What do forum members feel about the introduction of ID cards? More to the point what do they feel about having to hand over more hard earned cash to the government in order to obtain one?
ID cards
- Thread starter AnnM1
- Start date
I gather the new tactic is to introduce them by stealth, what is new with New Labour? If you renew your passport the information for the ID card will be demanded at the same time, whether you actually wish one or not. Either way the government gets more data on you that it can sell for marketing purposes. Their issue will not stop one single terrorist action, as even the government admits. The French have had them for many years, but they act severely on citizens who either abuse, or break the law and removal of the ID card can mean getting thrown out of France. That is very unlikely to happen here. In addition, fraud will be rampant and it is likely that those responsible will be given government money to 'refrain'. Not even Monty Python could dream up the scenarios this lot plan.
OK - Someone had to start me off on this one didn't they!
I have no problem with the concept of ID cards - after all what is a Passport/Driving Licence etc.?
BUT - AND IT IS A S*DING GREAT ENORMOUS "BUT" - my problem is where they store all the data on us all.
Is this going to be in some awful computer system by a company who got the job because it was the lowest cost. Will the system be open to anyone who wants to buy the information because the operators are school/university/college leavers so much in debt via their Student Loans that selling false ID cards becomes "a nice little earner".
What truly appals me is the starry eyed enthusiasm of those that say this system will stop crime/terrorism/identity theft!
How is it going to do that? Apparently the ID card will have a retinal scan on it. So does that mean that every shop in the UK is going to have to fork out for a Retinal Scanner?
What about the checkouts at Tescos? - a retinal scanner on each one?
Am I, as an IFA going to have to have a Retinal Scanner so that when someone wants to invest some money I can check they are who they say they are on their ID card?
I doubt it.
Finally - I am sure we have heard of the term "Do not put all your eggs in one basket".
Can anyone else see the problem of having the entire population of the UK's details on file in one place?
At the moment Driving Licences are at the DVLC ( and they have been found guilty of selling our information to third parties despite the Information Commissioners Office warning to them not to.) and our Passport info is on another database.
And of course the CSA is a wonderful example of just how well a government can run a database.
So this proposal is aiming to put all our information together in one place. Is this to deliberately make it easier for the criminals to access it via a "bent" employee on the inside?
For those people who say ID cards are nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide I would suggest that your faith in the ability of Government to:-
a) Run a complex database
b) Stop it leaking like a sieve
is touchingly naive.
I have no problem with the concept of ID cards - after all what is a Passport/Driving Licence etc.?
BUT - AND IT IS A S*DING GREAT ENORMOUS "BUT" - my problem is where they store all the data on us all.
Is this going to be in some awful computer system by a company who got the job because it was the lowest cost. Will the system be open to anyone who wants to buy the information because the operators are school/university/college leavers so much in debt via their Student Loans that selling false ID cards becomes "a nice little earner".
What truly appals me is the starry eyed enthusiasm of those that say this system will stop crime/terrorism/identity theft!
How is it going to do that? Apparently the ID card will have a retinal scan on it. So does that mean that every shop in the UK is going to have to fork out for a Retinal Scanner?
What about the checkouts at Tescos? - a retinal scanner on each one?
Am I, as an IFA going to have to have a Retinal Scanner so that when someone wants to invest some money I can check they are who they say they are on their ID card?
I doubt it.
Finally - I am sure we have heard of the term "Do not put all your eggs in one basket".
Can anyone else see the problem of having the entire population of the UK's details on file in one place?
At the moment Driving Licences are at the DVLC ( and they have been found guilty of selling our information to third parties despite the Information Commissioners Office warning to them not to.) and our Passport info is on another database.
And of course the CSA is a wonderful example of just how well a government can run a database.
So this proposal is aiming to put all our information together in one place. Is this to deliberately make it easier for the criminals to access it via a "bent" employee on the inside?
For those people who say ID cards are nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide I would suggest that your faith in the ability of Government to:-
a) Run a complex database
b) Stop it leaking like a sieve
is touchingly naive.
I reserve my right to condemn it if it doesn't work once in operation, I refuse to be pessimistic. As I posted earlier I don't know enough about the technicalities of it, probably like the rest of the forum users who condemn it before its started. All I see at the moment is IF IF IF which in that case IF the dog hadn't stopped to sh*t he would have caught the rabbit.
The only purpose ID cards will serve is to be yet another stealth tax forced on to the hard working , over taxed British people by Bliar .
The track record of Government databases is appalling. As I said before - the CSA is a prime example.
At the moment there is no one single repository of data for all Uk Citizens.
Settin one up is like giving the criminals a Christmas every month. Criminals have ALLWAYS been one step ahead of the authorities. The weak link in this scheme will be those that are paid a pittance to work on it.
If you want proof - just look at what is hapening now on existing databases - most are compromised by employees seeing an opportunity or being paid by gangs to set things up on the "inside".
Such a database as is being proposed would be incredably expensive to run - again see the info on the CSA. So I suppose after a few years it would be like the call centres and be run from the cheapest country possible.
At the moment there is no one single repository of data for all Uk Citizens.
Settin one up is like giving the criminals a Christmas every month. Criminals have ALLWAYS been one step ahead of the authorities. The weak link in this scheme will be those that are paid a pittance to work on it.
If you want proof - just look at what is hapening now on existing databases - most are compromised by employees seeing an opportunity or being paid by gangs to set things up on the "inside".
Such a database as is being proposed would be incredably expensive to run - again see the info on the CSA. So I suppose after a few years it would be like the call centres and be run from the cheapest country possible.
- Mar 14, 2005
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I have to agree with Clive, most of us already have a driving licence, which I have often used to confirm my identity, becuase it has a picture it is sligtly better than a "recent domestic utilities bill" needed for things like the CRB checks.
I also agree that the track record of government departement database control is abysmal. But even when these so alled secure systems tend to leak, those that should offer real benefits don't work, such as the availability of medical records between Hospitals.
I recently had to have a heart valve replaced, as my local Hospital Trust do not do Heart Surgery of this type I had to transfer to an adjacent hospital in Wolverhampton.
My medical records were readily available to clinics and outlying facilities within the Trust, but I was amazed that my medical records could not be sent via computer to Wolverhampton.
I had to recount my entier history again at Wolverhampton. Apparently it is to do with data protection.
How daft.
I also agree that the track record of government departement database control is abysmal. But even when these so alled secure systems tend to leak, those that should offer real benefits don't work, such as the availability of medical records between Hospitals.
I recently had to have a heart valve replaced, as my local Hospital Trust do not do Heart Surgery of this type I had to transfer to an adjacent hospital in Wolverhampton.
My medical records were readily available to clinics and outlying facilities within the Trust, but I was amazed that my medical records could not be sent via computer to Wolverhampton.
I had to recount my entier history again at Wolverhampton. Apparently it is to do with data protection.
How daft.
Ann
I can understand many peoples fears about ID Cards, But they are unfounded unlees there is somthing to hide. I have carried an ID card for over forty years,and not found anything detremental to it's use. I am not at liberty to divulge the type of card I hold.
The point is that ID cards will be issued in the near future, not if but when, the next generation cards will be issued when a person is born containing DNA code Nat insurance no, along with any medical history,this will be invaluable in the event of accident or disaster. this will be stored on a chip, that cannot be altered.
I can understand many peoples fears about ID Cards, But they are unfounded unlees there is somthing to hide. I have carried an ID card for over forty years,and not found anything detremental to it's use. I am not at liberty to divulge the type of card I hold.
The point is that ID cards will be issued in the near future, not if but when, the next generation cards will be issued when a person is born containing DNA code Nat insurance no, along with any medical history,this will be invaluable in the event of accident or disaster. this will be stored on a chip, that cannot be altered.
Hi Jim
I have no problem with the carrying of the card itself - after all I carry a Driving Licence and a Passport when abroad.
The REAL issue is where all this information on us is going to be stored.
At the moment the DVLA is being heavily criticised for selling our details to some very unsavoury organisations and this despite the Information Commissioners telling the DVLA that such actions breaks the Data Protection Act.
If we have one central database with all our individual details stored it will be like handing the criminals a Christmas present every day!
All they will have to do is get an employee on the inside and bingo - who do you want to be today?
PLEASE GUYS - Do not think the issue is the carrying of the card itself - we already carry that type of technology on us now - probably the best example would be the Tesco's Club card where Tescos use our purchasing patterns to decide what they stock and monitor who their customers are as by checking our Post Code against what we buy they can determine what Socio economic groups buy what and when.
My point is that based upon the past performance of Governments of any type - the prospect of all that data being held in one place by a firm selected by a Civil Servant on the basis of cost, on a Database whose design is decided by politicians means that the whole thing will be over budget, leak like a sieve and provide more problems than it tries to solve.
I have no problem with the carrying of the card itself - after all I carry a Driving Licence and a Passport when abroad.
The REAL issue is where all this information on us is going to be stored.
At the moment the DVLA is being heavily criticised for selling our details to some very unsavoury organisations and this despite the Information Commissioners telling the DVLA that such actions breaks the Data Protection Act.
If we have one central database with all our individual details stored it will be like handing the criminals a Christmas present every day!
All they will have to do is get an employee on the inside and bingo - who do you want to be today?
PLEASE GUYS - Do not think the issue is the carrying of the card itself - we already carry that type of technology on us now - probably the best example would be the Tesco's Club card where Tescos use our purchasing patterns to decide what they stock and monitor who their customers are as by checking our Post Code against what we buy they can determine what Socio economic groups buy what and when.
My point is that based upon the past performance of Governments of any type - the prospect of all that data being held in one place by a firm selected by a Civil Servant on the basis of cost, on a Database whose design is decided by politicians means that the whole thing will be over budget, leak like a sieve and provide more problems than it tries to solve.
I have had to carry an ID card by law in my native country for the past 40 years or since I was sixteen. It contains a record of my driver's licence, firearms licence etc. I still carry it with me over here and it is accepted as an ID. No problem with carrying it as it was helpful on occasions, but at least it was issued free.
Clive
I agree the storage of data is maybe not as secure as they would like us to beleive. I never use store affinity cards as they only serve to track what and when you buy.as with sky tv plugged into phone line the only propose is to track what you watch, The big brother sindrome arrived many years ago with the old tradeing stamps it has got more sofistcated now but is still a tracking system.
however with nothing to hide nothing to fear, ID's will only be as safe or as good as the system will allow, nothing is 100% foolproof in this life, so why wory you die if you do, you die if you don't that is 100%
Anyway matey
Keep smiling.
Jim M
I have just read in a newspaper today that the government are 'considering' (we know what that means) inserting radio transmitters in the new ID cards in order that they can track everyones movement! Big Brother is certainly waiting in the wings!
OMGGGGGGGG Ann .. shush.... some are paranoid enough about this subject. HEHEHEHEH! That reminds me, I forgot to check under my bed last night before I went to sleep. :O(
We actually have more ID than passport/drivers license in this country.
1 A birth certificate
2 A medical card with our own unique number and letters
3 An NI card issued to all before leaving school
4 then all applied for ID's
Why not just improve the NI card with photo's ommit the name so if asked to produce ID only the person it belongs to knows the name that should be on there. It only takes a second to call in and check we could all have passwords known only to us aswell.
Just a thought.
1 A birth certificate
2 A medical card with our own unique number and letters
3 An NI card issued to all before leaving school
4 then all applied for ID's
Why not just improve the NI card with photo's ommit the name so if asked to produce ID only the person it belongs to knows the name that should be on there. It only takes a second to call in and check we could all have passwords known only to us aswell.
Just a thought.
Well Iv'e read all the foregoing stuff and all the well known for and against arguments have been aired but nobody has commented on, what for me is the most farcical point, namely it will not be compulsary to actually carry ones ID card on ones person.
Now excuse me but isn't the fundamental purpose of an ID card to identify the person it relates to!
I had to carry a forces F1250 (never did use Brycleam though) for over 20 years, never complained as it went with the territory, even though it was an offence under military law to lose it or not show it when asked.
I can see the purpose of a card under the "siege" conditions that some politicans insist we now live in but they have rather blown it if they then say we don't need to carry it all the time.
As I am now in the Autumn of life I shall extend the voluntary aspect of carrying a card into the application process - hopefully then I will never have to sufer the indignity of surrendering a cherised aspect of Britishness i.e. freedom of the individual, to what will almost certainly be a mismanaged hiatas of data and plastic and be charged a fortune for it into the bargain!
Now excuse me but isn't the fundamental purpose of an ID card to identify the person it relates to!
I had to carry a forces F1250 (never did use Brycleam though) for over 20 years, never complained as it went with the territory, even though it was an offence under military law to lose it or not show it when asked.
I can see the purpose of a card under the "siege" conditions that some politicans insist we now live in but they have rather blown it if they then say we don't need to carry it all the time.
As I am now in the Autumn of life I shall extend the voluntary aspect of carrying a card into the application process - hopefully then I will never have to sufer the indignity of surrendering a cherised aspect of Britishness i.e. freedom of the individual, to what will almost certainly be a mismanaged hiatas of data and plastic and be charged a fortune for it into the bargain!
Smiley and David's points are justified.
If we have all these existing ID documents with the advantage of separate databases (not all your eggs in one basket!) - do we really need an expensive, potentially leaky alternative single alternative that holds data on every thing?
If we are really fighting a war against crime, fanatics and terrorist threat - surely keeping personal data on all of us in one central place is really not a sensible option.
I have no problem in carrying an ID card - it is the implications and "spin" as to the advantages of so doing that concern me.
If we have all these existing ID documents with the advantage of separate databases (not all your eggs in one basket!) - do we really need an expensive, potentially leaky alternative single alternative that holds data on every thing?
If we are really fighting a war against crime, fanatics and terrorist threat - surely keeping personal data on all of us in one central place is really not a sensible option.
I have no problem in carrying an ID card - it is the implications and "spin" as to the advantages of so doing that concern me.
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