Hook-up cables - what colour do you use?

[philip_stevens]

I ask this question, as there is a colour code standard for cables and plugs use.

I have seen various colour combinations of cable and plugs when I had a boat. Standards should have been the same for boats as it should be for caravans/campervans.

Red plugs are for 415/440 Volt,
Blue plugs and cable is for 230 Volt, and
Yellow plugs and cable is for 110 Volt.
Purple plugs are for 24 Vdc.

So, Orange cable?? Is it just for high visablilty or garden appliances?

From what I can find out, there is only Blue and Yellow Arctic cable - https://goo.gl/kd7aPL

As an electrician, I have to stay with convention/standard when working on electrical services.

I did read this on Caravantalk https://goo.gl/1d3mCQ

I would suggest, that blue is better for ultraviolet protection/non-degradation. This comes from the blue ultraviolet protection covers for the sails and awnings on boats.

As an addendum, what length of cable do you have and adaptors, and advice?

Thanks in advance for your patience in answering my questions.

 

[Craigyoung]

1 x 25m orange for mains electric and a spare 25m orange cable incase im short , both with the blue plugs on the end probably like most !

 

[otherclive]

25m 240 volt Orange cable with standard Blue plug when out touring. I think that the orange give better visibility on site so that people don't trip over it, and mowers don't shred it. White 25m cable with blue plug at home. Not so sure about the UV protection for the blue plugs though.

 

[JamesH]

I use a 25M blue cable in accordance with British Standards. I sometimes also carry an additional cable with a larger cross section conductor if I know the site and think I may need the extra length.
It seems that orange cable has become standard on caravan sites because it can be seen on green grass. Surely people can see a bright blue cable laying across green grass.
What would the situation be if someone was electrocuted by an orange cable when BS states it should be blue?

 

[Hutch]

2 x25 meter orange cables, both carried in the car, 1 phase change adaptor and a French plug to Blue plug.

 

[Dodger524]

I use a 25M blue cable in accordance with British Standards. I sometimes also carry an additional cable with a larger cross section conductor if I know the site and think I may need the extra length.
It seems that orange cable has become standard on caravan sites because it can be seen on green grass. Surely people can see a bright blue cable laying across green grass.
What would the situation be if someone was electrocuted by an orange cable when BS states it should be blue?

All caravan sites hook up sockets are protected by earth leakage trips that are not in the least bit fussed as to the colour of the cable that they are protecting.

 

[otherclive]

In their 2009 Technical Bulletin the Caravan Club explicitly state that the plugs and sockets must be blue to align with the legislative requirements denoting the supply voltage. However the cable colour should be Orange to give visibility on a campsite. The document runs to several pages and quotes the relevant BS, IEE and CEE standards applicable. Since there’s been no further update since 2009 I for one will stick to Orange cable with Blue connectors.

 

[Anseo]

Plugs = Blue 230v X2.
Sockets= Blue 230v X2
Cables = 1 x 25m Orange, 2.5mm core.
1 x 12m Blue Arctic cable, 2.5mm core.

2 of the Blue plugs are watertight, if I have to join two cables together then the joint connection (on the ground) will have watertight connectors either side.

I don't recall right now the make of watertight plugssockets that I have but they are of this type of design:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-straight-plug-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/2161f
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-connector-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/1449f

I also carry a range of adapters e.g.
https://www.towsure.com/3-way-caravan-camping-site-mains-connector
https://www.jacksonscamping.com/conversion-lead-domestic-13-amp-hook-up-adaptor/p3001

And some other home made adapters including multi-points etc.

When I first started putting all of the kit together I thought that I had overdone the spares and what-if scenarios, I now find that I have had a use for most of them at some time or other, a few have not seen any action (yet)

 

[Dodger524]

Plugs = Blue 230v X4.
Cables = 1 x 25m Orange, 2.5mm core.
1 x 12m Blue Arctic cable, 2.5mm core.

2 of the Blue plugs are watertight, if I have to join two cables together then the joint connection (on the ground) will have watertight connectors either side.

I don't recall right now the make of watertight plugssockets that I have but they are of this type of design:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-straight-plug-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/2161f
https://www.screwfix.com/p/abb-connector-16a-2p-e-250v-6h-ip67/1449f

I also carry a range of adapters e.g.
https://www.towsure.com/3-way-caravan-camping-site-mains-connector
https://www.jacksonscamping.com/conversion-lead-domestic-13-amp-hook-up-adaptor/p3001

And some other home made adapters including multi-points etc.

When I first started putting all of the kit together I thought that I had overdone the spares and what-if scenarios, I now find that I have had a use for most of them at some time or other, a few have not seen any action (yet)

The plugs and sockets are NOT waterproof they are only splash proof IP44 rated. If you are joining cable together they the connection needs additional protection.

 

[VicMallows]

The plugs and sockets are NOT waterproof they are only splash proof IP44 rated. If you are joining cable together they the connection needs additional protection.

The ones that ANSEO links to are rated IP67

 

[KeefySher]

Do you think there is a market for green cables with white plugs? :evil: :evil:

 

[Dodger524]

The plugs and sockets are NOT waterproof they are only splash proof IP44 rated. If you are joining cable together they the connection needs additional protection.

The ones that ANSEO links to are rated IP67

Nice to know but those generally available are not, hence the warning although if the safety system works as it should the worst that will happen is a tripped supply breaker.

 

[Woodentop]

1 Why does almost everyone keep referring to 'plugs?' They are plugs and sockets. Although I haven't used the IP67 connectors there could be an issue of compatibility as the IP44 type use the lid of the socket to hook over a plastic appendage on the plug to keep the two mated together.

2. There is reference to the supply tripping. In the UK the supply will be fed through a two-pole miniature circuit breaker (MCB) and a two-pole residual current device (RCD.) Try and find them on the continent especially in France - hens teeth comes to mind. What is more in France you will often see something that looks like an MCB but it has a fuse inside it, plus unlike an MCB which comes in (typically) 6A, 10A, and 16A, fuses in France come in all sorts of ratings - like 4A, 8A, 11A (eh?) and 18A. What is more when you have the option of a 6A, 10A or 16A supply it is usually achieved by having two MCB's or (more likely) fuseholders in parallel and they switch on whatever is needed to give the current rating for which you are paying!
You will also find a power box with six blue outlets and you are told that the supply is 6A, but each outlet is protected at 16A? This means that the supply capability is nominally 6x6A or 36A or so, but if there are no more than two people using the box they can both safely pull 16A!

Importantly if taking a Schuko two or three pin continental plug to use as an adapter to BS4343 blue connectors, make sure you get a 90 degree plug or you may have difficulty getting it inside a typical connection box.

Finally, take a mains testing plug to ensure the mains is of correct polarity. Even though the two short pins of a BS4343 are clearly marked L and N these letters seem to mean nothing to continental electricians and the supply can be either way round - indeed in a line of three Schuko sockets you will be lucky to get three wired the same way round, whatever way round that is.

 

[VicMallows]

Woodentop,
Apart from possibly frightening some people who are new to camping in France (or many other countries), what is the point you are making? Yes, electrical installations on campsites are not always up to the standards one would ideally like, but (apart from choosing not to use them) you have no option but to take them as you find them.

It is true that prior to the introduction of RCDs (which only date from the mid 1970s) serious electric shock was a real issue.....whether due to poor/faulty installation, or user error. However, for a very long time all caravan installations have been protected by an RCD which (if working correctly) nearly eliminates most risk of serious electric shock .

I personally have no concerns over the so-called 'reverse-polarity' issue, especially in modern caravans which have dual pole MCBs. I do have a slight concern over the possibility of a lack of a satisfactory earth via the EHU. In some circumstances a simple earth spike to the caravan metalwork may be desirable to ensure RCD operation in all circumstances.

 

[Anseo]

The plugs and sockets are NOT waterproof they are only splash proof IP44 rated. If you are joining cable together they the connection needs additional protection.

The ones that ANSEO links to are rated IP67

Nice to know but those generally available are not, hence the warning although if the safety system works as it should the worst that will happen is a tripped supply breaker.

Dodger, the IP67 plugs and sockets are very much generally available from many manufacturerssuppliers ,the downside being cost, typically twice as much or more; similar to the cost differential between indoor and outdoor 13amp plugs and sockets.

I don't often have a need for 230v Blue plugs or sockets, overall it is not a huge increase relative to my small purchase requirements, but from now on I will purchase the watertight type IP67 type for peace of mind (who said us Scots are tight :silly: ?)

Incidentally, and in response to an earlier comment, the watertight connectors I have do incorporate a 'lock' facility so that they secure and prevent easy release from the IP44 type plugs and sockets.

John

 

[Raywood]

I have always taken it that the bright orange cable is so it can be seen and is not a tripping hazard, but it also allows those cutting the grass on site to spot them and not chop them up which might happen otherwise.

 

[Woodentop]

Woodentop,
Apart from possibly frightening some people who are new to camping in France (or many other countries), what is the point you are making? Yes, electrical installations on campsites are not always up to the standards one would ideally like, but (apart from choosing not to use them) you have no option but to take them as you find them.

It is true that prior to the introduction of RCDs (which only date from the mid 1970s) serious electric shock was a real issue.....whether due to poor/faulty installation, or user error. However, for a very long time all caravan installations have been protected by an RCD which (if working correctly) nearly eliminates most risk of serious electric shock .

I personally have no concerns over the so-called 'reverse-polarity' issue, especially in modern caravans which have dual pole MCBs. I do have a slight concern over the possibility of a lack of a satisfactory earth via the EHU. In some circumstances a simple earth spike to the caravan metalwork may be desirable to ensure RCD operation in all circumstances.

1. I was talking about the RCD in the supply box, not inside the caravan.

2. It matters not whether the MCB is dual pole or not if the outlet socket switches in the caravan are single pole. If the supply is reversed then whatever is connected will stay live when the outlet switch is off - which most (non-electrical) people would assume means that the connected device is safe. IME generally people will assume that a blue plug connection (direct, not via Schuko adapter) would be correctly polarised but on the continent you have a 50/50 chance of it not being - and that can be anywhere, not just France. I have encountered reverse wiring on blue sockets in Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, and the Netherlands and no earth on many as well!

3. I would NEVER apply a local earth to the caravan. There may be earth continuity into and inside the supply post but there is nothing to say there is an earth arriving at the post. Under a fault situation on another connection your earth could be carrying everything - indeed you could be carrying the earth current for the whole site if the earth on the site feed had failed (and how would you or anyone else know unless there was reason to test it?)

I admit to one senior moment: the MCB or fuse in the supply box will likely be single pole, it is only inside the caravan that the incoming supply is double pole switched.

 

[Anseo]

Just been looking at buying some IP67 rated 230v plugs and sockets and found these, comparable prices to IP44's.

Think I might order 2 of each and postage is only £2.08 and total cost is £15.80 for all four, so less than 4 quid each, seems good to me.

http://www.elementlighting.co.uk/switches-and-sockets/industrial-plugs-sockets/premium-ip67-industrial/industrial-coupler-16a-2p-e-220-240v-6h.-ip67-blue
http://www.elementlighting.co.uk/switches-and-sockets/industrial-plugs-sockets/premium-ip67-industrial/industrial-plug-16a-2p-e-220v-240v-plug-6h.-ip67-blue

 

[Hutch]

John , dont see why, neither plugs, are waterproof when hòoked up
When on the few occasions we have to link a longer lead, its a plasic bag and then cling film. . On disconecting. Feed (power end first).

Just reread and it states that the IP 67 are waterproof to - 1 meter.

 

[otherclive]

Likewise and it's generally an orange Sainsbury bag to match cable

 

[Craigyoung]

Snap . Only once put the 2 cables together and like clive said , a bag over the top and the tub we keep the shoes in for a bit extra protection

 

[Anseo]

I hope I have not given the impression that I think IP44's are inferior or unsafe.

I use IP44's and will continue to do so, my initial reason for buying a couple of IP67's was for a specific (non-caravan) purpose, those IP67's have now been commandeered for caravan use

I only posted (442073) because I found IP67's at the same price as IP44's, thought I might as well buy them, I have covered connectors with carrier bags andor raised the connection on a brick or similar to obviate water ingress and never had a problem in doing this, so perhaps the IP67's are overkill, I feel a little bit more comfortable with the IP67's, but that's just lil-ol-me being extra cautious

 

[VicMallows]

2. It matters not whether the MCB is dual pole or not if the outlet socket switches in the caravan are single pole.

3. I would NEVER apply a local earth to the caravan. .

2):
I think it is VERY important that the MCB is dual-pole. In a 'reverse polarity' situation, a fault from line to the caravan metalwork (ground) would NOT trip a single-pole MCB (which is now in the neutral conductor).

I do not really buy the argument that people are so stupid they would poke around inside a piece of equipment
without pulling out the plug and simply rely on the socket switch. I also do not know why people often say the 'European sockets are dual-pole switched' ....... I have never seen a switched shuko socket! (Perhaps there is an argument for prohibiting switched sockets altogether?).
Even where appliances are supplied from a dual-pole switched outlet (such as a spur) there is no absolute guarantee .... one of the contacts may have welded closed and you would not know.

3):
I understand your reasoning. However I am considering the much more likely situation where you simply have NO earth coming from the bollard. In very dry conditions, and if the caravan has plastic feet on the steadies, then the resistance from the caravan metalwork to ground may be so high that the RCD in the van is effectively inoperative because the metalwork simply assumes the leakage potential. It is only when something (a person) bridges the metalwork to ground that a current will flow, and if sufficient trip the RCD.

Interestingly, to guard against your original concern about carrying a very large fault current, perhaps the VERY old type of earth breaker could be of use here!: they worked by detecting current (measured in Amps rather than mA) in the earth wire to a grounding stake and broke the main circuit. They were often used in 2-wire overhead distribution where it was difficult to provide a good local earth.
(We would then need to add a suitably rated fuse into our local ground to protect our cable )