Is there a definitive way to find a tow cars capability?

[Eldorado]

We don't currently have a tow car, so I cant go and look at the manual or anything - online there seems to be conflicting views for some (many?) models.

So how do you know? When we are looking at specific cars, how can we find out?

FWIW we are currently liking Mazda CX5 AWD ( would have preferred CX60 but concerned by the issues I keep hearing). I think we would be okay at 1600kg, not sure about 1800kg, not okay at 2000kg?

 

[otherclive]

We don't currently have a tow car, so I cant go and look at the manual or anything - online there seems to be conflicting views for some (many?) models.

So how do you know? When we are looking at specific cars, how can we find out?

FWIW we are currently liking Mazda CX5 AWD ( would have preferred CX60 but concerned by the issues I keep hearing). I think we would be okay at 1600kg, not sure about 1800kg, not okay at 2000kg?

The car will have a label giving its max towing specifications based on maximum train weight and axle loads. The V5 should give braked towing load and look at the owners handbooks and Mazda website.
Often a car will specify a towing load but that doesn’t mean it would be good with a caravan of that weight. Caravans are big flimsy boxes that are more affected by wind, road perturbation, other vehicles, owner driving inexperience or ignorance and loadings of car and van. Compared to a flat low car trailer a caravan is totally different.

There’s a guide that recommends the caravan MTPLM should be 85% of the cars kerbweight for inexperienced drivers. It’s quite conservative but it’s a starting point.

 

[Woodentop]

The usually accepted figure is 40bhp per tonne of train weight as a minimum. Ergo a 1400kg van on a 1600kg car = 3000kg so you should aim for 120bhp minimum. In practice you will likely find diesel engines around 150bhp are very common and will give you plenty of driveability. VAG - if you can still find a diesel - do a 150bhp that goes in almost every range - VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda. We had three Passat Estates and now have a Skoda Karoq Sportline. All Passats towed our Bailey Pegasus 462 and Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville 2-berth without problem and the Karoq now tows our Unicorn S5 Deluxe (exactly 11in longer but exactly the same weight) with just as much ease. In fact I think the dealer we use still has our Unicorn S4 on his used lot and its in immaculate condition.

 

[otherclive]

The OP gives no idea of which CX5 might be of interest. There’s reviews on CMHC and this PC might help.

Mazda CX-5 - Practical Caravan

It has long been one of our favourite mid-sized SUVs, so what tow car ability does the latest Mazda CX-5 have? Let's get a van, hitch up and go testing!

www.practicalcaravan.com

 

[Jcloughie]

I have a 2023 2 liter FWD CX5 165bhp reports say it is a reasonable tow car up to 1800kg. I have not towed with it. My previous 2 litre diesel Volvo had more grunt. And towed really well.

I may be starting to tow again and we are looking at arounfb1650 kg. So fingers crossed.

The petrol 4WD is 2.5 liter is 191bhp. People say it is little different.

Look at CX5 forums re towing.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

We don't currently have a tow car, so I cant go and look at the manual or anything - online there seems to be conflicting views for some (many?) models.

So how do you know? When we are looking at specific cars, how can we find out?

FWIW we are currently liking Mazda CX5 AWD ( would have preferred CX60 but concerned by the issues I keep hearing). I think we would be okay at 1600kg, not sure about 1800kg, not okay at 2000kg?

Just to clarify, many cars have a generic user handbook that covers a range of models, rather than one specific model. Consequently weights, measures and limits can be difficult to unravel from the general text. The fact is each specific model can have its own set of load limits which might be unique to that one model. To be certain, you need to see the vehicles weight plate which defines four specific limits for each car

The four limits are
Line 1: The Gross Vehicle Mass or Maximum Authorised Mass
Line 2: The Gross Train Mass (the maximum mass of the car and trailer weighed hitched together)
Line3: Front Axle Maximum Load
Line 4: Rear Axle Maximum Load

(If line 2 is empty or set "0" the car you have chosen is not approved for towing)

These are strict legal limits with no tolerance. At no time should you load in excess of any of these static limits.

A simple calculation of Line 2 - Line 1 will tell you the maximum allowed trailer mass you can tow when the car is fully laden.

Just becasue you keep within these limits does not guarantee your outfit will tow safely. That is down to how you load and drive the outfit.

 

[Eldorado]

thanks folks, I have read so much on this topic. Finding facts has been challenging, and there seem to be many conflicting opinions.

Maybe some additional specific facts will help:

Mazda quote a max towing capability of 1800kg to 2100kg depending on the engine power and gearbox - but that is 12% gradient towing capability, not a caravan on the open road "towing capability", so unhelpful (I think)

Current CX5 AWD comes in 2.5 Petrol (kerb weight around 1650kg) and 2.2 Diesel (kerb weight around 1760kg).

Obviously would still need to check the plate on actual car and caravan, but those numbers seem to suggest the diesel will be suited to a 1600kg caravan. And an 1800kg (or more) caravan would not be okay.

BUT - I also seem to see lots of weight variation quoted by Caravan sellers for seemingly the same model, eg Adria Adora Seine (bigger than our likely first caravan but a possible future van) have seen anything from 1612kg to 1800kg for seeming identical 2022/23 models - so CX5 might be okay, it might not

2 reasons for needing to understand this properly
#1 dont want to ever be unsafe / illegal with this stuff
#2 will soon be buying our first caravan, we might change it in a year or two. We are buying a new car specifically for caravanning, don't want to have to change car again next year if its not up to the job

 

[Jcloughie]

As stated above, I am considering using my CX5 2ltr 2wd to tow a yet to purchase caravan with a mtplm of 1624

The cars plate states,



Therefore 2000kg.

However Mazda put an 1800kg limitation on towing. This is for all models, 2020 on so not sure where the OP gets 1800 to 2100

Tow Safe provide this info.



Trying to research suitability is difficult. Cannot actually find anyone with realistic experience. Just lots of deisle owners saying they would not think about it. (But then they would, wouldn’t they).

In the past, I have towed with less powerful cars. Not sure of weights as that was before we took much notice.

If this goes ahead for me. It is only for one 60 mile tow. It would be legal, but will the engine cope.

I don’t think the 4WD will make a lot of difference, though nice for a wet field.

My previous Volvo V70 diesel was 135 bhp. But masses of torque and a superb tow car. My Mazda is 162bhp. I understand why the OP wants to get assurance. Even if a car is capable. It is nice to have power and stability in reserve.

John

 

[Eldorado]

WRT CX5 Max of 2100kg, that came from the table local Mazda dealer had and refers to the "European up to 12% Gradient", so limited use for judging real world towing

1800kg for 2.0 Petrol / manual gearbox
2000kg for other engine / gearbox combinations
2100kg for one of the Diesel / Auto combinations but not others

 

[GaryB]

Just lots of diesel owners saying they would not think about it. (But then they would, wouldn’t they).

They're living in the past and clearly forget that prior to the 1990's when diesel was pushed as "the fuel of the future" most folks drove petrol cars anyway. I've had several diesel AND petrol tow cars and all have been spot-on up to the manufacturers towing limits (way over any caravan industry recommendations). I used a petrol Volvo 940 LPT and a 2.0 Vauxhall Omega to haul cars on a twin axle trailer with no issues.

My last two cars have been petrol and cope with a caravan just fine. There's no doubt that the torque of a diesel engine is great, but you don't NEED that level of torque to tow a caravan.

You'll be just fine John.

 

[RogerL]

WRT CX5 Max of 2100kg, that came from the table local Mazda dealer had and refers to the "European up to 12% Gradient", so limited use for judging real world towing

1800kg for 2.0 Petrol / manual gearbox
2000kg for other engine / gearbox combinations
2100kg for one of the Diesel / Auto combinations but not others

The 12% gradient factor isn't limited use - particularly in mainland Europe - if you ignore it and come to a standstill on a 12% hill, or ramp, your only choice is to reverse down.

Frankly if a car + caravan can't restart on a 12% gradient then it's a useless tow car in my opinion.

Newbies shouldn't be trying to squeeze every last kg out of the towing limit - lower your sights a bit, it might mean compromising on layout and/or choice of caravan. If you want to tow 2000 kg, or more, get a big SUV.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Do not confuse the weight limits as conferring safety to an outfit. Safety is about correct secure loading to achieve a suitable nose load, and sensible driving habits. and proper maintenance of tow vehicle and trailer.

A car and trailer that is loaded correctly can still be driven recklessly and be a danger to self or others.

Follow the advice I gave in #6 about vehicle weights, that is the law, and you must only use the plate related to your vehicle. A similar model may be different and has no lawful application to your vehicle.

The 85% figure is an advisory figure and has no law backing it, but it does hint at the sensible approach of always using the smallest trailer possible for the job in hand to keep the weight of the trailer as small as is reasonably possible. You must still keep all weights and load within the cars stated limits, regardless of any advice that might suggest otherwise.

 

[Dustydog]

I have towed for years with petrol and last 20 years diesel.

Both have no problems. However just remember the max BHP and torque on a petrol will be at a higher rpm than a diesel. Maybe that has changed but I much prefer a low rpm for max power, which probably means diesel .

Alternatively there’s nothing stopping you considering an EV . No joke. There are some terrific used bargains out there and most are beefy heavy weights😉

 

[Jcloughie]

WRT CX5 Max of 2100kg, that came from the table local Mazda dealer had and refers to the "European up to 12% Gradient", so limited use for judging real world towing

1800kg for 2.0 Petrol / manual gearbox
2000kg for other engine / gearbox combinations
2100kg for one of the Diesel / Auto combinations but not others

Thank you. I stand corrected. The specs I read said 1800 for all models. So mine is now 2000. I am only looking for 1624 plus car loading. So will be well within the capabilities (on paper).

John

 

[RogerL]

I have towed for years with petrol and last 20 years diesel.

Both have no problems. However just remember the max BHP and torque on a petrol will be at a higher rpm than a diesel. Maybe that has changed but I much prefer a low rpm for max power, which probably means diesel .

Alternatively there’s nothing stopping you considering an EV . No joke. There are some terrific used bargains out there and most are beefy heavy weights😉

Most modern turbo-petrols have their maximum torque at low rpm, just like turbo-diesels.

Towing limits on EVs seems to be even more of a minefield than petrol/diesel.

 

[Tobes]

Most modern turbo-petrols have their maximum torque at low rpm, just like turbo-diesels.

Towing limits on EVs seems to be even more of a minefield than petrol/diesel.

I am not sure they are _more_ of a mine field, just the same mine field with electric motors. The fact is manufacturers change ratings amongst different spec cars in the same model year, the same spec car for different model years, or pretty much any other occasion that suits. That's just as true for EV as for ICE or vice versa.

It's also true that some manufacturers are very good at publishing towing weights and limits, and others are very poor. That holds for EVs too.

 

[GaryB]

Thank you. I stand corrected. The specs I read said 1800 for all models. So mine is now 2000. I am only looking for 1624 plus car loading. So will be well within the capabilities (on paper).

John

My previous petrol tow car was a 2022 Volvo V90 B4 (petrol, towing limit 2000kgs) and we towed a 2018 Sprite Quattro twin axle, MTPLM upgraded from 1624kgs to 1800kgs and it was fine, I couldn't tell any difference to the 2018 V90 diesel that it replaced. It had 197bhp and 300Nm torque and reached legal speeds very quickly with a caravan on the back. It was also extremely unreliable which is why I no longer have it!

 

[Tobes]

2 reasons for needing to understand this properly
#1 dont want to ever be unsafe / illegal with this stuff
#2 will soon be buying our first caravan, we might change it in a year or two. We are buying a new car specifically for caravanning, don't want to have to change car again next year if its not up to the job

I would say your reason #2 is as critical as #1. Clearly you dont want to be illegal, but by the same token, if you plan to keep this car for a long time, you need it to be the right car for its main job. My guess is that its main job is not towing the caravan, but being your regular transport.

To that end - pick a car that is great solo, that can _also_ do the job you need for towing. On the few occasions you need it to.

 

[Dustydog]

What's your annual mileage Eldorado?

 

[Jcloughie]

My previous petrol tow car was a 2022 Volvo V90 B4 (petrol, towing limit 2000kgs) and we towed a 2018 Sprite Quattro twin axle, MTPLM upgraded from 1624kgs to 1800kgs and it was fine, I couldn't tell any difference to the 2018 V90 diesel that it replaced. It had 197bhp and 300Nm torque and reached legal speeds very quickly with a caravan on the back. It was also extremely unreliable which is why I no longer have it!

The difference with the Mazda is it is naturally aspirated. However, in the 80’s I towed a Sprite Muskateer:



With a 1.6 non turbo Fiat Mirafiori.




John

 

[ProfJohnL]

As stated above, I am considering using my CX5 2ltr 2wd to tow a yet to purchase caravan with a mtplm of 1624

The cars plate states,

View attachment 8985

Therefore 2000kg.

However Mazda put an 1800kg limitation on towing. This is for all models, 2020 on so not sure where the OP gets 1800 to 2100

...

Given the information on the data plate you have shown, which as you correctly state the difference between GTM and GVM is 2000kg, that prescribes the towing capacity when the car is fully laden as 2000Kg, and that is what the law would see.

 

[Jcloughie]

Given the information on the data plate you have shown, which as you correctly state the difference between GTM and GVM is 2000kg, that prescribes the towing capacity when the car is fully laden as 2000Kg, and that is what the law would see.

I understand that, but worth pointing out nevertheless.

John

 

[Beachball]

The difference with the Mazda is it is naturally aspirated. However, in the 80’s I towed a Sprite Muskateer:

View attachment 8989

With a 1.6 non turbo Fiat Mirafiori.

View attachment 8990


John

Hi John it a small world but we had a Sprite Alpine with a Fiat Mirafiori 1.6 mine was yellow but it towed brilliant 🙏