**Help ** required before decision to add more weight

[Jcloughie]

I was once interested in a second hand Bessacar. I considered buying it and the salesman took my details including the car. As we were outside the 85% he said it was company policy not to sell it.

Did not even suggest changing the car or asking if we intended to tow with that car.

Never came across that either before or since.

John

 

[trevormonty]

85% is guideline not a rule. You need to make sure MTPLM is within tow vehicles specfication and it isn't exceeded. If there is an accident these will be things insurance company and police look at. Also combined mass is within your drivers license rating.

You said MTPLM has been uprated to 2000kg but plate shows 18xxkg. Make sure you have paperwork to back 2000kg rating just in case there is an accident, without paper work authorities will be working off what is on plate.

Not bad idea to get van weight professional with your expected payload and before AC is added. That way you have something concrete to work from not guessing what MIRO is. NB a full hotwater tank is about 10kg, can be drained if you are close to limit.

 

[Lutz]

You said MTPLM has been uprated to 2000kg but plate shows 18xxkg. Make sure you have paperwork to back 2000kg rating just in case there is an accident, without paper work authorities will be working off what is on plate.

The so-called "plate " shown on the photograph that the OP posted is not the statutory plate. It is merely a label by the door for information only and does not comply with the requirements for an official weight plate. There will be a statutory plate elsewhere on the caravan, usually in the front locker, that shows 2000kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...You need to make sure MTPLM is within tow vehicles specfication and it isn't exceeded. If there is an accident these will be things insurance company and police look at. Also combined mass is within your drivers license rating.

This is not true. Your not comparing apples with apples.

The MTPLM of a trailer is a weight limit not a measured weight. It represents the maximum whole weight limit for the trailer (summation of all points of support). It is not the same thing as the trailers towed weight which is only the measured load on its road wheels.

That is an important difference becasue the the towed weight limit for the tow vehicle only looks at the load on the trailers axle, and does not include any of the vertical load supported by the tow vehicle hitch.

As far as the legality of towing, in theory you can to a trailer that has any MTPLM, provided when it's loaded measured weight in combination with the tow vehicles measured weights does not exceed the tow vehicle legal limits

In simplistic terms, if drivers ensure trailers are not overloaded and its MTPLM is less than the tow vehicles towed weight limit, the outfit should in terms or weight limits should be legal, but your possibly not maximising your load capacity.

 

[trevormonty]

You are correct in that its legal to tow a caravan that weighs less than vehicles max towing limit. In crash where caravan can't be weighed due to damage eg totalled, good luck explaining that to insurance company when MTPLM is greater than vehicles tow rating.

Think I understand first bit. Assume caravan weight of 1100kg measured 500kg on each wheel + 100kg on hitch =1100kg. When towing there is 1000kg on caravan wheels which is counted as cars tow mass.
From handling point of view still have the enertia of 1100kg caravan pushing car when slowing down or cornering.

 

[Lutz]

Not sure I understand your point in first part. MTPLM is total mass when place on wheel and hitch scales. Eg 500kg on each wheel + 100kg on hitch =1100kg. When towing don't see how 100kg resting on vehicles towball changes that. If caravan isn't level that towball weight will be higher or lower depending on angle, with caravan wheels carrying difference.

You are correct inasmuch as the total weight of the caravan is always its axle load plus the towball weight, but the towball weight is not being towed by the car. It is being carried, not towed and counts towards the total weight of the car. The towed loat can’t include the towball weight or else one would be counting it twice, once as part of the car’s weight and again as the towed weight.
Don’t confuse towed weight with overall weight of the trailer (caravan). The two are not the same.

 

[ProfJohnL]

You are correct in that its legal to tow a caravan that weighs less than vehicles max towing limit. In crash where caravan can't be weighed due to damage eg totalled, good luck explaining that to insurance company when MTPLM is greater than vehicles tow rating.

Think I understand first bit. Assume caravan weight of 1100kg measured 500kg on each wheel + 100kg on hitch =1100kg. When towing there is 1000kg on caravan wheels which is counted as cars tow mass.
From handling point of view still have the enertia of 1100kg caravan pushing car when slowing down or cornering.

The burden of proof will vary depending on who is trying to prove what.

For the Police and Vosa in the UK they have to abide by the law and the available evidence. Having a trailer with an MTPLM above the tow vehicles Braked Towing Weight Limit is not evidence of an offence. They would have to show the weight or trailer and its content exceeded the tow vehicles weight limits.

Insurers are somewhat different. In terms of the tow vehicle the insurer has to accept the limits defined in the vehicles type approval documentation, and cannot limit their liability under the road traffic regulations. Ultimately if an insurer was unhappy to fully cover a driver for the full capabilities of the tow vehicle in its standard form, and that would include third party cover for the towed trailer, they would either push up the premium or refuse to insure it in the first place.

In the UK it is not obligatory to have loss or damage insurance on trailers, so the insurers can basically write their own rules and define their limits and liabilities accordingly.

As for the weight distribution you have grasped that element, but the nose load is always part of the tow vehicles load and thus it has already been accounted for in the handling dynamics.