Lithium battery charging

[Dustydog]

Which? Say I shouldn’t leave any of my Li-on appliances on charge overnight. We have been charging iPads , Dysons etc overnight in the caravan for years
Should I stop?
What about my EV mower, buggy bike?
Does this recommendation apply to EV cars?
Also most Lithium bikes etc are no longer allowed on UK trains.
Or is someone making up the rules as they go along?

 

[Mr Plodd]

I think the main "danger" with Li-on batteries is more the use of dodgy chargers from somewhere "to the east" of us that don't have any software to recognise when the batteries are fully charged, so they can  overheat

 

[Sam Vimes]

I think the main "danger" with Li-on batteries is more the use of dodgy chargers from somewhere "to the east" of us that don't have any software to recognise when the batteries are fully charged, so they can  overheat

Been there and done that and had batteries ignite. Still don't leave any form of lithium powered battery charging unattended.

 

[Challenger]

More than 95% of iPhones, AirPods, Macs and iPads are made in China.
In fact I would guess that a similar proportion of electronics come from somewhere "to the east" of us !

 

[Sam Vimes]

One of the issues I see with products from the Middle Kingdom is Quality Control and lack of enforcement of standards.

There are many western companies designing products only to have them made in the far east because it's cheaper. One would hope that once manufactured quality control would ensure, well a quality product. But does it, do they check their own products? QA costs and you can have a hard time convincing bean counters the value of a good QA system. It's not impossible but often they don't want to listen. Shareholders come first, customers last

If you're a nervous flyer, just think that the Airbus your currently trusting in has some parts made in China. So it can be done and you needn't worry.

To me the real problem with the Middle Kingdom is the number of companies ripping off designs, which typically results in lower quality with attendant risks. Also some Chinese home grown products just aren't up to standard. Cheap is the name of the game and there's a big market here for cheap.

Couple this with the fact that it's easy to print labels and documentation that certifies the product meets the relevant standards. But does anyone check.

I can just imagine that there are container loads of far eastern products at Amazon or with eBay sellers that are just shipped directly and never given a thought to whether or not they meet the Western Standards.

Rant over.

 

[otherclive]

Which? Say I shouldn’t leave any of my Li-on appliances on charge overnight. We have been charging iPads , Dysons etc overnight in the caravan for years
Should I stop?
What about my EV mower, buggy bike?
Does this recommendation apply to EV cars?
Also most Lithium bikes etc are no longer allowed on UK trains.
Or is someone making up the rules as they go along?

We turn off any chargers at night or if we are leaving the house. In the caravan we would charge overnight but not whilst out. Reason being in the caravan the alarm sensor was much nearer to the charging points and I felt that the alarm and us could respond more quickly than at home.

 

[otherclive]

One of the issues I see with products from the Middle Kingdom is Quality Control and lack of enforcement of standards.

There are many western companies designing products only to have them made in the far east because it's cheaper. One would hope that once manufactured quality control would ensure, well a quality product. But does it, do they check their own products? QA costs and you can have a hard time convincing bean counters the value of a good QA system. It's not impossible but often they don't want to listen. Shareholders come first, customers last

If you're a nervous flyer, just think that the Airbus your currently trusting in has some parts made in China. So it can be done and you needn't worry.

To me the real problem with the Middle Kingdom is the number of companies ripping off designs, which typically results in lower quality with attendant risks. Also some Chinese home grown products just aren't up to standard. Cheap is the name of the game and there's a big market here for cheap.

Couple this with the fact that it's easy to print labels and documentation that certifies the product meets the relevant standards. But does anyone check.

I can just imagine that there are container loads of far eastern products at Amazon or with eBay sellers that are just shipped directly and never given a thought to whether or not they meet the Western Standards.

Rant over.

Some Airbus 320 are made in China for the domestic market and they seem to do the job.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I did work for EADS/AIRBUS for a number of years which is how I found out about the Chinese content. No problems with it, hopefully, but it was hard to get European Engineers to work in China. Not for political reasons, just no one really fancied the idea.

 

[Sam Vimes]

To be fair I should state there are some very good Chinese Home Grown products in our market places. The phone I'm using now is just one example. I also have some power tools that are Chinese that work very well.

But I've had a number of products that are just not up to standard. Then again some European stuff has fallen short at times.

Dare I mention caravans😉

 

[ProfJohnL]

Unfortunately, the correct adherence to UK standards is not just a Chinese trait, though in recent years there has been a marked increase in non conforming product from them, probably due to the massive increase in business they have made, at low prices

It's really frustrating, because some products coming out of China are first class, more often than not designed and marketed by western businesses who do operate effective Quality Assurance, or Quality Control processes. But the real danger is the number of fake branded products, where corners have been cut, or fake approvals mark have been added. This devalues the approvals, and exposes customers to untold risks and problems.

 

[Ukdave2002]

I'm involved in supplying spares for pre-war cars, and we are increasing having them manufactured in China, the quality is excellent because we specify very precisely.
An example example we have Morris cylinder head studs manufactured in China, if we simply asked for 10mm studs 73mm long with an 15mm M10x1.5 thread on each end, they would be mild steel with lathe or die cut threads, they would stretch, the threads would strip, and everyone would complain about the rubbish Chinese quality.
In addition to the sizing, we specify EN16T or equivalent steel, rolled threads, 6H tolerance. And that's exactly what we get, actually better quality than the original manufacturers product.

 

[Guzzilazz]

I'm involved in supplying spares for pre-war cars, and we are increasing having them manufactured in China, the quality is excellent because we specify very precisely.
An example example we have Morris cylinder head studs manufactured in China, if we simply asked for 10mm studs 73mm long with an 15mm M10x1.5 thread on each end, they would be mild steel with lathe or die cut threads, they would stretch, the threads would strip, and everyone would complain about the rubbish Chinese quality.
In addition to the sizing, we specify EN16T or equivalent steel, rolled threads, 6H tolerance. And that's exactly what we get, actually better quality than the original manufacturers product.

Interesting, I have access to a 1950's BSA factory film, and one persons job was choosing a crankshaft, and then adding crankcase halves... AMazing to see usually 2 or 3 case sides are required to achieve what the person decided was a "good fit"... So much for British engineering!

 

[otherclive]

Interesting, I have access to a 1950's BSA factory film, and one persons job was choosing a crankshaft, and then adding crankcase halves... AMazing to see usually 2 or 3 case sides are required to achieve what the person decided was a "good fit"... So much for British engineering!

That’s why Japanese bikes rarely if ever leaked oil, as their crankcases were horizontal joints in the main. But in defence of British engineering I spent many an hour trying to achieve a perfect long lasting joint seal; kept me out of trouble. Then when I got my first Japanese bike I acquired more time to ride and enjoy it. 😀

 

[Dustydog]

That’s why Japanese bikes rarely if ever leaked oil, as their crankcases were horizontal joints in the main. But in defence of British engineering I spent many an hour trying to achieve a perfect long lasting joint seal; kept me out of trouble. Then when I got my first Japanese bike I acquired more time to ride and enjoy it.

My old BSA C15 oiled my riding boots daily. I tried everything, all the different coloured Hermatites, even sanding the mating surfaces on emery on top of plate glass didn’t work!
My first Honda CB 250 never dripped a drop👏

 

[ProfJohnL]

Undoubtedly there are some good Chinese manufacturers and if you engage the a good one then you will get what you ask for, but you will only know that if you either quality check the products they produce as you receive them, or by monitoring your own customers warranty claims.

A old colleague of mine had worked for major international oem supplier to the car manufacturers. They were researching possible manufacturers for a new product, and they approached a Chinese company with the specification that included information about the required maximum non conformance rate. (0.3%). A sample preproduction run was set up, and a pallet of goods arrived in the UK for inspection. the pallet contained 997 perfect items and a parcel of 3 wrapped separately. The documents identified 1000 units with 0.3% rejects(wrapped separately)

The moral "Be careful of what you ask for". and "Understand your supplier"

It's one thing for a business to evaluate and engage with Chinese manufacturers, most members of the public can only use the likes of Amazon, Etsi, Ali Express, or Ebay, where its not possible to make meaningful evaluations of Chinese suppliers before ordering, and its virtually pot luck if you get genuine or fake goods.

 

[Dustydog]

I remember as a kid some of the toys we had were stamped “ Made in Hong Kong”. Absolutely rubbish🤪🤪. U.K. Dave’s comments regarding Steel quality is relevant. How do we know the Chinese steel meets the spec requirements? Steel making may be seen as a black art but in fact it is a highly man skilled and computer driven process .

 

[Buckman]

I remember as a kid some of the toys we had were stamped “ Made in Hong Kong”. Absolutely rubbish🤪🤪. U.K. Dave’s comments regarding Steel quality is relevant. How do we know the Chinese steel meets the spec requirements? Steel making may be seen as a black art but in fact it is a highly man skilled and computer driven process .

An acquaintance of ours was the manager of a very large packaging company. To manufacture and print off the boxes etc some of the machinery had huge rollers that had to be precision engineered. A close friend of ours had the contract for the refurbishment of the rollers.

They had to export the rollers from South Africa to Hong Kong for refurbishment as very few places in the world could do the refurbishment. I am unsure if they had computer technology in those days? However refurbishment was a lot cheaper than buying new rollers.

Not sure what they do now as this was 30 years ago.

 

[otherclive]

One if the best cameras I had was a Halina 35mm, knocked spots off the Kodak 127 Brownie. The Halina was made in Hong Kong.

China has such a massive capability fir producing goods that it’s only to be expected that some will good quality and others inferior quality. I read an article that Chinese branded EVs are worrying established European makers. In that they may not be able to compete in mainstream mass market lower profit cars. That was one reason given for VW dropping the Passat saloon and moving the estate upmarket. Yet BYD have launched a saloon that competes in size with the outgoing Passat saloon.

 

[Buckman]

One if the best cameras I had was a Halina 35mm, knocked spots off the Kodak 127 Brownie. The Halina was made in Hong Kong.

China has such a massive capability fir producing goods that it’s only to be expected that some will good quality and others inferior quality. I read an article that Chinese branded EVs are worrying established European makers. In that they may not be able to compete in mainstream mass market lower profit cars. That was one reason given for VW dropping the Passat saloon and moving the estate upmarket. Yet BYD have launched a saloon that competes in size with the outgoing Passat saloon.

Hong Kong was different to mainland China and produced some first class goods. Maybe they still do, but the goods are probably now branded as coming from China?

We seem to have been unfortunate with some of the domestic Chinese goods that we have bought . Some have lasted days, some months and others are still in use.

Strangely many components of high value branded goods i.e. Laptopns, computers, Tvs etc of well known establishments are all from China or maybe actually Hong Kong?