Knights of the road or

[g_374369443]

One other point Sadie, you should think yourself lucky to be held up for only 22 miles by a hgv.

Normally and i am surprised you have not come across this one, you will found the middle lane hogger in a car, that stays there for their complete journey! so you were lucky you did not come across one of those doing 56 mph.!

 

[GeorgeB]

Shadie,

The time constraints on a LGV driver is that BY LAW they cannot drive over a certain time limit, fortunately (or not as the case may be) we non LGV drivers are not constrained by this law so we can, if we choose to, drive, inc towing our trailers/caravans, for 24 hours if we want to!

Incidently, the speed limiters are set by the tacho on a LGV & the tacho's are calibrated to +/- 6 kph, & they even take into account the size (rolling radius) of the trucks tyres when calibrating the tacho, our cars, vans etc do not have this constraint & our speedo's are NOT calibrated but "should" be accurate to +/- 10mph (16kph).

I'm not condoning the sheer stupidity of trying to overtake another vehicle when you know full well that you will take up to 10 miles or so to get past the vehicle you're trying to overtake & thus block the progress of any other vehicle who although not restricted by speed are restricted to lane 2.

So maybe, just maybe, there is a case for caravanners being able to use lane 3, subject to speed restrictions, to get past these invertable, intermidable 2 lane LGV "convoys".

So instead of venting our frustrations at the LGV drivers, should we not lobby the dept of transport to change the law regarding towing trailers & caravans in lane 3, after all vehicle & caravan technology has moved on a pace since this law was passed.

What say you all?

 

[ShadySadie]

**** is open to your own interpretation g "mush" is the word I would use.

A lane hogging car driver does not have any where near the danger potential compared to the inertia of 40 tonne HGV.

I'd already pointed out that the Truck Shuffle Jockeys go side by side with those that flash when you are clear to pull to the inside.

The instances yesterday were just annoying, frustrating and uncalled for. Judging by the reaction and driving of other truckers and drivers who were prepared to risk theirs and others lives they would not agree with the little red book by chairman g guide to trucking :0)

A following lorry dropping back and flashing all its lights and sounding it air horns so the truck trying to overtake could pull in should have been some kind of signal by the 5th time he'd done it. But no two truckers just rolled on obilvious to the trucks in their wake.

 

[g_374369443]

"I take issue with trucks long distant passing attemps being safe and legal. A few cam every close to side swiping one another yesterday and the distance between trucks was often far to close by far and probably held more potential danger wise than a trailer in the fast lane at 75mph.

Because a truck is travelling on the motoraway at its limited 56mph max does not make the drivers actions safe or legal.

Truckers intimidating other road users with their vehicles bulk is one fine example".

!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I do wonder.

I pointed out in an earlier post how if truckers followed the absolute rule of the highway code, i.e. 100 yards behind the vehicle they are going to over take,and then pass that vehicle by the same distance before moving back in,how it would slowdown a lot more m/way users!

But I will add to that, after passing by one lorry and getting the appropriate distance in front before moving back in,might not happen.As low and behold in the distance some 100 yards up the road,there would be another lorry to pass!and so the very think you complain about "22 miles behind a HGV" Would then become common place.

And yet they are better trained than the average only drive a car brigade,and mile for mile have a better safety record too!

But then you deem it OK for other road uses to use the outside lane illegally and travel at excessive speed, and claim they are potentially safer than a HGV at 56! very much doubt it because the person driving illegally in the outside lane and at illegal speed,is clearly a pratt with no thought for any road laws and puts himself/herself above them!

How on earth can that be driving safely!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ShadySadie]

Shadie,

The time constraints on a LGV driver is that BY LAW they cannot drive over a certain time limit, fortunately (or not as the case may be) we non LGV drivers are not constrained by this law so we can, if we choose to, drive, inc towing our trailers/caravans, for 24 hours if we want to!

Incidently, the speed limiters are set by the tacho on a LGV & the tacho's are calibrated to +/- 6 kph, & they even take into account the size (rolling radius) of the trucks tyres when calibrating the tacho, our cars, vans etc do not have this constraint & our speedo's are NOT calibrated but "should" be accurate to +/- 10mph (16kph).

I'm not condoning the sheer stupidity of trying to overtake another vehicle when you know full well that you will take up to 10 miles or so to get past the vehicle you're trying to overtake & thus block the progress of any other vehicle who although not restricted by speed are restricted to lane 2.

So maybe, just maybe, there is a case for caravanners being able to use lane 3, subject to speed restrictions, to get past these invertable, intermidable 2 lane LGV "convoys".

So instead of venting our frustrations at the LGV drivers, should we not lobby the dept of transport to change the law regarding towing trailers & caravans in lane 3, after all vehicle & caravan technology has moved on a pace since this law was passed.

What say you all?

George. I run a business and I'm well aware of drivers hours and tacho's.

But all the HGV's around me yesterday would have been driving to the Tacho.

What help is the kind of road blocking I saw yesterday to fellow HGV drivers forgetting me or any other driver on the road.

I could have easily raced to 80mph plus trailer in tow and passed using the 3rd lane, but that's not the legal game.

I don't know who is worse the driver who can't quite get past or the inside driver that will not drop 2mph to let the other guy past and free the road for ALL other users.

 

[Robert_374373903]

I started another thread reading "annoying comments", well i left one out ,get yourself a life.We all have to get somewhere asap but just except hold ups as just one of those things .

 

[Dustydog]

Alan. quite familiar with health and safety,so maybe you could point out which bit you mean?

In case you did not know,there are other directives that hgv drivers have to comply with, max 4.5 hours driving being one,or 6 hours max work/plus driving and then having to have a break.

So leaving out the one or two hgv drivers that hog the middle lane for 22 miles! all HGV drivers have to think where can they get to so that they can safely stop? on the m/way this means that a driver knowing that a stop is 25 minutes away from being due,and a service area is 20 miles away.has the time to get there as long as he is not held up. If you see what I am getting at.

g

common sense and less demanding bosses. There is a common law duty to drive in a manner that does not put you and other road users at risk. Trying to arrive at certain places at certain times is in itself inherantly dangerous because it stimulates "get homeitis". If the HGVS had say another 15 minutes per leg of journey then maybe having to drive "flat out " watching the clock would cease and the whole thing become far more relaxed, never mind the potential fuel savings.

A stressed driver racing against the clock is not conducive to a healthy safe working practice.

Cheeers

Alan

 

[g_374369443]

Do you know, the more I read this thread the more it struck me,as being somewhat flawed or maybe a little exaggerated for effect?

Forgive me if I am wrong, but 22 miles these lorries were side by side! Yea right, how can that be possible? so for 22 miles[that's about 25minutes of side by side travelling] the lorry in the inside lane came across no traffic going slower than itself!which would have impeded him, and therefore the other lorry in the second lane was also the slowest vehicle on that m/way too!

The que must have been horrendous,or the m/way empty [lol]

Don't get me wrong this side by side thing is annoying and indeed can go on for a fair few miles, but 22? Surely that's stretching it a bit?

 

[ShadySadie]

g o There is NO where in this thread where I have condoned the Freelander driver using the overtaking lane in excess of our speed limit, I could easily have done it myself if I wanted to break the law.

I even put in a further post "a numpty with the Conway behind partly in flight in the fast lane at 70 plus".

On the motorways yesterday trucks in various instances of the rolling road block scenes and in normal lane use were often far closer than a trucks length.

A HGV articulated truck is about 53 or so feet long and I saw trucks within a cars length or so of trucks they were following at times and I'm sure many others have seen that far to many times as I have.

What I said that was that the Freelander towing a Conway folder was potentially no more dangerous than the sittuations caused by the Truck Shuffle and trucks being far to close.

The law here is a regional regulation re towing speed, according to French law 75 mph would have been fine and safe but the HGV's tailgating dangerous and illegal.

100 yards is nearly six HGV's lengths g, if HGV's had used half that length yesterday other drivers would have proabaly taken less risks.

 

[ShadySadie]

I started another thread reading "annoying comments", well i left one out ,get yourself a life.We all have to get somewhere asap but just except hold ups as just one of those things .

Hold ups due to break downs road works of unfortunate accidents fine Robert.

Hold ups only due to inconsiderate Truckers blocking the Highways for mile after mile NO. Get yourself a lif Robert I have better things to do with my time and would prefer not to be part of an unfortunate pile up caused by truck shuffle truckers who at best gain 70 or 80 feet if they eventually pass another truck!

 

[g_374369443]

Sorry Sadie,so this happened in France then?

And if it didn't happen in France but here in the UK, then it is irrelevant and illegal. end of.

and if we are going to use European regions as some type of justification, then in Germany,you can only use the inside lane and travel at 50, unless you have gone to the trouble of having your vehicle MOTd there and meet the criteria .but again irrelevant to anything that happens on British roads all the same.

 

[g_374369443]

g o There is NO where in this thread where I have condoned the Freelander driver using the overtaking lane in excess of our speed limit, I could easily have done it myself if I wanted to break the law.

I even put in a further post "a numpty with the Conway behind partly in flight in the fast lane at 70 plus".

On the motorways yesterday trucks in various instances of the rolling road block scenes and in normal lane use were often far closer than a trucks length.

A HGV articulated truck is about 53 or so feet long and I saw trucks within a cars length or so of trucks they were following at times and I'm sure many others have seen that far to many times as I have.

What I said that was that the Freelander towing a Conway folder was potentially no more dangerous than the sittuations caused by the Truck Shuffle and trucks being far to close.

The law here is a regional regulation re towing speed, according to French law 75 mph would have been fine and safe but the HGV's tailgating dangerous and illegal.

100 yards is nearly six HGV's lengths g, if HGV's had used half that length yesterday other drivers would have proabaly taken less risks.

Drivers should not be taking risks. full stop and no excuses.

 

[ShadySadie]

I guess that g must have hit the Christmas tipple early.

As far as I am aware tail gating activities are not legal any where g. Where as being over a speed limit is not always a danger no matter what British law makers think.

Freelander man may have been breaking the law but so are tailgating truckers!

Trundling along behind the same darn truck for around half an hour and having said to my companion about the mileage mark on my car I know all to well how far the fiasco went on for and was not happy about about the trucks in the ensuing convoy.

A "truck shuffle" road block does not involve trucks being side by side all the time. Dropping back behind the truck being over taken or that truck pulling away a bit is all part of a game that does nothing to aid any other road user. In the main incident yesterday it did nothing to help the two trucks involved, so there is not a lot of point to the activity most of the time.

Happy Christmas

 

[ScouseIan]

Be careful Sadie. Whilst I agree with what you are saying, a lot of people on here will only judge what is dangerous by what is also illegal. My manoeuvre in France was illegal but NOT dangerous, but nobody wants to hear it. Tell it to the judge and all that.

Happy christmas and very safe journeys to all.

 

[g_374369443]

Sadie, you started this thread as an attack not on the whole Hgv drivers put on 2 alone, but your intentions seemed clear to me.

Since then you have made it quite clear that your intention was aimed at HGVs and not just the 2 drivers!

When one considers that tail gatting is more associated with car drivers than HGV drivers, your making an issue of just HGV drivers,shows clearly what your intentions were from the start!.

Lets not even go down the road of your exaggerated claims of 22 miles of 2 hgvs being side to side! nor of the fact that as long as you deem something safe,then road laws should not apply!!!! because you think its safe!!!!!!!

 

[Dustydog]

g

It is a material fact some, NOT all, HGVS take miles to overtake one another.

The bloke SS saw in the Freelander must be mad but then who are we to police his poor performance. Best let the idiots get out of your way.

I hate tailgaters. I see them driving all sorts of vehicles. When a multiple shunt happens it is noticeable that most HGV cabs are crushed and the driver suffers broken legs. Maybe a little more distance from the vehicle in front would have helped?

Then if all these incidents didn't happen we wouldn't enjoy the swanneckers who then bash up their vehicles. LOL.

Cheers

Alan

 

[ShadySadie]

It seems that Judge g has a little trouble doing reading and understanding together.

May be I can clear it up for you g, if you read my opening post I mentioned the main incident and also that 4 or 5 others played the same truck overtaking game, no where near as bad as our main outbound experience of TWENTY TWO miles.

My post was aimed re somebody addressing the problem of SOME HGV drivers playing silly pointless games with 40 tonne weaponry.

I've been out on Motorways this afternoon g, taking note of your Lorry Driver / Truckers embassador position my same companion from yesterday and I both saw plenty of trucks travelling far to closely together on the M4 and M5.

I've never been appointed to judge or make any driving practices or habits safe but governments and safety organsisations around the world do, I may be wrong sometimes but they all can'r be wrong.

g may only associate tailgating with car drivers, my company car drivers myself and family and plenty of others associate it with a lot of driver groups. The problem being cars tail gating can lead to serious and fatal accidents and injury.

With lorrys and coaches it is more likely that somebody gets steam rollered flat or crushed.

I'm not bothered about what you think g, my post was about bad driving and lack of thought for ALL road users.

With your attitude here g I hope not to meet you on the road, I guess you would also turn anyway you can to be awkward and difficult whilst driving as well.

But have a Happy Christmas, Santa may bring you bucket full of due consideration and understanding in case you ever decide that you need it.

My family and I are having a car and vehicle free Christmas.

Until 2009, Sadie x

 

[trucker]

I havent read all the replys but as the name sugests Im a trucker.

In all walks of life ther are the good guys and the bad guys, people only comment about the bad guys.

What about all the caravanners who insist on going 40 on a single carageway road with a 2 mile queue behind,

what about the white van man cutting up everyboby he comes across.

what about the stupid car drivers doing 50 on a moterway making the hgv driver overtake and then noticing a lorry is trying to overtake and speeds up not just once but 3/4 times.

what about the stupid car drivers who dont know we have 3 lanes on most motorways, stays in lane 2 so hgv got to slow right down before overtaking said car doing 50 or a slow moving truck.

Find someone else to pick on Shady Sadie, If it wasnt for us crap hgv drivers you wouldnt have anything to buy in the shops no caravan no car and so on and on and on.

 

[Barkas]

I take it none of you have tried to keep to the work schedule of your employer whilst driving an artic under the constraints of drivers hour's regulations and road speed limiters. Most LGV drivers know there's a queue of Eastern Europeans just waiting to do the job if they don't.

Quite correct chrisbee, A LGV driving mate of mine was sacked for not doing his delivery round within the specified time limit set by his employer. He successfully sued his ex employer after driving a lawyer around the delivery route in a car at appropriate LGV speed limits, which he proved left him only 6 minutes to make 32 drop-offs. After the court case the Traffic Commissioners dropped into the companies drivers records office and after an investigation, revoked the companies operators licence for 6 months for encouraging tachograph offencces and intimidating their drivers......its a nice world out there

 

[Barkas]

Quite right Trucker. There is probably, somewhere on the internet, a forum regarding cars and the pleasures of owning and driving them, and I suspect its full of remarks about inconsiderate and idiotic caravan drivers making all sorts of illegal maneouvers in the fast lane.

 

[Guest]

I just love this site, best case of internet "ROFL" for ages.

Stone Henge,Pyramids, Eiffel Tower, Machu Pichu, SS Great Britain and other of Brunel's wonders along with Walt Raleigh and the growth and popularity of Smokes and Spuds only came by way of HGV's and Truckers eh!

Like the world will end or grind to a halt if all truck drivers were annialated by roadsidegreasyspoonitits plague.

I did bother to read the thread, some good points SS. I also noted that there were some positive points made about truckers and concern for all road users.

What came first, chicken or egg, business or trucker.

No businesses in the first place! No need for truckers!

God only knows where the "knights of the road label" ever came from, if they want to be a considered as serious professionals and a main supply artery for the continuing survival of society they should act and respond to criticism on the road with good driving.

Cars may be a lethal weapons and white vans un/guided missiles. Articulated HGV's are weapons of mass destruction in direct comparison.

Not before time that somebody spoke out, stood up to truckers and gave them something to think about. As "true" professionals' they should respond by cleaning up their activities on the road.

Season's Greet's

 

[Steve L]

The Knights of the road title came from the pree 70's era where you would often find a lorry driver stopping to help a fellow motorist who had broken down.

I'm afraid today in this rat race of got to get there and all those big brother trackers being fitted to lorries and vans (yep I've got one on my renault traffic), the management are not only driving for you from their desks but also watching your every move.

As for lorries taking miles to overtake, I can empathise with both sides here. The driver has to meet targets set by his/her transport manager and if they are not met disciplinary's will ensue. But on the other hand it does not excuse bad driving when it is blatently obvious that you will not be able to overtake at a sensible pace.

Now to add a further comment!!!!!!!!

Will all you drivers out there please take note.

Cars hogging the center lanes or even the outside lane, when there is no traffic in the nearside lane are just as annoying and in fact far more dangerous than a slow lorry overtaking manouver.

People following a lane hogger often loose patientce and commit a traffic offence by under taking. In other words going past the lane hog on his left side.

If you are following a berk in the outside lane in this situation, what ever makes you think that he is using his left mirror at all when he is oblivious to you directly behind him!!

If everyone took 2 seconds to think and consider the others on the roads, then the world would be so much happier.

Steve L.

 

[Steve L]

The Knights of the road title came from the pree 70's era where you would often find a lorry driver stopping to help a fellow motorist who had broken down.

I'm afraid today in this rat race of got to get there and all those big brother trackers being fitted to lorries and vans (yep I've got one on my renault traffic), the management are not only driving for you from their desks but also watching your every move.

As for lorries taking miles to overtake, I can empathise with both sides here. The driver has to meet targets set by his/her transport manager and if they are not met disciplinary's will ensue. But on the other hand it does not excuse bad driving when it is blatently obvious that you will not be able to overtake at a sensible pace.

Now to add a further comment!!!!!!!!

Will all you drivers out there please take note.

Cars hogging the center lanes or even the outside lane, when there is no traffic in the nearside lane are just as annoying and in fact far more dangerous than a slow lorry overtaking manouver.

People following a lane hogger often loose patientce and commit a traffic offence by under taking. In other words going past the lane hog on his left side.

If you are following a berk in the outside lane in this situation, what ever makes you think that he is using his left mirror at all when he is oblivious to you directly behind him!!

If everyone took 2 seconds to think and consider the others on the roads, then the world would be so much happier.

Steve L.

Whoops a bit full on there folks, but it had to be said.

Hope the mods take it as rant and not a full on offensive.

 

[emmerson2]

Before retiring I was a transport manager for a large national company, and before that a lorry driver(never, ever, a "trucker"), and I must the question, how much time difference does 1 or 2 mph make? Since retirement, I drove LGVs on agency work until two years ago when I got fed up of the selfish attitude of some of my fellow drivers. I could not understand the idiot trying to overtake with so little speed difference as to cause Sadie's problem then, and I still think it is utterly stupid now. Yes, lorry drivers have a difficult job to do, but making life difficult for everyone else doesn't help make their job better.

I'm not a mathematitian, but what would be the time time difference between a 100 mile journey at 55mph, and the same trip at 56mph?

 

[g_374369443]

sadie wrote. "I'm not bothered about what you think g, my post was about bad driving and lack of thought for ALL road users."

What utter tosh, had this been what you had actually wrote about in your original post,you would have had my total agreement,so please do not now try to turn the event around and make it out to be so.

Indeed the mere fact I pointed out the illegalities of the freelander towing and speeding in the outside lane,had you making comparisons with a fresh topic of lorries tail gating,and not as you now claim, "all road users" tail gating!.

Had your topic been about ALL forms of inconsiderate driving, then you would have made the point about the freelander being driven badly and inconsiderate! You merely pointed out that the driver was frustrated, so that's al right then if he then becomes a danger to other! You might want to read your original post again!

Indeed when I then pointed out that cars tailgate too!Again you made a point, of differentiating the dangers!

You even made a silly point of using FRENCH road laws to justify what you had said about the freelander,being safer in the outside lane, than two lorries side by side and swaying slightly. something that happens to many units with trailers including caravans,but we are in Britain! not France!

No you were definitely attacking HGV drivers and them alone,as they seemed to get in YOUR way" You turned what is after all inconsiderate driving into dangerous driving!

We already know there are plenty of idiots driving out there, no group of drivers are safe from them,and indeed you have dropped a few hints concerning not wanting to meet me on the road!

Pretty insulting stuff really from someone who often talks about speeding safely!and disregarding speeding laws, because you believe it OK!.

I also made a point of saying I did not believe your quote of a 22 mile side by side rolling road block solely because of two lorries!

On past experience,you would normally give a time and place,but on this occasion no such information has been given! wonder why!

So I will wish everybody a merry and safe Christmas too, and watch out for ALL the idiots out there, be safe

G