Help with weights and my license

[TheRabble]

Hello

I hope someone can help!

I passed my driving test in October 1997 so just missing out on a B+E license.

I have a 2004 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 dci. It has kerb weight of 1965kg. I am looking to buy a 1998 Abbey County Somerset which has a MTPLM of 1170kg.

With the 85% rule my caravan-to-be is fine, however I'm concerned I may not be able to tow it on my license.

Can anyone advise? Any advice would be gratefully received!

Ben

 

[Lutz]

I think the max. permissible gross train weight is over 3500kg for all Grand Espace variants, so you will definitely need a category B+E licence.

 

[smiley]

Hi Rabble

Forget the 85% it has nothing to do with it.

If you have category B on your licence you can tow a van.

If your car is 1965 unladed weight, you cannot exceed this weight when towing your van but you need to know what your Max authorised ( MAM) weight is.

You are within the limits of your van mam to car'S unladed weight.

But what is the MAM

1965 + 1170 = 3.135 tonnes as you donnot exceed the 3.5 tonne your ok.

What you cannot do is tow a van fully la

 

[smiley]

Stupid machine I'll do it agian

Hi Rabble

Forget the 85% it has nothing to do with it.

If you have category B on your licence you can tow a van upto 3.5 tonnes. (3.499)tonnes

If your car is 1965 unladed weight, you cannot exceed this weight when towing your van at its max authirised weight MAM

You are within the limits of your van MAM to car's unladed weight.

But what is the MAM of your car?

If the maximum authorised weight of you car it is more than 2.329 tonnes say (2.330 + 1170 = 3500) then you cannot tow the van. Your car must be under 2330 tonnes.

Hope this helps you.

If you are above this weight 3.500 then you would need category B+E.

Your license has nothing to do with gross train weights which are different.

Just find your maximum authorised weight than add this to your van.

 

[smiley]

copied this from DVLA for you. Hope it works out for you. good luck

Motoring Towing trailers or caravans with vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes In this article reference is made to the maximum authorised mass (MAM) of vehicles and trailers. This should be taken to mean the permissible maximum weight, also known as the gross vehicle weight.

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats

Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

For example:

a vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is because the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and also the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Whereas

the same vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes when coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.5 tonnes would fall within category B+E. This is because although the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is within the 3.5 tonnes MAM limit, the MAM of the trailer is more than the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle

Vehicle manufacturers normally recommend a maximum weight of trailer appropriate to their vehicle. Details can usually be found in the vehicle's handbook or obtained from car dealerships. The size of the trailer recommended for an average family car with an unladen weight of around 1 tonne would be well within the new category B threshold.

Towing caravans

As for towing caravans, existing general guidance recommends that the laden weight of the caravan does not exceed 85% of the unladen weight of the car. In the majority of cases, caravans and small trailers towed by cars should be within the new category B threshold.

An exemption from the driver licensing trailer limit allows a category B licence holder to tow a broken down vehicle from a position where it would otherwise cause danger or obstruction to other road users.

By passing a category B test national categories F (tractor), K (pedestrian controlled vehicle) and P (moped) continue to be added automatically.

Category B+E: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM towing trailers over 750kgs MAM

Category B+E allows vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM to be combined with trailers in excess of 750kgs MAM. In order to gain this entitlement new category B licence holders have to pass a further practical test for category B+E. There is no category B+E theory test. For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but smileys advice is wrong.

I quote from the The National Trailer & Towing Association

web site:-

"Driving Licences

Summary:-

You must hold a full driving licence to tow anything.

With effect from 1 January 1997 the second EC Directive on Driving Licences (91/439/EEC) came into effect, affecting new drivers passing their test after that date and HGV drivers who obtained their licence after 31 December 1991.

The net result is that new drivers will only be allowed to drive and tow the following combinations:

Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).

Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. > 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. To be able to tow combinations outside this ruling requires the passing of an additional test."

The key phrase here is "the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes"

This is very significant, as it does not say you can tow a combination provide it does not exceed 3.5T but it stipulates that the sum of both the tow vehicles and caravans Maximum Authorised Mass does not exceed 3.5T even if you only partially load the vehicles to stay below 3500Kg

Your Renault will have a data plate that will tell you what the cars MAM. I have an 2000 2.2Dt Grand Espace that (from memory) has an MAM of about 2600Kg, I guess that yours will be similar Add that to the MAM of your caravan (which will be slightly more than the 1170Kg MTPLM) and you get a combined MAM figure of about 3770Kg

If your figures are like mine, then as a Cat B licence holder you cannot tow your proposed caravan.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Between reading Smileys first post and researchingad an posting my reply , Smiley has found and posted the relevant sections from the DVLA.

I draw your attentin to the last lines of the second paragrapgh

"or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

Whilst written slightly differently to the version the NTTA use, the important word is combined, and I refer you to my main reply above.

Don't forget this is about what your licence permits you to do , not the technical ability of your car.

 

[Lutz]

Perhaps to make it short and simple, the crux is in the statement "..... and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM." This refers to the permissible gross train weight having to be less than 3500kg.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Perhaps to make it short and simple, the crux is in the statement "..... and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM." This refers to the permissible gross train weight having to be less than 3500kg.

Hi Lutz,

Yes you have found a simpler way of expressing it, and most EU cars now stamp the figure on their data plates.

 

[marlot]

I think this is the easiest explanation for people:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/ltt.pdf

 

[smiley]

in the statement "..... and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM." This refers to the permissible gross train weight having to be less than 3500kg.

The MAM does not refer to GTW. It refers to what you can legally tow on a full driving license if you only have a category B.

Brill driagram and info Timothy. Spot on.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree with smiley, the diagram is brilliant.

well done Ifor Williams, and Timothy for spotting it.

 

[Dave_374458187]

Tis my first post here, only signed up today.

I for one am so glad to that diagram. Having passed my test in 2004 and only just deciding to buy a caravan, having thought about it for about 2 years.

I was on the verge of giving up owing to the towing regs. Talk about how to take something simple and totally confuse the issue.

Dave

 

[602]

Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).

Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. > 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

Hi,

Wouldn't be better if the two paragraphs above changed places? How many holders of a B licence think that they are restricted to 750kg?

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