.5 tonnes driven by gravity??) The longer your ramp the further it will go. the steeper the ramp the quicker it will go.
If in this situation only one wheel rotates then it is very posible that the handbrake will not be able to lock this wheel. as the balance bar (the bit that joins the brake rod to the individual brake cables (just in front of the axle)) is only short and may not allow suficient cable movement on the rotating wheel to overcome the auto-reverse mechanism..
All dependant of corse on how well your brakes have been set up in the first place..
Best to reverse onto the ramp as the handbrake will always be able to prevent the wheels from rotating forwards and if the last movement was backwards then both of the auto-reverse mechanismn's will be overcome by the hand brake anyway..
If you are still reading and have not switched off..
Hope that this has made some sence and helps..
Regards Brian........
I'm not best gud wiv da wurds.... Victim of a comprehensive education many dacades ago,, don't you know.
But here goes.. a bit long winded I'm afraid..
The brakes of your van are applied by the hitch moving in.. This is caused by either the caravan catching the car whilst slowing down (forwards) OR by the car reversing. Either way the movement of the hitch is the same.
There is a damper within the draw tube (the bit that slides) that pushes onto a lever that piviots and pulls the brake rod.
In the brake assembly's (within the drums) is a mechanism that detects when the wheels are turning backwards and allows the brake shoes to move (reduce in diameter slightly), such that the brakes are effectivly relieced, all but a little friction. This is the Auto-Reverse mechanismn.
However when the handbrake is applied it over rides the control of the hitch and draw tube and puts enough force on the brake rod to operate the brakes from whatever position they were in when the wheels stopped turning.
If the wheels stopped turning forwards then the handbrake will not need to pull the rod too far before the brakes operate.
HOWEVER once applied in this manor the wheels are only prevented from rotating forwards, so a gas strut is fitted to the handbrake level and will apply a constant pressure on the brakes. Should the wheels turn backwards then the Auto-Reverse mechanisnm's will operate. But becuse the handbrake lever can pull the brake rod further than the hitch and draw tube can this still allow the handbrake to lock the wheels from turning backwards, all be it only after a short initial movement..
Rubix..
If you read the recent series of articles in the Mag "Beginers guide" it instructed you to PULL you van onto the levelling ramps and then chock the wheel.
Who writes this stuff ??
Forget to chock the wheel and you might as well book into the local A+E.
If you PULL your van onto a ramp and apply the handbrake The wheels are free to turn backwards so therefore if you are standing by the hitch on the side of the ramp, when you remove it from your car Gravity is going to take your van back down the ramp and the front is going to swing towards you (ever been hit by 1.5 tonnes driven by gravity??) The longer your ramp the further it will go. the steeper the ramp the quicker it will go.
If in this situation only one wheel rotates then it is very posible that the handbrake will not be able to lock this wheel. as the balance bar (the bit that joins the brake rod to the individual brake cables (just in front of the axle)) is only short and may not allow suficient cable movement on the rotating wheel to overcome the auto-reverse mechanism..
All dependant of corse on how well your brakes have been set up in the first place..
Best to reverse onto the ramp as the handbrake will always be able to prevent the wheels from rotating forwards and if the last movement was backwards then both of the auto-reverse mechanismn's will be overcome by the hand brake anyway..
If you are still reading and have not switched off..
Hope that this has made some sence and helps..
Regards Brian........
Thanks Bri-C.
That made sense to me, and the incident happened to me while a guy was being nice and giving me advice on my first trip out and I forgot to chock, no A&E trip though, I caught it in time (and small leveling block too).
I wasn't sure if your info refered to older, or newer vans only.
I have seen differing advice stating driving on and reversing on with advice why, so which is right ??
That made sense to me, and the incident happened to me while a guy was being nice and giving me advice on my first trip out and I forgot to chock, no A&E trip though, I caught it in time (and small leveling block too).
I wasn't sure if your info refered to older, or newer vans only.
I have seen differing advice stating driving on and reversing on with advice why, so which is right ??
Hi again..
Rubix..
Glad you got away without A&E, but as you found out it happens..
A little trailer brakes history for you ( dates closeISH )
Pre 1982. I think without checking. there was no Auto-reverse mechanismn and you had to flip a lever or catch on the hitch to stop it being pushed in when reversing. (spring loaded so flipped itself out when you next moved forward)
Post 1982 but pre 1990 ish. Auto-reverse mechanismns but the handbrake had a spring energy store. so you had to pull the handbrake lever fully up everytime and compressing a spring that would then operate the brakes further if the wheels turned backwards.
Post 1990 ish. Auto-reverse mechanismns, but a Gas strut loading the handbrake lever in stead of a spring energy store so no more pulling like mad..
As for forwards or backwards onto a ramp ??
Personally speaking it has to be backwards every time....
If you want to pull forwards onto the ramp, feel free to do so AND DON'T FORGET THE CHOCK....
But you might consider pre-booking the Amulance..
Regrds Brian........
Rubix..
Glad you got away without A&E, but as you found out it happens..
A little trailer brakes history for you ( dates closeISH )
Pre 1982. I think without checking. there was no Auto-reverse mechanismn and you had to flip a lever or catch on the hitch to stop it being pushed in when reversing. (spring loaded so flipped itself out when you next moved forward)
Post 1982 but pre 1990 ish. Auto-reverse mechanismns but the handbrake had a spring energy store. so you had to pull the handbrake lever fully up everytime and compressing a spring that would then operate the brakes further if the wheels turned backwards.
Post 1990 ish. Auto-reverse mechanismns, but a Gas strut loading the handbrake lever in stead of a spring energy store so no more pulling like mad..
As for forwards or backwards onto a ramp ??
Personally speaking it has to be backwards every time....
If you want to pull forwards onto the ramp, feel free to do so AND DON'T FORGET THE CHOCK....
But you might consider pre-booking the Amulance..
Regrds Brian........
I have been reading all your comments but I don't think you see what I am getting at. Let me try and put it another way.
Whenever you start to reverse the caravan (with the car) the brakes automatically become disengaged, therefore I would have thought the handbrake would become inoperable also until the caravan wheels had started to turn forward again. Does that make any more sense?
Whenever you start to reverse the caravan (with the car) the brakes automatically become disengaged, therefore I would have thought the handbrake would become inoperable also until the caravan wheels had started to turn forward again. Does that make any more sense?
I'm not following you at all.
Whether you travel forwards OR backwards with the caravan the brakes SHOULD be free, otherwise the caravan wouldn't move. The motion of the vehicle when travelling forwards, and then braking is enough to apply the drawbar braking mechanism to bring both car and caravan to a safe stop.
When reversing, however, you will be travelling at a very slow speed, which is not enough to compress the drawbar brake. So the brakes are free, as designed. If they weren't, your caravan wouldn't go backwards when you reverse.
When you have stopped, and finished with moving the caravan, then the handbrake can be applied. The two mechanisms, although connected, are seperate to each other in function. The main brakes operate via the drawbar. The handbrake operates with a cable or rod/s in most cases.
That is why I am sure your caravan handbrake is defective. It should hold the van firmly once applied. I think you are confusing the two systems.
Whether you travel forwards OR backwards with the caravan the brakes SHOULD be free, otherwise the caravan wouldn't move. The motion of the vehicle when travelling forwards, and then braking is enough to apply the drawbar braking mechanism to bring both car and caravan to a safe stop.
When reversing, however, you will be travelling at a very slow speed, which is not enough to compress the drawbar brake. So the brakes are free, as designed. If they weren't, your caravan wouldn't go backwards when you reverse.
When you have stopped, and finished with moving the caravan, then the handbrake can be applied. The two mechanisms, although connected, are seperate to each other in function. The main brakes operate via the drawbar. The handbrake operates with a cable or rod/s in most cases.
That is why I am sure your caravan handbrake is defective. It should hold the van firmly once applied. I think you are confusing the two systems.
Just a quick addition to further try and clarify this for you.
Your Handbrake should be able to be applied at any time. Think of it as a parking brake, that's all it is. (It's basically just the same as you have on your car). It's to hold the caravan in place once you remove the towing vehicle.
Your MAIN caravan brakes do not operate until the drawbar spring is compressed, which happens by braking when you are travelling forwards during your normal journey and need to stop (say for a set of traffic lights). The weight of the caravan pushing against the towbar compresses the spring inside the drawbar, and applies the MAIN caravan brakes.
Just like on a car. The brakes are behind the wheels. The MAIN brakes won't operate unless you push the brake pedal, but you can use the handbrake at any time when the car is stationary, to prevent it from rolling forwards or backwards. Say again, at a set of traffic lights, when you are on a slight incline.
Your Handbrake should be able to be applied at any time. Think of it as a parking brake, that's all it is. (It's basically just the same as you have on your car). It's to hold the caravan in place once you remove the towing vehicle.
Your MAIN caravan brakes do not operate until the drawbar spring is compressed, which happens by braking when you are travelling forwards during your normal journey and need to stop (say for a set of traffic lights). The weight of the caravan pushing against the towbar compresses the spring inside the drawbar, and applies the MAIN caravan brakes.
Just like on a car. The brakes are behind the wheels. The MAIN brakes won't operate unless you push the brake pedal, but you can use the handbrake at any time when the car is stationary, to prevent it from rolling forwards or backwards. Say again, at a set of traffic lights, when you are on a slight incline.
Kenneth, years ago couplings/hitches had no auto reverse facility and the brakes were applied when reversing unless a lever was flicked into place to stop the coupling head moving back,but modern technology has brought us the aforementioned auto-reverse system which eliminated that, and as others have said whether moving backwards or forwards the handbrake is a secondary brake if you get my meaning.In a nutshell you dont have to pull forward to have the handbrake operate correctly, again as others have said,your braking system needs looking at.
I have taken all everybody has said. I am changing my van on Thursday so I will see if I still have the same problem with that one. Ken
To put it yet another way.......When I have watched the engineer service the brakes on my van he lifts the wheel clear of the ground, then applies the handbrake. He then tries to rotate the wheel forwards and it will not move. He then tries to rotate the wheeel backwards and quess what....it turns.
Brum
Brum
I have a trailer fitted with Bradley axles (auto-reverse) and a Bradley coupling, and after unhitching the trailer I apply the handbrake, but it will still move back a couple of inches and then the brake automatically kicks in and the handbrake lever can be seen moving up another notch. Quite clever methinks.
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