Hi all, at level crossings should you phone the operator to let you cross with your outfit or continue as normal because it says "large vehicles or slow vehicles park here and phone crossing" this question just confused me so I need some opinions.
Level crossings should you phone the operator
- Thread starter AbbeyOwner
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My OH, who worked in Railway Safety for many years, says 'Yes' definitely. Many people don't, and those people would say 'don't bother' - but strictly speaking the answer is Yes!
I thought so because i just crossed as normal but it on the other side of the crossing it says park here is the sign placed correctly? so next time i will call the operator thanks.Val A. said:
Is an outfit really a large or slow vehicle as normally understood. Do buses, trucks etc stop and ring,I suggest not. Thinking of the crossing near Crossways in Dorset with at least 3 large sites nearby there would be chaos around 11-12 as outfits were leaving and arriving let alone the normal commercial vehicles on the road. Perhaps OP is just referring to unmanned crossings without barriers.
Are full-sized articulated lorries classed as 'large or slow' for railway crossings? I don't think so, and a car/caravan unit is both shorter and quicker than an artic.
The advice of Network Rail is in the link below for a user worked crossing with telephoneDriving
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/level-crossings/types-of-level-crossing/user-worked-crossings/
It's not a case of opinions, your life & others are at risk if you don't follow the instructions at each & every crossing......
http://www.fentons.co.uk/newsroom/latest-news/rail-crash-raises-more-concerns-over-unmanned-crossings/
- Stop, look both ways and listen to make sure a train is not coming. If a train is coming wait in a safe place.
- You must use the telephone to get permission to cross if crossing with vehicles or animals.
- When you have permission to cross, open the gates on both sides of the railway.
- Cross quickly and stay alert, do not stop on the crossing.
- Close both gates after crossing, never leave them open.
- You must call railway staff back after crossing if they asked you to.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/level-crossings/types-of-level-crossing/user-worked-crossings/
It's not a case of opinions, your life & others are at risk if you don't follow the instructions at each & every crossing......
http://www.fentons.co.uk/newsroom/latest-news/rail-crash-raises-more-concerns-over-unmanned-crossings/
The following link shows what are classed as large or slow vehicles. Google UKmotorists level crossings and you will see the sizes, weights and speeds of vehicles that should phone. www. UKmotorists. Com/ level crossings
…...if you take a closer look at the signs at automatic crossings you will see that the term 'large' and 'slow' are clearly and strictly defined.
No car and caravan outfit fits the criteria unless it can only cross at less than 5mph for some reason.
The driver of a caravan outfit is not required to phone unless this reason applies.
No car and caravan outfit fits the criteria unless it can only cross at less than 5mph for some reason.
The driver of a caravan outfit is not required to phone unless this reason applies.
My outfit measures 40 feet long so if i was not sure i would call, the last thing you want is to rush over a crossing as most are anything but level.
hi all,
as John McEnroe used to say "you can't be serious" well you can't can you. have I missed something is it April the first.
stop in the layby and ring to see if it's safe to cross just because your towing a VAN, strewth a car towing a van is neither slow moving or large in the contetext of what network rail "formerly known as "LNER or GWR" when the system was designed for steam tractors and horses and carts,
if you are towing a tower crane on a trailer thats 30mtrs long fair enough but a caravan NO.
The advice of Network Rail is in the link below for a user worked crossing with telephone. this is signifacant because it is not a usual crossing as the user has to open and close the gates, how many crossing of this type are still in use not many and when approached the gates will allways be shut.
a normal crossings either manned or automatic will not shut while you are crossing unless you ignore the lights.
I cannot believe anyone is considering stopping at every crossing to ask if it is safe to cross, "the mind boggles".
as John McEnroe used to say "you can't be serious" well you can't can you. have I missed something is it April the first.
stop in the layby and ring to see if it's safe to cross just because your towing a VAN, strewth a car towing a van is neither slow moving or large in the contetext of what network rail "formerly known as "LNER or GWR" when the system was designed for steam tractors and horses and carts,
if you are towing a tower crane on a trailer thats 30mtrs long fair enough but a caravan NO.
The advice of Network Rail is in the link below for a user worked crossing with telephone. this is signifacant because it is not a usual crossing as the user has to open and close the gates, how many crossing of this type are still in use not many and when approached the gates will allways be shut.
a normal crossings either manned or automatic will not shut while you are crossing unless you ignore the lights.
I cannot believe anyone is considering stopping at every crossing to ask if it is safe to cross, "the mind boggles".
Taken from the link that Otherclive provided, here are the signs and definition of vehicles required to stop at level crossings.
It can be seen that a car and caravan is not classed as a large vehilce, and if it is only cpable of 5mph, then the outfit is not a good match and it shouldn't be on the roads anyway.
I am not suggesting throwing caution to the wind, but all normal cars and caravans should be able to cross all UK railway crossings without danger of grounding.
When it comes to manually operated crossing without a gateman, then if you have any doubts, then safety must come first, and you should use the phone. Better an ear bashing form the signalman or who ever answeres the phone for disturbing them unecesarily , than to have a tradegy.
But when was the last time you actually came across an unmanned manual crossing?? In over 40 years of motoring I can recall only one, and that was on a preserved railway line where the engines had to stop to allow the enginer to alight and physically change teh gates by hand to allow them through. At all other times they were set for road traffic.
It can be seen that a car and caravan is not classed as a large vehilce, and if it is only cpable of 5mph, then the outfit is not a good match and it shouldn't be on the roads anyway.
I am not suggesting throwing caution to the wind, but all normal cars and caravans should be able to cross all UK railway crossings without danger of grounding.
When it comes to manually operated crossing without a gateman, then if you have any doubts, then safety must come first, and you should use the phone. Better an ear bashing form the signalman or who ever answeres the phone for disturbing them unecesarily , than to have a tradegy.
But when was the last time you actually came across an unmanned manual crossing?? In over 40 years of motoring I can recall only one, and that was on a preserved railway line where the engines had to stop to allow the enginer to alight and physically change teh gates by hand to allow them through. At all other times they were set for road traffic.
hi John, there is one in Eggbrough north yorkshire, BUT it is on the entrance to a fishing lake down a "B road" you have to phone it is mandatory and the gates are allways set for the railway. incidentaly I think there is an electronic lock on them that he releases when you phone"Prof John L said:
but thanks for making it clearer for those who dont know???
Prof John L said:
........all such crossings always have the gates shut to road traffic.
It is mandatory to phone the signalman before crossing the railway with any vehicle at such a crossing.
You are always talking to the signalman who is in complete charge of that section of the railway track.
Hello gaffer,
You quote my post and then add
It obviously depends on the type of track involved and how much use it gets.
You quote my post and then add
I'm not trying to nit pick, but that clearly is not the case, In some cases as in the example I gave the gates were normally closed to the trains and normally open to traffic.Gafferbill said:
It obviously depends on the type of track involved and how much use it gets.
Different crossings - different sets of rules - but to be honest, what harm does a phone call do - and it may just save your life! These notices ARE there for a reason! Network Rail is very conscious of safety - unfortunately many road users aren't.
Prof ........your example was of a manned crossing with a gateman!
The gateman was a member of the train crew!
All you as a motorist had to do was stop to allow the gates to be closed.
The advice you gave and I quoted was for an unmanned crossing without a gateman, for which there are specific rules which I attempted to make clear.
Sprocket has also posted these rules in red earlier on in this topic.
The gateman was a member of the train crew!
All you as a motorist had to do was stop to allow the gates to be closed.
The advice you gave and I quoted was for an unmanned crossing without a gateman, for which there are specific rules which I attempted to make clear.
Sprocket has also posted these rules in red earlier on in this topic.
hi all,Val A. said:
sorry VAL but different crossings have the same rules, the telephones are there for specific road traffic of which caravans are NOT included.
Gaffer bill is quite right the only exeption is for unmanned manual gate crossings of which there are very few left I know of only one,
these ARE always set for rail traffic and you must ring for permission to cross.
to be fair to John he did state In over 40 years of motoring I can recall only one, and that was on a preserved railway line where the engines had to stop to allow the enginer to alight and physically change teh gates by hand to allow them through. At all other times they were set for road traffic." the key here is preserved railway where the number of trains passing over the crossing would be very few, so it would make sense to have the gates set for road traffic I also suspect that in this case there would NOT be a phone anyway as the train engineer has to close the gates manualy so yes Gafferbill it is actually a manned crossing when a train arrives.
Thanks Colin........yes the banter on this topic for me is all about getting it right for the OP and anyone bothering to read this.
Why?......well if I post Sproket's link in full .
.....................................................................................................................................
2010 incident
The safety of unmanned level crossings has been called into question again following an incident which left one person in a critical condition.
The front carriage of the National Express East Anglia service crashed into a sewage tanker on an unmanned rail crossing at Little Cornard, near Sudbury in Suffolk, on the evening of 17 August. More than 20 people - all of whom were on the train - were injured in the collision.
The driver of the 1731 Sudbury to Marks Tey service is being treated at Colchester General Hospital for injuries including a suspected fractured vertebra. The driver of the lorry, which was destroyed when the train ploughed into it, has been arrested on suspicion of a number of railway safety offences.
Nigel Smith, a lawyer specialising in claims arising from rail incidents, said the investigation would be thorough and lengthy, and would likely examine the safety of the unmanned crossing.
"The sewage tanker was hit with so much force that it was totally ripped apart in the crash, spilling its slurry contents everywhere," said Nigel, "It's a miracle that the train did not turn over when it derailed, otherwise the consequences could have been a lot worse."
Nigel explained that the crossing where the collision occurred is what is known as a user-worked crossing. "The crossing has manually-operated gates, and a telephone which connects to the signal operator," he said. "Reports suggest that in this incident, the Network Rail signaller did not receive a call from the user of the crossing asking for the gates to be opened."
"Although this could have been a much more serious incident, questions will still be asked as to how the train was derailed, and why the sewage truck was in a position to be hit by the train in the first place," said Nigel. "The people who were subjected to this ordeal will rightly demand to know what caused it."
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Source - Sky News, BBC News
Why?......well if I post Sproket's link in full .
.....................................................................................................................................
2010 incident
The safety of unmanned level crossings has been called into question again following an incident which left one person in a critical condition.
The front carriage of the National Express East Anglia service crashed into a sewage tanker on an unmanned rail crossing at Little Cornard, near Sudbury in Suffolk, on the evening of 17 August. More than 20 people - all of whom were on the train - were injured in the collision.
The driver of the 1731 Sudbury to Marks Tey service is being treated at Colchester General Hospital for injuries including a suspected fractured vertebra. The driver of the lorry, which was destroyed when the train ploughed into it, has been arrested on suspicion of a number of railway safety offences.
Nigel Smith, a lawyer specialising in claims arising from rail incidents, said the investigation would be thorough and lengthy, and would likely examine the safety of the unmanned crossing.
"The sewage tanker was hit with so much force that it was totally ripped apart in the crash, spilling its slurry contents everywhere," said Nigel, "It's a miracle that the train did not turn over when it derailed, otherwise the consequences could have been a lot worse."
Nigel explained that the crossing where the collision occurred is what is known as a user-worked crossing. "The crossing has manually-operated gates, and a telephone which connects to the signal operator," he said. "Reports suggest that in this incident, the Network Rail signaller did not receive a call from the user of the crossing asking for the gates to be opened."
"Although this could have been a much more serious incident, questions will still be asked as to how the train was derailed, and why the sewage truck was in a position to be hit by the train in the first place," said Nigel. "The people who were subjected to this ordeal will rightly demand to know what caused it."
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Source - Sky News, BBC News
John has the answer.
I certainly wouldn't fancey pitching a 62ft by 45 ton rig on grass or taking a week to drive to the site at 5mph
However should twerp nav of mis-lead you down to an un-barriered crossing, it would be prudent to phone for advice, if the phone exist's and the local "hill billy's" haven't wrecked it. Failing that you could post a lookout (responssible adult).
The best approach to level crossing traversing is to allow enough room to develope beyond the crossing before you take your outfit across.
Here in Leominster the A44 route into town for those heading to Wales has a level crossing, and I have seen some "berks" who drive nose to tail over the crossing. Here the trains run every 30 mins which is quite frequent for us cider apple crushers.
steveinleo said:
........the only "un-barriered crossing" I have seen in this country is for pedestrians only.
Its time to pack in.Its a caravan,not a 150 tonne low loader.Keep your witts about you and drive across.When the barriers come down a train is at least 3 miles away,unless of course a station is next to the crossing in which case the train would be stopped and the barrier would be down anyway.If the barrier is up drive across at normal speed,dont even slow down to take a look because at that point there is little you could do if a train was to come which is not going to happen anyway no matter what anybody says.In the time it takes to have a good look a vehicle would be accross the crossing to safety.
There are plenty of rail crossings in the back lanes of Wales and Scotland where there are no automatic barriers or gates. Ok, they might be on very remote back lanes, but the caravanner's quest for the big outdoors and cheaper sites might just lead along these lanes.
Here in Herefordshire two years ago a manned barrier crossing malfunctioned (either by automation or human error) and this lead to a local lady being killed when a train hit her car while she drove across the crossing. These tragic accidents are thankfully very rare but never the less they are unimaginably awfull for the relatives to have to endure.
Even driving across our automated crossing in Leominster I always look left and right as I cross, just as a precaution. I've been at that crossing when the barriers have malfunctioned by coming down and then straight back up followed by coming down and staying in safe mode as such. IE stopping traffic crossing. Quite often we have weekend works there and frequently see rail track staff manually operating the crossing.
Here in Herefordshire two years ago a manned barrier crossing malfunctioned (either by automation or human error) and this lead to a local lady being killed when a train hit her car while she drove across the crossing. These tragic accidents are thankfully very rare but never the less they are unimaginably awfull for the relatives to have to endure.
Even driving across our automated crossing in Leominster I always look left and right as I cross, just as a precaution. I've been at that crossing when the barriers have malfunctioned by coming down and then straight back up followed by coming down and staying in safe mode as such. IE stopping traffic crossing. Quite often we have weekend works there and frequently see rail track staff manually operating the crossing.
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Another newbie needing towing weight advice sorry!
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