Leaking front window in my Xplore

[Grahamh]

Just driven from the lakes to Evesham in the rain. Front cushion all wet though due to leaking front window-it only leaks when we drive through rain. Was supposedly fixed last season for the same fault under warranty. I think it is because the large front window bows when driving. What should I do now? Van still under warranty but do I want it?

 

[Raywood]

Not sure of the cause but I have not seen the problem as one common on the web so yours might be a one off. The front is under far more pressure when you are towing and will show up more than at other times. I am afraid it is back to the dealer and a warning you expect it put right this time or you will be looking at your legal rights.

 

[Grahamh]

So, given that this fault was supposedly fixed last summer- but now is worse. How many times must I expect to have to allow them to fix it? Given that I shall have to wait for parts, be it a new window or a new front panel, and I shall effectively be without a van for that time and have to take the van back to them to both inspect the fault and then fix it, can I reject the van as not fit for purpose?

 

[Keefanmaxx]

I'm sure Prof will know the answer, but I'm guessing that you could reject the van as not fit for purpose, especially as it's already been repaired.

I'm unsure whether this will fall under the sale and supply of goods act or the consumer credit act.

Prof???

 

[Grahamh]

The van was bought in 2014 so comes under the SOG act of 1979.

 

[Raywood]

I think it is now far too late to reject the van but you are still entitled to have the faulty window repaired although you have to know exactly what is causing it in the first place to do that. I have not seen other reports similar to yours so it is probably not the design or the window flexing but you cannot be sure.
If you are looking at your legal rights then if you are a member of either of the clubs they have legal helplines that should help you. Your house contents insurance may also provide one or any union membership and failing that the CAB will advise.

 

[Grahamh]

Been looking at the van this morning. Tried flexing the window whilst shmbo looked at it from the inside. Opened the window to see if I could see any defects/distortion of the window/frame. What is apparent is the seal does not touch the window over a distance of some 3/4 M across the top of the window as it does all round the sides and bottom. Now the dealer changed the seal and reseated the window last summer when we had exactly the same problem ( but the leak is now far worse). I realise that the van is now over 3 years old but the likely scenario is that I shall again lose most of the rest of this season whilst waiitng for parts ( if Elddis accept the claim). The dealer is very busy handing over new vans so declined my suggestion that I take it over today- can't even look at it before the end of next week. I have a van that I cannot use, they have attempted a repair once already and I don't have any confidence that they will fix it this time.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm sure Prof will know the answer, but I'm guessing that you could reject the van as not fit for purpose, especially as it's already been repaired.

I'm unsure whether this will fall under the sale and supply of goods act or the consumer credit act.

Prof???

Hi.

As Grahamh points out this matter would fall under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, and not the later Consumer rights act 2015. However I suspect in this case the action that might ensue would be very similar under either act.

In this case if you wanted to pursue this under SoGA, you would have to be able to convince a court there is a fault in the design or construction of the caravan, and that the fault was present at the time of purchase.

Ironically the fact the caravan has been repaired once under the manufacturers guarantee could work in your favour, as the manufacture must have accepted the fault existed to have allowed a repair to take place. This is almost as good as an expert witness.

The other factor that strengthens that argument is the apparent fact the problem has reoccurred despite the manufacture having tried a repair.

These two aspects strongly point to either inadequate design or poor workmanship, on both the original ex factory products and further in the performance of the repair which has obviously failed too.

Assuming a court accepted the argument and awarded the case to the plaintiff, the remedy may be a refund, but it would not be the full price paid but more likely the current market value of an undamaged model, becasue you have had some value from the caravan.

Whilst SoGA can only be applied to the seller of the goods, there is the question of the failed repair carried out by the manufacture, which was carried out under a separate contract, Its possible the manufacturers guarantee is also subject to the rigours of SoGA or Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

I suggest you seek advice from either the CAB, a solicitor or possibly your caravan insurer under their legal support.

Section 75 of consumer credit act would only apply if you used a finance arrangement to pay for some or all the caravan. the creditor is jointly responsible for the goods.

 

[Grahamh]

Well the dealer asked me to take the van in last Saturday and said it was now his priority to fix. Called me up yesterday and said 'all done'. New window fitted from stock - fits a lot better, no more gap at the top. It seems that the old window was warped/distorted. Also changed the top locker doors which had started to delaminate. Elddis have changed the design of the door so, hopefully the problem wont recur. Now planning next trip.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Well the dealer asked me to take the van in last Saturday and said it was now his priority to fix. Called me up yesterday and said 'all done'. New window fitted from stock - fits a lot better, no more gap at the top. It seems that the old window was warped/distorted. Also changed the top locker doors which had started to delaminate. Elddis have changed the design of the door so, hopefully the problem wont recur. Now planning next trip.

Hello Graham,
That good to hear.
It would be interesting to know if you looked up teh SoGA and did you use any of its powers to get the dealer to respond?

 

[Grahamh]

Thanks Prof
Yes I read up on the SOG1979. I also contacted the legal line with C&CC which is RAC.
As you said I believe that I had a case under the SOG in that the dealer had attempted a repair under warranty (authorised by Elddis) and that attempt had failed (in fact it had got worse). The legal help line advised that I should let the dealer attempt the repair again however which I was surprised about. In the event I contacted the dealer by email and expressed disappointment at the lack of any priority in dealing with the issue and that I was about to lose the rest of the season with a caravan that I could not tow in the rain. His response was very quick and positive, I took the van in the following morning. On check in a time of two weeks was mentioned which I expressed disappointment at. I put forth the view that failure to fix it this time would be the end of the rope so to speak and I looked forward to their proposals at a replacement/refund. On Wed this week (we had been away for a couple of days) I enquired by email of the progress. Less than an hour later I got a phone call saying that the van was ready for collection - all fixed. I picked it up Thursday; the window has been replaced from stock, the overhead cabinet doors also from stock. The seal is now tight all around the inside of the window so am hopeful that the problem has been solved. I suppose I could have pushed harder/rejected the van but...
we have always had a very good relationship with the dealer,(we were their first customer after start up). At the moment with a wedding at the end of the month and moving house in a month or two I cannot afford to step up to a new van anyway and it seems a much better idea to keep the good relationship with the dealer. I still think I bought a Friday Lemon but it seems as though they are in the majority. The industry as a whole has a huge quality problem. I just hope that now that Hymer have taken over Elddis things may improve in their case. I just hope that when I take the van out in the rain I don't get any water in through the new window.
Thanks again for all advice received.

 

[AnnL]

I also have water coming in front window on my Elddis xplore 402 when travelling in rain and also sometimes when static. Dealer replaced rubber seal and fitted another hinge in the centre. Although dealer has attempted to solve problem water came in again when recently travelling in light rain. Must be a design fault.
Is there a solution to the problem that will permanently work? Fed up with water coming in. Did not buy the van to have this problem.
Had to have back panel changed last year because of a design fault as all 4 corners cracked.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure there is a simple fix to this. I an afraid shouting at the dealer and threatening legal action against the dealer is needed if no action taken by them. I assume you have read through the full thread and have some idea s to what to do but it would help if you can post the age of the caravan and when you purchased it.
If it is being bought on HP or you paid the deposit or any part of the purchase price on a credit card you will also have rights against the finance company which might be worth exploring. If you feel you are getting nowhere with the dealer make a claim against the finance company if there is one. If you need help just post what you want to know on Here.

 

[AnnL]

Thanks for reply. I did read the thread through and it was helpful. I bought the van 17.2.2016 when it was 18 months old. It first leaked a few months later and dealer fitted new rubber seal. It then happened again the next year and dealer added another hinge but this has not stopped the problem. I used a credit card to pay part of it so I could go to them if not successful in getting problem sorted.
I have asked dealer to contact Elddis regarding the problem but I wonder whether a new screen would help. The dealer has been good in trying to solve the problem but a permanent fix would be preferable, whatever that is. It is good to know that I am not the only person with same problem as it strengthens my case.
Thank you for replying.

 

[Grahamh]

If your xplore is the same as mine - with a single large window at the front, then it's likely that it is warped as mine was. Mine only leaked when towing in the rain. What convinced the dealer of this with mine was me sending him a video of me sliding a sheet of paper up between the window and seal. At the centre top of the window the paper slid easily in but at the edges it would not. Whilst towing you could see the window bow inwards in the middle viewed in the rear view mirror. After the window was changed it no longer leaks. rear panel cracked at top corners, rear panel replaced - cracked again 9 months later, both top corners.

 

[AnnL]

My Xplore is the same as yours with large front window.
Mine leaked once when stationery but I think window had not gone back into place after towing. When rain stopped I opened the window and wiped seal in case any leaves were trapped. It was clear and did not leak again on that trip. Since having extra hinge fitted the water now lands on the drawer unit under the window.
So far our replacement back panel has not cracked again and it has been fitted over a year.

 

[Grahamh]

Sounds just like ours. before the dealer changed the window we always had to tow with a towel on the drawer unit. Dealer also had to change the top of the drawer unit as it had warped. Ours is 2014 530. To date we have had the following changed.
front window seals, front window. Offside front window seal. front centre drawer unit top, cupboard doors over cooker/sink (twice), rear panel -cracked offside top corner. Charger unit failed twice, replaced first time under warranty - second time I replaced with uprated unit from Apuljack. On delivery we rejected the wall between the lounge and bathroom because it was warped and the wall was replaced. I now find the rear panel cracked again, this time at both top corners less than 9 months after it was replaced. Awaiting Elddis/dealer action/proposal.