How long before British manufacturers loose their market ?

[OmOnWeelz]

Sorry cookieones you're getting the wrong end of the stick.
It doesn't matter where you buy really, but popping in to your local Ford dealer and buying two hundred miles away is not really a problem. If the nearest Ford dealer was 200 miles away and you had to drive there first to assess and a look see then Ford wouldn't sell so many cars.
Wide dealer networks provide the places to go and see vans as well as providing servicing.
I think many UK vans are overpriced and lack build quality and after a series of European cars ,we made followed my Land Rover dream, 3 Disco's x 3 nightmares. I couldn't care less now where a car, caravan or TV is built we'll have a foreign built car next time and do away with poor manufacturing and Sh**y dealer attitude

 

[JonnyG]

How many dealers did Burstner have? If you take on a new market you need to make sure you have a large dealer network to cover the country.
Stocking parts is no dfferent than having an extra model in the range really. LH or RH the caravan still needs many of the same interior parts and again the ends in many cases would syay much the same. Good designers would design build process allowing for swap over with parts such as side cupboards and kitchen set-ups.
Failure of continental manufacturers to make inroads to UK sales is likely to be based on UK build problem experiences. A Swift or Lunar with a problem has a factory here that will hopefully have the van back to resolve a problem, Buy a Knaus or other foreign van and that changes unless you have a full network and prove build quality and reliability of build.

Interesting.response but Burstner do have uk back up and did have a network,might not be big but their motor homes are still sold here so whatever network they had in place should have been more than big enough to deal with projected sales? It appears sales did not match expectations,so i will stick with my earlier opinion . After all if it was not for forums like this, i would still think it unbelievable,how many criticisms i come across concerning new caravan faults and build quality and still think they were as robust as caravans of old.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Sorry you have really lost me now, I was not replying in whole to your original post only your quote : why is your warranty only with dealer you purchased from, if you buy a Ford car you take it to any Ford dealer who repairs it under warranty and bills Ford - is this not what happened in my instance whereas a third party carried out the service and dealt with the warranty issues and then billed Bailey caravans.

Regards Allan.

 

[oldbarn]

As a newcomer to the world of caravaning and to this site, I am slightly bemused with some comments regarding preferences for UK manufacturers. Surely this was similar to the car/truck industry attitude in the 80's & 90's regarding European built models (as mentioned by a previous poster) and their perceived lack of 'suitability' in the UK. Look what happened then. All caravanners are also car buyers and how many own 'foreign' built cars, 80/90%? I have posted on another thread in response to a question concerning the new width limit and I'm convinced that there is a market for wider vans (and maybe longer ones as well) that the UK manufacturers are a) not currently meeting and b) show no inclination to bother with, judging by the conversations I had on stands at the NEC. However, the conversation I had with Hobby who import 2.5m wide vans into the UK was very positive and they were expecting to capitalise on the new (April-so not too new) regulations. I am also a sailor and have seen what has happened to the UK yacht building industry over the last 30 years-total decimation! The power boat makers are holding their own because they are innovating and providing what the markets wants (or think they want). In my opinion, if UK manufacturers don't wake up and 'smell the coffee' they will go the same way as the car/truck/yacht makers over the last 30 years.

 

[NigelDonnelly]

I don't think that anyone can accuse the UK market of not innovating. Bailey and Swift have obviously made big splashes in the last couple of seasons but this has pushed all manufacturers to start working on new ways of doing things.

With the change in rules on caravan widths, the introduction of European Type Approval over the next couple of years and a wealth of new caravanners looking at things with fresh eyes, there is an opportunity for German and French manufacturers could regain a foothold, but unless UK caravanners start to accept less equipment, front fixed beds, small lounges and small washrooms there is still a long way for things to go before continental tourers become a mainstream choice. Factor in the cost implication of buying a caravan originally priced in Euros too, and its an expensive option.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi Nigel…………..I think the arguments presented in this thread are indicative of the massive problems British Industry have faced in the past and possibly the future.
I own a Burstner and have been impressed with the conservative engineering, apart from the window problem which is affecting all Brands.

Germany is proving that slow, but sure, development plans work. In the UK we are good on innovation and invention, but development and manufacture often do not come up to the mark.

Our largest caravan manufacturer is doing its best to overcome quality issues, but I would question the wisdom of adding a roof window on a curved forward facing elevation. In engineering terms, you could not design a more difficult feature. We know from past forums that structural rigidity is paramount, any flexing of the caravan body will cause failure and water ingress and I think if you do the stress calculations, you will find that cutting the body shell in this elevation will significantly reduce the tensional strength. I really hope I am wrong! I would be interested to know how much testing and development has been carried.

The best compromise would be UK innovation/invention combined with German manufacturing. Regards Andrew

 

[JohnnyV]

Nigel,
I take your point - but conversley what is to stop the Europeans offering the specifications that we look for (other than potentially cost) ?
Maybe I am confused about the real definition of innovation - certainly a roof window is innovative in one sense of the word, it does add to the looks and appeal (no comment on the structural integrity isue), but given that we already have large rooflights can we really call in Innovative ? If someone was to solve the 'Fixed Bed reducing floor space' or a slide out doubling your lounge area, then these are what I would term real innovation.
Anyway is the finish & engineering on Continentals superior ? I don't really know, its only what I have seen pics of or read - how about some addition to the mag with some reviews of what our continental cousins are buying - that way we all be better informed (if you need a volunteer to go over just give me a call) ?
Regards
Jon

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Nigel wrote
"I don't think that anyone can accuse the UK market of not innovating"

I think Nigel has bought in to the manufacturers press releases and spin to much. The issue is not only build quality but weight and fuel economy as well. Bailey and Swift have not exactly produced lighter less brick like aerodymic designs have they!
Baileys Alutech 'innovation' is a backward step if anything as well, nice idea but it is bolted together and needs servicing where other industries bond seal and waterproof for life and have offered 25+ years warrantees for some years. Aircraft and cars get lighter whilst caravans seem to increase in weight despite having chassis that are much lighter than a few years ago. When you look at Stealth instead of innovation that the name could suggest to some minds, you just get yet another 'lardy arsed' version on the current UK builds.

 

[JohnnyV]

OnOnWeelz,
Good point - we should be getting lighter, or at least packing more in without increasing weight or compromising payload.
An engineer will probably shoot me down in flames but why not a solid plastic bodyshell from which only the windows or door spaces are cut out ? Would it be heavy, or not practical ? Surely it would avoid damp problems ?
As I said if Nigel want's a volunteer to go and inspect the 'competition' maybe he could send both of us cynics ?
I go back to DustyDogs comment that he has seen nothing in the last two years that would make him want to change his Wyoming - Why Hasn't He !
Cheers
Jon

 

[anotherDavid]

I think British manufactures have some time yet to get thier acts together not in the design stakes but reliablity and quality. We now own a Fendt Platin after parting with our 6 year old Hymer Nova 2 years ago. Compared with UK vans they could reasonably be described as Spartan and under equipped but what caused us to go down the German route was reliability and damp resistance and incidentally the door being on the right side where we do our caravanning. In our experience the only problems likely to arise (with German built) are with the industry standard kit such as fridges and heaters etc. This week whilst booking it in for a service I could not help overhearing the client in front of me listing a shockingly long list of warranty work he needed attending to (on his Uk built and expensive van). Unfortunately the strength of the Euro has priced European vans off the market for the time being and this type of build quality will have some time to run yet.