Light at the end of the tunnel?

[Buckman]

About time and maybe other brands will do similar. On an Elddis Group this was posted yesterday. It is from a dealer regarding a visit to the Elddis factory.

“Following a recent site visit up to Elddis, we were very impressed with the new Pre delivery inspection building and the current modifications of the factory that the Erwin Hymer group are installing at a massive cost.
What few vans we have had so far, the quality has been very apparent and that this investment is paying dividends. The problem is that these changes are having a knock-on effect with deliveries.
As with change there comes teething problems and this is affecting the number of caravans we have had arrive, along with all the existing worldwide problems, but I would say there is now light at the end of the tunnel, and we are receiving new caravans on a more regular basis”.

 

[otherclive]

A PDI will only sort out fit and finish and may include equipment function, but that’s debatable. It will not find susceptibility to cracks in bodywork or water ingress which seems to have affected even their recent products. Time will tell.

 

[Buckman]

A PDI will only sort out fit and finish and may include equipment function, but that’s debatable. It will not find susceptibility to cracks in bodywork or water ingress which seems to have affected even their recent products. Time will tell.

I think that the issue of cracks in panels was resolved with the 2021 caravans forward, but as you say time will tell however at least Hymer or Thor Industries are making the attempt to improve the quality of their products prior to leaving the factory.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Quality Control should be applied at all stages of design, development and manufacture. In fact in all areas of running a business. It costs far more to put things right after the item has been shipped.

I include design and development because to me these practises still appear to be in the dark ages in respect of caravans. Too much attention is paid to making the glossy brochures look good and not enough time devoted to the practicalities of using a caravan. I'm still seeing mistakes in our current 2020 van that were apparent 20 years ago - possibly longer.

Many years back I had a visit to a manufacturers establishment, essentially because of the numerous issues I and others were having. Lots of good words and spin and I got a nice umbrella - plus I got all my problems fixed. Sadly some of those same issues are still appearing today in various vans.

 

[Raywood]

Time will tell if they have improved the product. It looks a step forward though.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Quality Control should be applied at all stages of design, development and manufacture. In fact in all areas of running a business. It costs far more to put things right after the item has been shipped.

I include design and development because to me these practises still appear to be in the dark ages in respect of caravans. Too much attention is paid to making the glossy brochures look good and not enough time devoted to the practicalities of using a caravan. I'm still seeing mistakes in our current 2020 van that were apparent 20 years ago - possibly longer.

Many years back I had a visit to a manufacturers establishment, essentially because of the numerous issues I and others were having. Lots of good words and spin and I got a nice umbrella - plus I got all my problems fixed. Sadly some of those same issues are still appearing today in various vans.

Absolutely!!!!!

Relying only on Final inspection quality control is far too late. You can't inspect quality into a finished product or service.

Every person in a business needs to be aware of how their actions (or failure to act) can affect the quality of services or product within the organisation, and their obligation to the next person or stage of production or service and to end user.

Effective Quality management and responsibility has to be an ethos upheld by everyone involved in an organisation. It has to be fully supported by senior management and driven down through every stage of an organisations regardless of what the organisations purpose is about.

If it's a design and manufacturing organisation, products have to be designed with Quality as one of the prerequisites, Production facilities and processes need to be arranged to minimise the risk of non conformances arising of being passed to the next stage. Each person needs to take responsibility for the quality of their workmanship, and the outcome of what they do.

We don't want failures, but inevitably humans are fallible, and from time to time a failure will arise, The best organisations use failure reports to identify opportunities for improvement to prevent it from happening again. They don't just sit back and do nothing. or worse try to bury the information hoping it will disappear.

Every business that I have helped with implementing such procedures may have had concerns initially at the apparent increase in time and cost to develop a product, but after a short while the improved productivity and much reduced test failures, factory waste, rework and warranty claims soon more than redressed the balance.

The improved perception and reality of quality and customer satisfaction is a win win for everyone apart from the size of aftersales team.

 

[Buckman]

Back in the eighties and nineties wasn't there a process called ISO 9001 system which monitored quality during the process. It seems to have dropped out of flavour with manufacturing organisations?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Back in the eighties and nineties wasn't there a process called ISO 9001 system which monitored quality during the process. It seems to have dropped out of flavour with manufacturing organisations?

Quality Control systems basically aim to enable organisations to maintain a consistent approach to all aspects of their operations. Historically they were first formalised by the American Military after they found incompatibilities between ammunition supposedly of the same calibre supplied by different manufacturers.

The same principles for the need for consistency of product was taken up by most of the industrialised world but different countries developed their own standards, which meant there was still some time difference in the same basic products ( for example screws, nuts and bolts) which as international trade opened up could become a problem.

Back in the 1970s the UK had BS5750 Whilst it set some important points it could be paraphrased as "Say what you do and Do what you say" This meant everything you did needed to be recorded and became the bible on how you performed that process. This was great for improving consistency of operation, but the way it was implemented meant that if you needed to change anything such as to improve it, it was nightmare to change all the documentation the standard required. Another tongue in cheek paraphrase was "It may be rubbish, but at least its consistent rubbish"

Google says "ISO 9001 was first published in 1987 by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO), an international agency composed of the national standards bodies of more than 160 countries. The current version of ISO 9001 was released in September 2015."

Accreditation to ISO 9001 requires organisations to carry out a number of key functions that are considered to be essential for a world class organisation to remain compliant. These are cross functional requirements, and whilst ISO 9001 is not descriptive about how these tasks are to be performed, they do have to show they are effective and conform to the spirit of the standard.

 

[Lutz]

Back in the eighties and nineties wasn't there a process called ISO 9001 system which monitored quality during the process. It seems to have dropped out of flavour with manufacturing organisations?

Quality control only serves to check whether existing quality standards are fulfilled. It doesn't raise the those standards, though. If the standards are inadequate, ISO 9001 does nothing to improve them.

 

[Jcloughie]

In my experience, ISO 9001, like Investors in people. turned into paper exercises with little or no true benefit to people, organisations or product. But well-meaning.

IIP in our organisation, an organisation that very much invested in its employees. wasted so much time we abandoned it with no detriment.

Possibly it might work in less caring organisations.

For Elddis to develop a PDI department does not mean they are necessarily neglecting quality control. But it might! It might also be there as a sales/advertising gimmick and to please dealers. (I am no cynic).


John

 

[otherclive]

Quality control only serves to check whether existing quality standards are fulfilled. It doesn't raise the those standards, though. If the standards are inadequate, ISO 9001 does nothing to improve them.

I was an assessor for the UK predecessor to ISO 9000 series , which was BS 5750. Quality Management Systems are different to Quality Control systems. If a company produces rubbish components then all a QMS system will ensure is that the company consistently continues to produce well documented rubbish components. But this ignores the fact that a properly managed QMS will investigate the root cause of defects in their products, and customer complaints too. So if managed properly this feedback loop should lead to product improvement.
For Royal Navy ship systems faulty components and systems would be reported from ships to their support base, MOD system project team and onwards to the supplying company. Regular audits would be taken to assess progress in seeking to identify the root cause of the defect, and the progress to develop improvement. This could be a engineering change, maintenance schedule change or just rewording in the system handbooks.

So properly implemented ISO 9000 does give scope for improvement.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
So properly implemented ISO 9000 does give scope for improvement.

The phrase is continual improvement, and for continued accreditation to ISO 9001 you have to show that it isn't just given lip service.

 

[otherclive]

The phrase is continual improvement, and for continued accreditation to ISO 9001 you have to show that it isn't just given lip service.

I am amazed that in the early hours of the morning you can be so alert that a single word omission is picked up. 😱 I wasn’t attempting to paraphrase ISO9001 or its predecessors just making the point that a properly instituted QMS can and should lead to improvement in product, process or procedure. Within ISO 9000 the Quality Management Principle QMP 5 is “ improvement” . Whereas ISO 9001 section 10 deals with “ continual improvement “ So the last sentence of my post was correct.

 

[Echodale]

About time and maybe other brands will do similar. On an Elddis Group this was posted yesterday. It is from a dealer regarding a visit to the Elddis factory.

“Following a recent site visit up to Elddis, we were very impressed with the new Pre delivery inspection building and the current modifications of the factory that the Erwin Hymer group are installing at a massive cost.
What few vans we have had so far, the quality has been very apparent and that this investment is paying dividends. The problem is that these changes are having a knock-on effect with deliveries.
As with change there comes teething problems and this is affecting the number of caravans we have had arrive, along with all the existing worldwide problems, but I would say there is now light at the end of the tunnel, and we are receiving new caravans on a more regular basis”.

Interesting my dealer sent me an email with the EXACT same wording, now we could be talking about the same dealer and it is a cut and paste job but the sceptic in me smells a rat.