HELP! ON SITE AND TOILET WON'T OPEN

[Robert_5063387]

Hi, we are onsite now... and thetford cassette toilet won't open - its an older type with knob that u push to flush and rotate to open trap - when you try to open trap it won't - just stuck.. i have tried removing it and replacing but no luck ... still resistance on opener... help...

Ta

 

[Damian]

Robert, take the cassette out of the toilet, and use a pair of pliers on the blade operating mechanism to free it up.

Do NOT put excess pressure on the operating knob in the caravan, it will break the forked prong atthe end!!

The blade operating mechanism on the cassette is a round "button" with a straight raised bar across the top.

Use silicone spray to lubricate it.

 

[cris_408518]

The Blade tends to stick to the outer bowls seal.

You are likely to need to free the seal all the way around the hole at the bottom of the bowl. Once free, water with washing up liquid will help lubricate it if you do not have silicone spray to hand. If you can remove the cassete and the blade machanism moves freely the problems is the blades ticking to the the outer bowl.

As said, do not force the handle or it will break down inside at the bottom of its connecting shaft.

 

[Cerbera]

Please tell me you are not doing all this with a 'full bowl' so to speak!!

 

[mcghee]

Yes, you will have to pull the cassette out and take the consequences!

 

[Robert_5063387]

No its completely empty first time we have used van after winter break - i lubed with vegetable oil last season and have had no problems like this before..

How much pressure can the mechanism take when pulled out - will it break it really bad if really stuck or is quite strong... I have defiantely removed from the van already and tried with my fingers already..

It was a bad day yesterday so we just abandoned the van and went and stayed with relatives so going back in a while to see if we can get things working..

Thanks for all the speedy help!!! it was much appreciated

 

[LMH]

I don't want to appear to be making light of your predicament, but haven't they got toilets on the campsite? It just seems such a shame that you had to leave your van and go and stop with relatives.

I hope you get it sorted out.

All the best.

Lisa

 

[JTQ]

It sounds like the seal has bonded to the vane [sliding blade].

Not uncommon, been there, next winter leave it open a bit so it is not in pressurised contact.

However thats no help now. I think I would try to break the bond by using a piece of bent wire. Coat hanger might be a bit thick but is an option. Bend a 2cm "L" at its bottom and file the end round to avoid sharp edges. Force the short leg between the seal and blade and then slowly and carefully work it all the way round the seal cicumference easing the seal from the blade. It should then open okay. Ther is a possible risk the seal is or will be damaged but you can easily change that later. Might mean carrying the cassette to the emptying point untill you do but your in business for the holiday so to speak. John

 

[JTQ]

It sounds like the seal has bonded to the vane [sliding blade].

Not uncommon, been there, next winter leave it open a bit so it is not in pressurised contact.

However thats no help now. I think I would try to break the bond by using a piece of bent wire. Coat hanger might be a bit thick but is an option. Bend a 2cm "L" at its bottom and file the end round to avoid sharp edges. Force the short leg between the seal and blade and then slowly and carefully work it all the way round the seal cicumference easing the seal from the blade. It should then open okay. Ther is a possible risk the seal is or will be damaged but you can easily change that later. Might mean carrying the cassette to the emptying point untill you do but your in business for the holiday so to speak. John

Carrying it level I meant. Make sure the wire is between the seals lip and the blade. A bit of Olive oil on the seal will help in future.

 

[ThePlotter]

Being an old timer i still have feeler guages for checking spark plugs these would be thiner enough to do job if you have some.

 

[JTQ]

Feelers would be an excellent tool for the job; 28thou?. Good thought.

 

[Damian]

Robert, you can safely use pliers or pipe wrench on the cassette operating button, finger pressure just is not going to do it.

The problem has beeen caused by using vegetable oil on the seal over winter, and it will need changing now that it has started sticking, it will just rapidly deteriorate from now on.

The only lubricant Thetford recommend is silicone lube, NOT veg oil and certainly NOT vaseline.

 

[cris_408518]

Advising that you can use a pipe wrench or pliers is not suitable on any Thetford cassette toilet I've ever seen.

If it is the type I think, there is a screw of the self tapping style at the bottom of the shaft of the turn knob. Strongs hands will twist the bottom fork of the plastic shaft and pull away from the screw.

I know as I've done it :-(

The problem can be caused by pressure and I doubt that veg oil or the scenario Damian paints is correct. As you stand at the front of the bowl pressing the flap at the front with a blunt object with some force might be needed to free the seal before the likes of feeler gauge or blunt edged knife can be used to free it.

We had the same with a cassette that had never been used, there was no need to replace anything!

 

[Damian]

In reply to cris, I am not saying use pliers or pipe wrench on the turn mechanism in the van. I am saying you can use either on the cassette once it is out of the van.

As for the veg oil and vaseline and not using them, having just recently come back home from a Thetford training course, I think I know what I am talking about.

 

[Robert_5063387]

Hey thanks for all the advice.. you will be please to know just a bit more brute force actually forced it open and we a back in "business".

I was just being a little bit wimpy with the turn as i wasn;t sure how fragile the mech was..

I used veg oil because I am sure I read in loads of tips that it would keep it lubricated without rotting the seals so a bit gutted that proactiveness might have caused this :-(

Very grateful to all for your useful comments perhaps except that "couldn't you have used the campsite toilets." Yes you can but perhaps there were other things that made it not pratical - but we are enjoying our holiday now.. despite the toilet situation, losing my wallet with all my cards and 50quid, the cold water tap pipe dislodging itself and emptying water in a cupboard, the electric at the post tripping off a few times, our kettle breaking, the battery not charging and running down so no lights for a while.... phew... oh and the gas running out during dinner...

So inspite of all that still smiling... golden rule don't go away without preperation i am normally very good and test everything but this year thought all was ok normally... thanks again one and all

 

[JTQ]

I was suprised by Damian's comment that I could not use vegtable oil as I had rememmber my hand book specifically stated Olive Oil as I passed on. So I have checked and it does state:

"Note! Never use vaseline or any vetable oil except olive oil.

These may cause leakage.

If the toilet will not be used for a long period, it is advisable to clean the seals and coat them lightly with olive oil. This will ensure that they remain in good condition (supple)."

I checked on there web site and for the C2,C3 C4 and C400, this is still the case. Interestingly only for the C200 do they only recommend their own product Thetford Seal Lubricant. Nowhere am I finding silicone products being mentioned let alone recommended. Personally I have used olive oil since my first Thetford Porta Potty over 30 years ago; its still occassionaly sees the light of day when the awning is used for visitors and only once has it had to have a new seal and that was in its early life.

 

[Damian]

Taken directly from the Thetford site:

For cleaning your toilet:

* Squirt Thetford Bathroom Cleaner in the toilet.

* Flush the bowl with water and wipe down the rest of the toilet with a damp cloth.

Tip! For a really shining toilet, dry it with a soft dry cloth after cleaning.

* Thoroughly clean the seals and valve blade, using Thetford Seal Lubricant and wipe them over with a cloth or a piece of toilet paper. Repeat the above operation if the seal and blade are dirty or if opening and closing the blade is difficult.

Note! Never use Vaseline or any vegetable oil. These may cause leakage.

When the toilet is not being used for a long period, it is advisable to clean the seals and then coat them lightly with Thetford Seal Lubricant. This will ensure that they remain in good condition (supple).

 

[JTQ]

Taken directly from the Thetford site:

For cleaning your toilet:

* Squirt Thetford Bathroom Cleaner in the toilet.

* Flush the bowl with water and wipe down the rest of the toilet with a damp cloth.

Tip! For a really shining toilet, dry it with a soft dry cloth after cleaning.

* Thoroughly clean the seals and valve blade, using Thetford Seal Lubricant and wipe them over with a cloth or a piece of toilet paper. Repeat the above operation if the seal and blade are dirty or if opening and closing the blade is difficult.

Note! Never use Vaseline or any vegetable oil. These may cause leakage.

When the toilet is not being used for a long period, it is advisable to clean the seals and then coat them lightly with Thetford Seal Lubricant. This will ensure that they remain in good condition (supple).

So they speak with a forked tongue;

I also quoted directly from their downloadable Owners Manuals from the web site.

Or just maybe they are in selling mode?

 

[Damian]

JTQ, I do not think they speak with forked tonge, well, not deliberately anyway.

The user manuals have been copied directly to the web, and as the basic mechanism has not changed much over many years, the information "at the time the manuals were produced" was correct, and they did say the use of olive oil was ok. BUT, and its a big but, as more analysis was done relating to failure of seals etc, it was discovered that many people just used any old veg oil, whilst very few actually wanted to use expensive Olive oil, and further investigation revealed that any veg oil was detrimental to the rubber blade and lip seal over time.

Thetfords own lubricant is a silicone based product, and of course they want to sell their own brand, but any silicone spray lube is just as good.

On the site, under Products, maintainence tips, they have updated the info to the latest best advice, but havent got around to amending the User Manuals,,,,,,,yet.

 

[gary]

Interestingly Carver have always recommended vegetable oil as a lubricant for their seals!, problem I have had with veg oil is it's benefits are short lived while silicone is 100% water proof and therefore lasts a great deal longer.

Of course veg oil is alway readily available while silicone and perhaps olive oil is not.

What I don't agree with though is stopping the advice that olive oil is ok when infact it is. Why cannot facts be clearly stated and leave it to the individual with sense to understand the facts without having his intelligence insulted.

After all, once some known incorrect advice is given, why pay any respect to the rest?

 

[dougdotcom]

Interestingly Carver have always recommended vegetable oil as a lubricant for their seals!, problem I have had with veg oil is it's benefits are short lived while silicone is 100% water proof and therefore lasts a great deal longer.

Of course veg oil is alway readily available while silicone and perhaps olive oil is not.

What I don't agree with though is stopping the advice that olive oil is ok when infact it is. Why cannot facts be clearly stated and leave it to the individual with sense to understand the facts without having his intelligence insulted.

After all, once some known incorrect advice is given, why pay any respect to the rest?

Hi, had the same problem but in my case the door blade had twisted, had to loosen the 4 screws on the cassette to get it to open and close.