Loading and Nose Weight

[Smith21]

I would like to ask two questions in one post if that's OK,

Firstly how far behind the axle would you recommend items be stored to get the noes weight down.

Secondly when it says store heavy item over the axle what weight is classed as heavy.

Regards

Kevin

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would like to ask two questions in one post if that's OK,

Firstly how far behind the axle would you recommend items be stored to get the noes weight down.

Secondly when it says store heavy item over the axle what weight is classed as heavy.

Its fine to ask ask as many questions as you like, and especially as they are related as in this case.

In reverse order, there is no formal defintion of what is a heavy item, but I suggest you have pretty good idea of what single items are heaviest in your kit list. Fairly typical 'heavey' items would be the awning, and/or its poles,spare wheel, etc. Generally its single fairly large items. For your safety and legal reasons gas bottles and batteries must be secured and carried in the spaces provided for them.

It is reccomended that heavy items are carried low down in the caravan to keep the centre of gravity low, but where in the caravan depends on the mix of items you have. How far back is determined by your effort to get the nose weight right for the outfit. It is recommended to avoid end loading as this increases a caravans (or any trailers) potential to develope a pendulum effect, but its not black and white, and some endloading can usually be tollerated.
As you become more familiar with your outfit, you will get to know roughly how to load items to achieve your desired nose load. So a strategy I personally use is to load all the smalle/lighter items and then put the awningdead over the axle. Check the nose weight, and then adjust the position of the awning to trim for the correct nose weight. Usually most caravanners ready to go on holiday have enough items whoes position can be moved to trim for the correct nose weights
Where I have helped others to load usually near empty caravans with over limit nose weights being moved fore service or storage, sometimes it has been necessary to provide some ballast, and that has been achieved by using the water barrel or containers which can have their content adusted to get the desired results. I tend to use colapsable plastic water containers for this now as they can be more easily lodged in rear under bed lockers/cupbards or in shower cubicles etc. This degree of end loading has never caused any problem, after all there is always going to be some weight at the end of a caravan, in its body work, and any internal fittings.
Its down to being sensible, and being prepared to make adjustments.
I hope this helps

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Kevin,
that is a good answer from John and just about covers it, however I would only add a few points.
as someone who struggles to keep the user payload weight down on a very lightweight van the ballast I would use is something more useful or nessesary like a coolbox full of food, or the spare wheel "in a bag" upside down with the ehu cable in it instead of a barrel full of water, allthough I allways carry a 5ltr bottle of water "supermarket type" for drinks enroute stored in the shower cubicle with the empty water hog,
second is the the contents of the front locker it is supprising how much weight is in there, in order to achieve the right noseweight take some of the items like EHU cable leveling ramps ect and carry in the boot untill you get on site.
colin

 

[Parksy]

Hi Kevin, it's always OK to ask as many questions as you like on this forum and the only silly question is the one that you should have asked - but didn't....
I concur with Colin, you need to bear in mind that your caravan payload includes food, clothing and accessories that you may wish to take with you so there may be items that would be of more use than water ballast (which is suitable for empty caravans).

The dark green area is where heavier items such as the awning, awning poles and groundsheet should be carried when towing, if you carry tins, jars etc; it's best to buy a plastic box to keep them together and place the box on the floor of the caravan , you can adjust the fore and aft position of the heavier items to achive the correct noseweight but please bear in mind that noseweight adjustment is never an exact science. All that you can do is to measure the noseweight at the caravan hitch ( not the jockey wheel) with your caravan on level ground and the hitch at the approximate height of the vehicle towball with the vehicle fully loaded.
The MTPLM of your caravan is the most important thing not to exceed, there have been countless forum debates about correct noseweight measurement with no definitive answer ever having come to light, so in practice it's best to try to achieve as close to your noseweight limit as possible for a safe stable tow because too little noseweight will affect stability.
Click Here for more on correctly loading the caravan.
Light items are things such as crockery and some small items of clothing which can be carried in the overhead lockers but take care that things like cups or plates don't fall out of lockers when in transit to cause expensive damage to your work surfaces, again you might consider placing them inside small boxes to keep them together and to stop them from moving around.

 

[Smith21]

Thanks for the quick response to my questions, both well answered. I think I am paranoid about weights I have purchased a Milenco nose weight gauge so I can accurately get the nose weight right. As to the weight of all the items in the Van I think I am OK as I have painstakingly weighed all the items and I still have 100KG or so left for personal things and food, hopefully that will be enough.

Now how much does that tin of beans weigh LOL

Kevin

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Kevin,

Can I just clarify for you and the others that have mentioned it, I only use water containers when the caravan is near empty, such as going for service or to a storage compound. at other times there are usually enough other items to be able to trim for the correct nose weight, but in the absence of other items water carriers offer a very flexible ballasting tool.

As Parksy has pointed out, there has been quite a heated debate about nose weights, whilst the Milenco nose weight gauge may be the best of the bunch, be aware that officially the nose weight should be measured at the hitch with the hitch at the same height above the ground as when it is hitched to the car and ready to roll. None of the commercially available gauges actually offer the necessary adjustment to maintain the hitch height, So err a little on the light side of your limit. I suggest aiming for 75 to 95% of your available nose weight limit.

Colin is quite correct about the nick-naks that many people carry in the front locker, they all add nose weight. Its worth remembering that if you have for example your EHU cable in the front locker, then that may add 3 Kg to the nose weight, so removing it will reduce the nose weight by 3kg, but by relocating to the back of the van, the nose weight will actually reduce.

Other useful tips include, not taking all your food with you, just take enough for the journey and the first night, then when you reach your destination buy what you need. _ most UK locations are not too far from one of the major supermarkets of of course there's the delights of the local shops.

 

[Parksy]

Because I tow with a 4x4 I'm fortunate that my towball is toward the top end of the allowable setting so I use a block of wood underneath my gauge to bring it to the approximate height when I measure the noseweight which admittedly is not very often.
The items carried in my caravan remain fairly constant and I have room enough to be able to put extra items (if any are needed) into my towing vehicle.
In reality after having caravanned regularly for 12 years I can't say that I've noticed much noseweight measurement being carried out when people leave campsites, there is very little evidence to suggest that noseweight measurement is a top priority amongst those using tourers on sites.
It would appear that in common with myself not many of us lose too much sleep over achieving an exact noseweight, I certainly dont!
I take care not to exceed the caravans MPTLM though

 

[Smith21]

Just to add to the original questions if I get my nose weight right and the MTPLM weight correct what about putting stuff in the boot of the car as this would add weight to the rear suspension, what weight would I be allowed in the boot?

Kevin

 

[Surfer]

I would not put too much weight in the boot otherwise your front wheels will start to "lift" and lose traction. This can be dangerous especially in wet weather.

 

[Parksy]

Your vehicle handbook will give you some idea of how much weight you can carry in your car but as Surfer mentioned, care must be taken to ensure that safety and stability are not affected.
It's quite common when you start caravanning to take everything but the kitchen sink 'just in case' (I did) but you will soon learn to sort the essentials from the things that you can do without.
We travel fairly light now, most of Herselfs better clothes stay at home in the wardrobe now that she's finally realised that we are camping rather than visiting royalty.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just to add to the original questions if I get my nose weight right and the MTPLM weight correct what about putting stuff in the boot of the car as this would add weight to the rear suspension, what weight would I be allowed in the boot?

Kevin

What load you can carry in the car is determined by the vehicle manufactures specifications. All manufactures have to specify the maximum permitted gross vehicle and axle loads, and as the axles carry the entire weight of the car that is the final arbiter, but some manufactures do specify boot loads, so check your vehicles specification.
It is important to realise that the trailers nose load is carried by the car, and it must be allowed for as part of the cars axle loads.
Providing none of the limits are exceeded the loss of traction at the front axle will be within the manufactures tollerances and should not be a problem under normal driving conditions.

 

[Smith21]

Starting to understand things now. Been and messed about with the caravan getting the nose weight right, I don't think it should be a problem as with the spare wheel and awning in the back of the van behind bathroom door I get the correct weight. So once I get other items in over the axel I may be able to move awning forward.

Kevin

 

[Surfer]

I don't think it is a good idea to have any weight in the very rear to try and balance out the outfit as it may lead to tail wagging which is very dangerous.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

I don't think it is a good idea to have any weight in the very rear to try and balance out the outfit as it may lead to tail wagging which is very dangerous.

what Surfer says is correct. however if it is the only way to get the noseweight down you may have to, but try all other permutations first, caravan loading is a aquired skill that you learn over time, and all vans are different.
for example our van has the cooker fridge and toilet right at the back of the van, but the nose weight is still 80+kg empty, now that is partly due to the axel being .40 of a mtr offset to the rear so there is more of the van body forward of the axel, when the fridge is full, the cookware stored in or under the cooker and the toilet flush is half full the nose weight goes down to 60kg ie 20kg extra weight right at the back of the van with absolutely no stability issues at all but i believe it was designed that way "if it wasn't then bailey are dead lucky" but a different van loaded with 20kg right at the back could cause a pendelum effect and make it unstable under tow.
which is where Surfers comment is right you may have to play around with different items in different positions untill you get it right.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello colin,
Good answer,
Though I would be very concerned if any caravan became unstable with just addition of an extra 20Kg to the rear. The chances are very high the caravan was so close to being unstable without any additional end load, and that calls into question the suitability of the outfit in the first place.
I estimate there can be as much as 50 to 100 Kg difference between the load at the rear of the caravan cause by differnt layouts, and there will be some margin available for payload loading. I think there could be easily be 50Kg added to the rear of most caravans at low level without a problem - provided gross weights and the nose weight are properly observed.
I am not suggesting everyone shoud start end loading, It is best avoided if at all possible.