Help!

[Ihavenoclueaboutcaravans]

As my username indicates I am new to the caravaning world and relatively clueless!
We have decided to take the plunge and buy our first one. We are a family of four with two girls, 7&10.
I have found an immaculate 2017 Bailey Modena which we are thinking of getting however I am worried it will be too small.
The other option I have seen around the same price point is a Bailey Cadiz 2015 and a Lunar Quasar 2017 - also immaculate.
I am fully aware it comes down to personal choice in terms of layout but I like the look of them all.
My question is which is likely to be the best buy? Which is most reliable? Higher spec ? And am I better to go for a smaller newer van or older bigger van in terms of value for money?

Thank you so much!

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Welcome.
Which is best value for your money only you can decide.
Go back as your family and have another look at all the caravans you are thinking of.
Get everyone inside and imagine living in it for a couple of weeks or more.
How much space do you need?
How will it work at mealtime?
How does it work for you when set-up for sleeping?
Will you have an awning?

Good luck deciding 😎

 

[Andy Norfolk]

We have only been caravanning 18 months having switched from a motorhome. As there are 4 of you, I would consider how much room you will have in the evening when the weather may prevent you being outside. You could add an awning for extra room although I think they are a pain to put up. I've had many happy hours on sites watching people struggle putting them up. Good luck with your choice.

 

[borderbilly]

I have a Lunar Venus 570/4 2016 and to date has been my best van yet. Look on here for all the horror stories with Bailey, Swift etc and lots are new vans. Build quality on Lunar are far superior. Only down side is Lunar are no longer in production. Didn't put me off, you pay your money you take your chance. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

 

[Bluetonic]

just my two penneth after caravanning for 18 years with kids. They are now 21 and 18 and still come away with us from time to time
Beware of bunk beds, kids grow up, bunk beds do not get bigger, this may not be an issue if you plan on changing every few years but if you plan on keeping it long term can be an issue. Our first family caravan had bunks which was OK until second daughter hit the early teens, then it became very uncomfortable and took the fun out of caravanning until we swapped to a T/A
with beds each side for the kids and an end bathroom, the adults are going to have to sneak through to the bathroom, but it does free up the front of the 'van so you can still watch TV etc when they have gone to bed.
With the fixed bed at the side the kids will need to go past you to the loo if they need it at night, and you have to go to bed when they do.
Also, with a single axle 'van the space in the front is more limited with a fixed bed, so the kids may fit either side for a few years but at some point they will have to share the double bed at the front.
The Unicorn is a higher spec than the Pegasus, but that comes at a price and reduced user payload. We have a Bailey Pegasus GT65 and are more than happy with the specification, plus with 4 adults now we have plenty of payload for the billions of shoes 3 women need to pack for two nights
I can't comment on the Lunar other than I have always liked the look of them but as @borderbilly says, Lunar are no more so you pay your money and take your choice.
It's definitely worth taking the family for a day out at some dealerships to try out the different layouts and spend a good amount of time trying to imagine how you will use everything.
All caravans and manufacturers have their faults and some bad ones do get built, however you only usually get to hear about the bad ones online, our 2015 Pegasus GT65 has had a few minor issues in its 10 years, such as needing new pump, new kitchen tap, a reading light ................. but thankfully nothing major
You will also need to check that your car is OK to tow a caravan of the weight you are looking at.

I do know that we have made some amazing memories as a family caravanning and so happy that we took the plunge. Our kids are 4th generation caravanners! )

And that's more like £2 than 2p 😂

 

[Ihavenoclueaboutcaravans]

Thank you so much to everyone taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. In terms of age , would anyone be put off buying a 2015 van or does it really come down to how well it has been maintained? I’m leaning towards the bigger Bailey as the chap selling the Lunar has been hopeless with his comms and I am a little nervous about the fact the company no longer exists! Thanks ☺️

 

[borderbilly]

Thank you so much to everyone taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. In terms of age , would anyone be put off buying a 2015 van or does it really come down to how well it has been maintained? I’m leaning towards the bigger Bailey as the chap selling the Lunar has been hopeless with his comms and I am a little nervous about the fact the company no longer exists! Thanks ☺️

I wouldnt be put off as long as it has been regularly serviced and maintained.

 

[Dustydog]

Spend a few pounds and get a AWS engineer to give your prospective purchase the once over.
Make sure the seller has good legal title to the caravan, ie no outstanding finance.

 

[Mr Plodd]

Spend a few pounds and get a AWS engineer to give your prospective purchase the once over.
Make sure the seller has good legal title to the caravan, ie no outstanding finance.

Excellent advice, be sure to get a comprehensive damp report done at the same time.
If any seller is reluctant to allow you to do tgat there will be a reason, so if that's the case walk away.
If you buy from a dealer you will pay a bit more, but you will get some legal protection IF a fault manifests itself.

 

[Buckman]

If you buy from a dealer you will pay a bit more, but you will get some legal protection IF a fault manifests itself.

Good advice. If you use a CC for the deposit payment and then use HP you get maximum legal protection. Then of course you have CRA 2015 to complete the legal protection.

I would always advise a person buying a caravan for the first time to pay the extra and use a dealer as it can save a lot of heartache as we have recently seen on this forum.

 

[Beachball]

I never had a Lunar but a neighbour daughter has owned there"s from new it now 15 years old but i have had a Swift ,Bailey and Elddis and our last caravan was a Abbey .but for a family of four i would go for bigger bailey but take someone like a caravan engineer he would check it over and you could check the history has it been stamped up including a damp check if it still a match made in heaven go for it .

 

[Devonisheaven]

We have only been caravanning 18 months having switched from a motorhome. As there are 4 of you, I would consider how much room you will have in the evening when the weather may prevent you being outside. You could add an awning for extra room although I think they are a pain to put up. I've had many happy hours on sites watching people struggle putting them up. Good luck with your choice.

Never had an issue putting up a modern awning! 🤷

 

[otherclive]

Never had an issue putting up a modern awning! 🤷

Plus 1 for erecting an awning. Once you have done its couple of times it becomes straight forward, , especially if you colour code the poles with coloured tape. Even easier with air awnings.

 

[Dustydog]

Air awnings are notoriously heavy for pulling through the awning rail.
Save up and invest in a carbon fibre X pole Isabella

 

[ProfJohnL]

You haven't told us anything about the vehicle you intend to tow with. This is important as you need to ensure the vehicle is both mechanically and legally able to tow the caravans you are considering. You might be surprised to know that certain quite popular vehicles and not homologised tow.

FInd your data plate on your car, which should have four weight/load limits stamped on it for example:-


The sequence of stationary Mass limits is a statutory format
2505 Kg is the Gross Vehicle Mass
4200 Kg is the Gross Train Mass
1250 Kg Front axle Mass limit
1300 Kg Rear axle Mass limit

They are all absolute limits with no excess tolerance so you must not exceed any of them when on a public road.

The If you subtract the GVM from the GTM you calculate the maximum towed load the vehicle can tow when the vehicle is its self fully loaded. Many car manufacturers simply deine that as the heaviest trailer the car should tow, Some manufacturer allow a greater trailer weight when the car is not fully loaded

Regardless of the the manufactures choice of a mximum towed weight limit. The driver must ensure the combined mass of the car nd any towed trailer must not exceed the stated Gross Train Mass on the data plate.

It is widely accepted that caravans represent a difficult trailer from the cars perspective. They are big and thus very susceptible to the effects of wind, and bow waves created by other vehicle as you pass. These can readily upset the stability of your outfit. For that reason it is always good practice to keep the weight of any trailer as small as is practical.

The UK caravan industry advise that novice caravanners should aim to have the caravans stated maximum weight of their caravan to be no more than 85% of the kerbweight of the tow vehicle and only increasing towards 100% as you gain experience. I stress this is only advice and not backed by any road regulations. However some caravan insurers do stipulate similar maximum weight ratios, check your policy.

 

[Ihavenoclueaboutcaravans]

You haven't told us anything about the vehicle you intend to tow with. This is important as you need to ensure the vehicle is both mechanically and legally able to tow the caravans you are considering. You might be surprised to know that certain quite popular vehicles and not homologised tow.

FInd your data plate on your car, which should have four weight/load limits stamped on it for example:-
View attachment 7544

The sequence of stationary Mass limits is a statutory format
2505 Kg is the Gross Vehicle Mass
4200 Kg is the Gross Train Mass
1250 Kg Front axle Mass limit
1300 Kg Rear axle Mass limit

They are all absolute limits with no excess tolerance so you must not exceed any of them when on a public road.

The If you subtract the GVM from the GTM you calculate the maximum towed load the vehicle can tow when the vehicle is its self fully loaded. Many car manufacturers simply deine that as the heaviest trailer the car should tow, Some manufacturer allow a greater trailer weight when the car is not fully loaded

Regardless of the the manufactures choice of a mximum towed weight limit. The driver must ensure the combined mass of the car nd any towed trailer must not exceed the stated Gross Train Mass on the data plate.

It is widely accepted that caravans represent a difficult trailer from the cars perspective. They are big and thus very susceptible to the effects of wind, and bow waves created by other vehicle as you pass. These can readily upset the stability of your outfit. For that reason it is always good practice to keep the weight of any trailer as small as is practical.

The UK caravan industry advise that novice caravanners should aim to have the caravans stated maximum weight of their caravan to be no more than 85% of the kerbweight of the tow vehicle and only increasing towards 100% as you gain experience. I stress this is only advice and not backed by any road regulations. However some caravan insurers do stipulate similar maximum weight ratios, check your policy.

Thanks. It’s a ford Ranger

 

[Ihavenoclueaboutcaravans]

Thanks! I’ve found another one which is almost too good to be true and I thought the chap on the phone was a bit sketchy when asked re service history. So I would definitely feel happier to get an independent review before buying this one. I’ll look into getting this done.
Does anyone have any experience of haggling with dealers - are they often receptive to this?

 

[borderbilly]

Thanks. It’s a ford Ranger

Too big for pulling a van, too much grunt 😁

 

[Buckman]

Thanks! I’ve found another one which is almost too good to be true and I thought the chap on the phone was a bit sketchy when asked re service history. So I would definitely feel happier to get an independent review before buying this one. I’ll look into getting this done.
Does anyone have any experience of haggling with dealers - are they often receptive to this?

At the moment yes because end of season and caravans are not moving off the showroom floor.

 

[Dustydog]

At the moment yes because end of season and caravans are not moving off the showroom floor.

Fully agree and ask for plenty of extras too! Dealers don’t want used stock lying around until next spring depreciating in value.

 

[GaryB]

We found that as kids get older they (and you!) might want more of "your own space" so consider a caravan with two defined/separate areas. Our best one was a 2018 Sprite Quattro EB, lightweight twin axle that had lots of space with two areas separated by the centre bathroom. I don't know if the models you're considering have this layout, but personally we found it worked best as a family layout with an older child. I agree with previous comments about bunk beds, the kids will outgrow them very quickly, we made that (expensive) mistake when our daughter was younger.

Dealers seem to be struggling to sell as many caravans as previous years so look round and try and haggle, personally if spending a lot of money I'd go to a dealer as you will likely get a warranty. Buying privately might secure more accessories for the price, but I feel a bit more comfortable handing decent sums of money over to dealer than a private individual.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks! I’ve found another one which is almost too good to be true and I thought the chap on the phone was a bit sketchy when asked re service history. So I would definitely feel happier to get an independent review before buying this one. I’ll look into getting this done.
Does anyone have any experience of haggling with dealers - are they often receptive to this?

If a seller is sketchy about the service history, it raises red flags. If he doesn't know the service history how can he know the condition of the caravan to be able to make it sound so good?

I wouldn't waste the cost of an independent survey. Id walk away.

There's no way you can describe all the caravan dealers as being good or bad. As with any other type of employment there will be some good and some not so good, They are there to make money and few may try less than squeaky clean tactics to relieve you of yours. But there are also others who do recognise that keeping the customer satisfied is ok.

From the customer's point of view, especial one whose not familiar with caravans
there can be a good reason to use a dealer, and that is the Consumer Rights Act, which can be a real friend if you start to have problems with a caravan. Every retail sale in the UK (Including second hand items) automatically gets protection under the CRA. Unfortunately private sales do not have the same level of protection.

I can understand your itching to get a caravan, but your in danger of using your heart and not your head. By all means go and look at what is available, and if you find one you like, don't rush or be pushed into signing the contract. Stop and think,

If you have a friend or family member who caravans, ask them to come and look at it with you. They may well spot something you didn't realise was important. Check the details of the caravan matches the documentation, Are all the appliance handbooks present.

If you think you've found the one, arrange to have it checked over by an Approved Workshop Scheme engineer who should be able to do a pre purchase condition check for you . It can save you a lot of problems and money.

Any seller that refuses to allow an independent assessment should be treated as suspicious.

Do not agree to purchase until all your questions have been fully answered. Do check for any outstanding finance, becasue until the last payment has been made in full. Technically the keeper does not have the title to sell the caravan.

It's tough out there, there are too many scams and too many victims, don't become one of them.

Good luck

 

[Buckman]

The prof is correct except for one thing, don't walk away, RUN!

 

[Mandarin]

Heading back to your original question I would go for the larger van. We are just two and find the Cabrera a good size, and we can easily live for a period with four inside.

However we previosuly had a Compass Camino, same size, but the seats were too short to comfortably seat four.

We also like the mid bathroom, which is effectively an en suite for those sleeping up front or at the back.

In the end its all a matter of personal choice, so I'd head over to a big dealer with all four of you and sit in a few vans for while and imagine living inside on a wet day.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I would very strongly recommend you get a caravan where the bathroom (I.e. toilet) is midships. If you get one with a rear bathroom anyone from the front bedroom has to pass through the rear bedroom to get to the toilet during the night.

Do you fancy sleeping in a corridor?

Other than that, as Mandarin has said, get the biggest you can legally tow, and an awning which gives you a huge amount of extra "living" space, which, with a family on a wet day is more than essential! . Having had both poled and air awnings my personal choice is air, yes they can be a bit heavy and unwieldy, but, if you work as a team, can be erected very quickly. We are both 70 and it takes us about 5 minutes from opening the bag to having our 390 awning fully inflated and up. Pegging out takes about another 10. Like most things once you have erected it a few times it gets a lot easier, practice makes perfect!

Probably best to find a decent SH awning first off to get a "feel" fior the size. Don't assume you need a full sized one, a larger "porch" awning still gives a lot of space. We can get 2 recliners, 2 directions chairs, caravan table, camp kitchen, portable fridge and a stock of "really useful" boxes in our 390 and we still have loads of room, so certainly big enough for a family of four!

Good luck, and be ruled by your head NOT your heart.