He snaked and turned over - why should he not be surprised??

[Colinn]

This month's Caravan Club mag relates the story of a caravanner who rolled his outfit after a snake. He survived (his wrecked car and van didn't...) but asks why did it happen...

In brief, the guy loaded his caravan with 18 bottles of wine at the back, chased a lorry to the top of a French motorway hill, started to lose the speed battle over the brow, and then accelerated to about 60mph to get by, going downhill with crosswinds! Inevitably, he lost all...

This is a guy with 20 years experience of towing caravans. In my opinion he has not learned much in those 20 years. Everything about this situation had disaster written all over it and I would suggest that anyone in such a situation should read the signals and back off well before the critical point arrives.

In my experience, going downhill at the 60mph mark with a lorry at your side pushing the air towards you is the most dangerous scenario of all. The rule book for weights and ratios go out of the window if drivers don't have the common sense to take account of prevailing and potentially dangerous conditions.

If you find yourself in this situation, for goodness sake hold back. Or would you push on like this hapless guy did?

 

[mcghee]

I've actually had this criticism of 'vans with fixed beds at the rear since they first became popular. Having a massive storage space like that, and right in the wrong place, is bound to invite disaster. No matter how experienced and sensible people may be there is still the temptation to do exactly what this guy did. If he genuinely doesn't know what went wrong he may be better using travelodges in future.

 

[Lol1]

Something similar to this happened to me a few years ago. I had been slowly catching a HGV while on the M1 when it started to rain. We had come to long downhill stretch and I decided to overtake. I wasn't in any particular rush, just wanted to get home after a weekend away.

I drew level with the truck, but it seemed to pick up a little extra speed, 65mph was seeing me stuck level with it. The road spray was getting quite bad but the wipers were coping, I thought it best to gain speed in order to get clear.

By the time I was past I was doing 70 (on the clock) and was looking back to pull in. It was at that point that I saw the caravan snaking on the back. It must have happened as I cleared the truck, as along side it, all had been well apart from some buffeting.

So did my many years of towing help in this situation? No, not really. I had done the normal checks before starting off, loaded sensibly and checked nose weight, both car and van were in very good condition, both only a year old, but this was my first ever snake. I had no "honed" snake dealing with skills. The best I could do and remember was to slow down gradually. In the end, there were no dramatic, cheek clenching moments and all i can contribute that too is my choice of tow car. A Suzuki Grand Vitara V6, which weighed considerably more than my caravan.

So the moral of the story is, get the basics right to begin with and if for once, common sense does desert you, it's not going to be the end of the world.

 

[rayc]

A good rule of thumb is to use the same speed and gear going down a hill as you would going up it. Most lorries both in the UK and on the continent are doing 55 mphm or so and will exceed that on down hill stretches. Beware of overtaking them at the crest of a hill as they will pick up speed and you then have no choice but to either go faster { not recommended] or drop back in behind them [loose face but far safer].

 

[Lutz]

18 bottles of wine in the back is not to the point if he had 36 bottles of wine in the front or something else to hold the noseweight down. But, anyone accelerating when driving downhill and that while at the same time overtaking a lorry is inviting disaster. Even then, he could have caught the snake if he had reacted properly. No snake inevitably leads to an accident if you do things right. Like you said, he didn't learn too much in 20 years.

 

[cris_408518]

Were away from home so I cant get to the article.

My memory is that the guy reported that the lorry pulled away at the top of a hill and he then acclerated to get past on the downhill run. The guy had not checked his nose weight and only seemed to be guessing at the weight he was towing with a 1600 or so kg car.

I dont't believe that 18 badly placed bottles of wine were his problem. He seemed to have not checked very much from what I remember and then tried to race past a truck.

The wind bow wave of the truck as it gathered speed would increase and often as the caravan passes the wave pushes the van.

There was also no mention of the type of tow car, the recent reports on poor stability of 4x4 and some people carrier/MPV may have given a pointer to the problem.

After years of caravanning and with no idea on his noseweight or what actual weight he might be towing.

Plonker factor seems to over rule any other factor in the accident.

 

[Angus1]

18 bottles of wine?

Where were the rest?

 

[Colinn]

18 bottles of wine?

Where were the rest?

spread all over the carriageway in the end...that's another tragedy...terrible waste!

 

[Lutz]

By all accounts he got everything wrong with his setup, making it very liable to instability but why, oh why, did he not do anything about the snake when it became obvious that it was about to happen? People who plough on regardless like that deserve to have their driving licence taken off them.

Another good reason for the electronic stabiliser. It's foolproof, even in those conditions, because at least it will react immediately when a snake is imminent, even if the driver doesn't.

 

[Berty3]

I think if you read between the lines this article was a little prefabricated tongue in cheek to get us all thinking.

1/ Prevention is better than cure.

2/ Never be complacent, no matter how many years you have been towing a caravan.

3/ load carefully, be aware of the dangers of "back loading" with a fixed bed layout.

4/ Never take it for granted always check your nose weight on each and every outing.

5/ Never try to take advantage of a down hill stretch on a motorway by increasing speed to overtake, in most instances it is far better to slightly reduce your speed, and wait for a level, uphill stretch to complete your overtaking manoeuvre, most HGV'S will be able to reach far in excess of 70mph by "knocking it out of stick" free wheeling on a downhill stretch of motorway, With 44tons helping there momentum.

Perhaps a timely reminder with summer only just around the corner!

Could you give me details of your stabiliser please Lutz.

Berty...

 

[Lutz]

I'm still away from home so the only information that I've got on the electronic stabiliser at the moment is what's on my laptop. It's a translation of the retail information that the manufacturer put out for the German market.

Maybe it'll at least give you some idea of what it's all about:

Electronic stabiliser information

There was also a feature article on the previous model in the June 2004 issue of PC magazine:

June 2004 Feature article

The principle is still the same except that the old model relied on a preloaded spring to apply the brakes whereas the new one is directly actuated by an electric motor.

AlKo are also in the process of introducing a similar system (they call it ATC, AlKo Trailer Control) but it's not universally applicable.

 

[Berty3]

I'm still away from home so the only information that I've got on the electronic stabiliser at the moment is what's on my laptop. It's a translation of the retail information that the manufacturer put out for the German market.

Maybe it'll at least give you some idea of what it's all about:

Electronic stabiliser information

There was also a feature article on the previous model in the June 2004 issue of PC magazine:

June 2004 Feature article

The principle is still the same except that the old model relied on a preloaded spring to apply the brakes whereas the new one is directly actuated by an electric motor.

AlKo are also in the process of introducing a similar system (they call it ATC, AlKo Trailer Control) but it's not universally applicable.

Thank you very much for the information Lutz, not had chance to have a proper look as yet, work and all the rest of it

Thanks Berty......

 

[Colinn]

Hi Bertie,

If you're suggesting that the article was not genuine - ie fabricated to illustrate a point - then I think someone needs to have a word with the Editor. I for one want to be confident that what I am reading in the CC mag is genuine. Anything else destroys the magazine/club's itegrity and credibility; in other words if I can't believe this article then why should I believe anything on the other pages??

I prefer to believe it is genuine - but I do agree that it's a timely reminder for us all...regards,

Colinn

 

[Berty3]

I would suggest Colin that it is an amalgamation of many similar Questions that are put to the caravan club re snaking on a regular basis, re read it again very carefully, the club has brought home very tactfully some very major important points, with excellent timing before we all take to the road once again with our caravans for the holiday season.

Berty...

 

[AnnM1]

I read this article and checked my diary. I could have sworn it was a windup, but found it wasn't the 1st April after all. As Berty says - was it a timely piece of print to remind everyone on safety aspects. I still can't believe it was a serious article!

 

[Lutz]

The article seemed serious enough but the letter from the so-called correspondent was almost certainly fictious and construed to prove a point.

 

[Garfield]

I don't know if anyone else remembers a letter in the cc magazine from someone who had a brand new Discovery towing a new

 

[Steve L]

The morral of the story realy is a timely reminder to all people who tow trailers, be they caravans or boats or racing cars and even so called proffessional lorry drivers, to be aware of both loading and driving appropriately. And before anyone start's, I hold LGV class 1.

There are far too many drivers who "fly by the seat of their pants" out on the road and inevitably they get into a dodgy position by being over zelous about their capability to drive.

What people need to do is think about their actions and plan for the "what if" senario.

As a trained advanced motorist and a ROSPA catagory 1 driver I've been trained to observe with far more detail what is going on not only ahead of me but 360 degrees around my vehicle.

One such example is, if you should seee a lady looking in her interior mirror checking her make up (sorry girls) what do they do next? Answer. Nine times out of ten, open the drivers door wide and hop out of the car without looking. This is also a man thing with lorry drivers as they tend to jump out of the cab rather than use the steps which put's them a good 5 foot away from the side of the lorry and right in the path of passing traffic.

I'll tell you what though, the look of fright as they realise you're less than a foot away from running them over is amazing!!

Through my training, I have managed so far to be able to stop without locking the wheels up and that realy scares the sh-1-t out of them as they turn round to walk off and crack their shins on the front bumper.

However I did see one pratt a few years ago run a poor old lady over as he shot the red light in his Vauxhall chevette. He scooped her up onto the bonnet which didn't do too much damage to her but then proceeded to slam the brakes on in panic and catapolt her 150 yards up the road on her face. I won't go into graphic detail but just say what a mess and all cused by a none-thinking moron!!

 

[Lol1]

That's great Steve, if we could all plan ahead we could avoid all problems. But life isn't like that, is it? Ask any biker, most of them watch cars pulling out of junctions, down to the minutest detail. Yet they still manage to end up in door of the car or over the bonnet. It's not necessarily what you do that causes difficulties, but rather the action of those you have no control over. The most you can realistically do is be vigilant and have the best and most appropriate equipment you can afford. Everything else is a gamble.

 

[cris_408518]

If no one was let on the road with 4 wheels until they had learnt to ride a bike and passed that test the roads would be a far safer place.

The IAM training especially on bikes does teach you some very valid observation and positioning pointers to enhance yor chances of safety on the roads.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Looks like good news as the old Cycling Proficiency Test which taught a lot of us at and early age the basic road sense which I'm sure you keep with you in later life is about to return as Bikeability.

http://www.bikeability.org.uk/
I remember I was not allowed to cycle to school until it was passed and I'm sure its return will have an effect on road safety.

Brian

 

[Lutz]

Really? Never been on a bike myself so I can't say but then I may have just been lucky in my 40 years of motoring (especially considering that this includes towing with a weight ratio of over 100% during the first 10 years of my caravanning career).

 

[Steve L]

Been there got that shirt Lol, and have a replacement knee joint to show for forgetting about Black Ice when dogging my Kawasaki 1300 and then decelerating.

So you see having my lights out (coma) for 3 weeks did teach me to think.

I'm afraid these days with all the gadgets and gizmo's people just do not take a few seconds to plan for emergencey.

Just take the kit I carry in my car for example, and it is all stowed away without loosing boot space.

Tow rope

Fixed towing bar

Emergencey Traingle

Hi Viz waste coat

Leather work gloves

Jump Leads

Fire extinguisher

First aid kit

Extendable wheel nut brace for those stuburn nuts 1/2 inch drive to help tool kit too.

12v Air pump

Wind up torch

Mobile phone and 12v adaptor

Bottle jack for the van

Road map and sat nav

60 piece brief case tool kit

Sure I've added 30Kgs to the car, but just "think" how usefull even half of that would in an emergencey.

It's called basic "what if" planning.

 

[cris_408518]

I was of course talking Motor Bike, but my kids did their 'Cycling Proficiency' test at the local village school and we saw kids at the same school doing the test a few weeks ago.

Teaching kids about road use and its dangers before they get a powered vehicle can only be to everyones advantage.

If you've never ridden a Motor Bike on the road Lutz you should be banned from the road along with many others ;-)

 

[clivea]

Hi, One of the key messages taught at the CC Caravanning Course that I attended was not how fast your car could go uphill but to ease off when you crested the hill and ensure that you try not to get into an overtake going downhill. In Fance the downhill streches of autoroute have windsocks on exposed sections to aid vanners and trucks.

Other Clive