Hi, my name is Dee. My family and I have had a Bailey Pageant Bretagne for just a year (caravan is now 2 yrs old) and love camping. On July 26th we had an accident on the way back from Devon where the wheel of the caravan fell off causing extensive damage. No-one was hurt thankfully. We were not insured which we know was a stupid thing not to do. We feel the fault of the wheel coming off is due to the wheels not be torqued correctly as all 5 bolts came out. 3 retrieved at the scene. The dealers are saying that this happened because someone has tampered with the wheels as they are alloys. We have a 120ft drive, a hitch lock and the wheel in question had a wheel clamp on. The caravan has been on local sites but this wheel is on the awning side which is always up as we use bedroom extensions. When we looked at the bolts you could see they had been running in the middle. Does anyone know if a caravan could be towed gently approx 140 miles in total on bolts hand tightened. We are wanting to take the dealer to court. Many thanks.
Help - please someone help - wheel's off
- Thread starter Barry298
- Start date
I forgot to say - the caravan went in for its first service on March 16th and had a new hub bearing and brakes etc looked at. We knew nothing about re-torqueing the nuts every 50 miles or so. Dealer never told us anything. Dee
Hello Barry, I am sorry to read of your incident.
There has been a similar thread on this forum, and the conclusion is that a properly torqued set of wheel nuts/studs should not come loose by themselves after tightening.
Unfortunately, such cases are reliant on your word against the dealers, but the longer the time difference between the dealers intervention and the incident the greater the chance that other interventions may have occurred to affect the nuts tightness.
This uncertainty diminishes your case against the dealer.
I have to add that the road regulations do make it the responsibility of the driver to check that their vehicle (and trailer) are in a safe and roadworthy condition for each trip, however there have been some successful cases where a customer has been able to establish that a garage has failed to exercise their duty of care to ensure that a car that has been in their care for a service or repairs was not competently completed and prepared for the road.
If you intend to pursue this matter, you must seek professional legal advice.
There has been a similar thread on this forum, and the conclusion is that a properly torqued set of wheel nuts/studs should not come loose by themselves after tightening.
Unfortunately, such cases are reliant on your word against the dealers, but the longer the time difference between the dealers intervention and the incident the greater the chance that other interventions may have occurred to affect the nuts tightness.
This uncertainty diminishes your case against the dealer.
I have to add that the road regulations do make it the responsibility of the driver to check that their vehicle (and trailer) are in a safe and roadworthy condition for each trip, however there have been some successful cases where a customer has been able to establish that a garage has failed to exercise their duty of care to ensure that a car that has been in their care for a service or repairs was not competently completed and prepared for the road.
If you intend to pursue this matter, you must seek professional legal advice.
Thank you John L. We are seeking legal representation and realise that this is a very grey area. The service form has not been signed so we hope this will go in our favour. Dee
Hi Barry sorry to hear about your trouble. You know when you got your service sheet back after the caravan was service did it say if the wheel were torqued to the correct settings and also did they put down in writing that they did that. Also did they advise you to check your wheels after 15 minutes in the journey. The reason i am asking this i just had my caravan service and for the first time this information was on the service sheet. By the way i live in north Notts
Hi Barry sorry to hear about your trouble. You know when you got your service sheet back after the caravan was service did it say if the wheel were torqued to the correct settings and also did they put down in writing that they did that. Also did they advise you to check your wheels after 15 minutes in the journey. The reason i am asking this i just had my caravan service and for the first time this information was on the service sheet. By the way i live in north Notts
Hi Barry sorry to hear about your trouble. You know when you got your service sheet back after the caravan was service did it say if the wheel were torqued to the correct settings and also did they put down in writing that they did that. Also did they advise you to check your wheels after 15 minutes in the journey. The reason i am asking this i just had my caravan service and for the first time this information was on the service sheet. By the way i live in north Notts
Hi Dee
Very sorry to hear your sad story.
Can you tell us which wheel fell off?
Did anyone check the tightness of the remaining wheel immediately after the accident?
Maybe Parksy can steer you to the previous threads which did this issue to death. Hopefully there may be something in there to help.
Hopefully once this businees is resolved you can get on with caravanning and enjoy your travels. Insured??
Cheers
Dustydog
Very sorry to hear your sad story.
Can you tell us which wheel fell off?
Did anyone check the tightness of the remaining wheel immediately after the accident?
Maybe Parksy can steer you to the previous threads which did this issue to death. Hopefully there may be something in there to help.
Hopefully once this businees is resolved you can get on with caravanning and enjoy your travels. Insured??
Cheers
Dustydog
Parksy
Moderator
Hi DD
Dee and myself have discussed this in the 'New Members' section earlier where I gave the link to the previous topic and advised her to ask the opinion of the 'old timers' on 'General'.
Dee and myself have discussed this in the 'New Members' section earlier where I gave the link to the previous topic and advised her to ask the opinion of the 'old timers' on 'General'.
Checking the tightness of the undamaged wheel may, or may not give any useful information. Too many unknowns.
Also although wheels should be checked regularly, I feel that every 50 miles is possibly a bit OTT. However, I do admit that alloys need to be checked more often than steel wheels as they have higher torques and seem to be more prone to the problem.
Again, asking how long wheels will stay attached with slack bolts is an open ended question. Too many variables.
Although Dealers can make errors, they usually do try to take proper care. In my case the Dealer actually went round the nuts with a torque wrench in front of me, before I left. I doubt if you could make any legal case succeed as the final reponsibility to check these things lies with the customer. Also this happened after you had been away, not returning from a dealer's premises. As you also mention not having insurance was very silly, and I do hope the repair costs were not too extreme.
Also although wheels should be checked regularly, I feel that every 50 miles is possibly a bit OTT. However, I do admit that alloys need to be checked more often than steel wheels as they have higher torques and seem to be more prone to the problem.
Again, asking how long wheels will stay attached with slack bolts is an open ended question. Too many variables.
Although Dealers can make errors, they usually do try to take proper care. In my case the Dealer actually went round the nuts with a torque wrench in front of me, before I left. I doubt if you could make any legal case succeed as the final reponsibility to check these things lies with the customer. Also this happened after you had been away, not returning from a dealer's premises. As you also mention not having insurance was very silly, and I do hope the repair costs were not too extreme.
We had the same thing exactly 12 months to the day ago but with amazingly little damage thanks to the Powrtouch mover acting as a skid.The wheel was never seen again
I know that I checked the wheel bolts the night before(twice) as I always do with a torque wrench but the nearside wheel came off after 12 miles
I suspect that following a visit that day from a lady selling doilies that the wheel was tampered with in an effort to remove the Alko wheel clamp
I now check the morning of departure
The insurance co showed no surprise and the only reaction was that its always the nearside wheel and that left hand threaded bolts on the NS could avoid them having to pay out so often!!
I know that I checked the wheel bolts the night before(twice) as I always do with a torque wrench but the nearside wheel came off after 12 miles
I suspect that following a visit that day from a lady selling doilies that the wheel was tampered with in an effort to remove the Alko wheel clamp
I now check the morning of departure
The insurance co showed no surprise and the only reaction was that its always the nearside wheel and that left hand threaded bolts on the NS could avoid them having to pay out so often!!
Hi Dee
Realy sorry to hear of your mishap.
You could be in for a long fight and an expensive solicitor to get a result out of this one. One thing your solicitor should be asking for is a copy of the service record that the dealer has for his workshop and a copy of the job sheet. Also a copy of the calibration certificate for the torque wrench they used to check the wheel bolts. Then he could ask to see the training record for the engineer who carried out the work.
By that time, I expect the dealership will then back down and repair your van free of charge. You see, only a realy well organized dealer will have this sort of paper trail to varify his competence. But this type of documentation is common place in motor manufacturing and was brought about by "out of hand" rejection of parts just to reduce end of month stocks and as a by product it then developed a strategic profile plan for the business's.
Before I heard of the amount of alloy wheels comming off on the forum, I used to tighten my wheels once and then check after about 30 miles and that was it. But now I think I'll be checking before each journey.
Mind you, I had a new tyre fitted to my car (which has alloys) on Thursday and to my astonishment the tyre fitter torqued up the bolts in anti clockwise sequence instead of diagonally as is the norm. He looked at me as if I was stupid when I pointed this out and then had a real muttering session when I insisted that he slacked off the bolts and did it properly. I'm a stickler for detail having worked as a process technician/health & safety rep/toolmaker and experimental engineer, and I always supervise anyone fitting my wheels and will double check that mechanical work has been completed to my satisfaction.
I hope the info is usefull and that you can get a result out of your dealership as my gut tells me that they may of not torqued up the bolts or used a dodgy torque wrench or the fitter did what I witnessed on thursday, torqued up the bolts out of sequence. All of which can envoke your incident.
Regards.
Steve L.
Realy sorry to hear of your mishap.
You could be in for a long fight and an expensive solicitor to get a result out of this one. One thing your solicitor should be asking for is a copy of the service record that the dealer has for his workshop and a copy of the job sheet. Also a copy of the calibration certificate for the torque wrench they used to check the wheel bolts. Then he could ask to see the training record for the engineer who carried out the work.
By that time, I expect the dealership will then back down and repair your van free of charge. You see, only a realy well organized dealer will have this sort of paper trail to varify his competence. But this type of documentation is common place in motor manufacturing and was brought about by "out of hand" rejection of parts just to reduce end of month stocks and as a by product it then developed a strategic profile plan for the business's.
Before I heard of the amount of alloy wheels comming off on the forum, I used to tighten my wheels once and then check after about 30 miles and that was it. But now I think I'll be checking before each journey.
Mind you, I had a new tyre fitted to my car (which has alloys) on Thursday and to my astonishment the tyre fitter torqued up the bolts in anti clockwise sequence instead of diagonally as is the norm. He looked at me as if I was stupid when I pointed this out and then had a real muttering session when I insisted that he slacked off the bolts and did it properly. I'm a stickler for detail having worked as a process technician/health & safety rep/toolmaker and experimental engineer, and I always supervise anyone fitting my wheels and will double check that mechanical work has been completed to my satisfaction.
I hope the info is usefull and that you can get a result out of your dealership as my gut tells me that they may of not torqued up the bolts or used a dodgy torque wrench or the fitter did what I witnessed on thursday, torqued up the bolts out of sequence. All of which can envoke your incident.
Regards.
Steve L.
I suspect the dealer would point out that he serviced the van on March 16th, the accident happened on July 26th, so a considerable time elapsed between the van leaving the dealer and the accident. It is possible that no mileage took place, but that is only Barry's word against the dealer. I would think the dealer would have a good case of denying responsibility.
I think we should all learn from this and check more often, I for one have marked all my bolts at the 12 oclock position with a marker pen, so it should be obvious if a bolt slackens off.
My father 40 years ago took his rear wheel off his car and when called in for lunch forgot to tighten it. After lunch he rounded up 4 other members of the local cricket club for an afternoon match, you guessed it, the wheel came off and two passengers in the rear were knocked unconscious. They lost the match as well!!
My father 40 years ago took his rear wheel off his car and when called in for lunch forgot to tighten it. After lunch he rounded up 4 other members of the local cricket club for an afternoon match, you guessed it, the wheel came off and two passengers in the rear were knocked unconscious. They lost the match as well!!
Well I have spent years playing with cars and having had Tyrons fitted to our new van I decided to have the wheels balanced.
On refitting I torqued up the bolts and set off on holiday.
We did an overnight stop after 130 miles and before departing in the morning I re-checked the torque.
On our way back home I thought I had a flat on the van and stopped only to find the wheel loose and 2 bolts missing.
As far as we are concerned the van was never left in a positioned where the wheel could have been tampered with.
So why?
Does the heat build up compress the 'soft' alloy of the wheel and when it cools the bolt is then slightly loose?
All I know is that having served my apprenticeship in Mechanical Engineering I do know how to tighten a bolt.
In the meantime I am checking the bolts everytime I stop until I get P****d of doing it and convince myself that there is no other technical problem.
What I cannot understand is how a wheel can come off completly unless the cars occupants are all totally deaf!!
Jim
On refitting I torqued up the bolts and set off on holiday.
We did an overnight stop after 130 miles and before departing in the morning I re-checked the torque.
On our way back home I thought I had a flat on the van and stopped only to find the wheel loose and 2 bolts missing.
As far as we are concerned the van was never left in a positioned where the wheel could have been tampered with.
So why?
Does the heat build up compress the 'soft' alloy of the wheel and when it cools the bolt is then slightly loose?
All I know is that having served my apprenticeship in Mechanical Engineering I do know how to tighten a bolt.
In the meantime I am checking the bolts everytime I stop until I get P****d of doing it and convince myself that there is no other technical problem.
What I cannot understand is how a wheel can come off completly unless the cars occupants are all totally deaf!!
Jim
Hi Dustydog, thank you for your posting. The wheel was the nearside one - we told the dealer that we were going to take this further and they have thrown the damaged bolts away which we were going to use as part evidence. We still intend to pursue this. Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you - don't go on the computer much ! Dee
After we lost a wheel many years ago we now always check wheel nuts before each journey.Setting off last week for York as usual OH checked torque on wheels. Two of the nuts on the offside wheel had come loose.Thank goodness we now always check them before we set off.
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