Mandatory towing lessons?

[Surfer]

As per thsi link:- http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/consultations/2010/Third-Driver-Licensing-Directive.pdf

The problem with it being mandatory is that more than likely you will need to shell out £300 to £500 in order to obtain a licence to tow a caravan.

A cost like that is going to exclude a hell of a lot of people from caravaning and caravaning is going to become the domain of the well off or wealthy but even then they may not be too happy about going through the hassle of getting the licence and then paying for it.

End of caravaning as we know it? Perhaps Lutz would like to comment about towing regulations and licencing in Germany?

 

[ValA.]

Fortunately it apparently appears to apply only to new drivers! So us oldies can still carry on caravanning!

 

[Steve L]

I am kind of stuck on a nail on the fence on this one.

One part of me feels that a mandatory qualification to tow trailers is a good thing.

The second part of me tends to agree with Ian. This again is another jobs for the boys set up which historically has coarse fee's starting around the

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am kind of stuck on a nail on the fence on this one.

One part of me feels that a mandatory qualification to tow trailers is a good thing.

The second part of me tends to agree with Ian. This again is another jobs for the boys set up which historically has coarse fee's starting around the

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sorry posted this as a comment by mistake:-

Hey were on a role here I basically agree with Steve, (twice to-day that must be a record) but with one amendment.

I don't see why re-assessments should start at Forty. The majority of poor driving I see is from the relatively newly qualified right the way through to end of the road. so reassessment should start perhaps at 1 years for the NQD's, and extend up to 3 to 5 years from the second year onwards.

Radical yes, but who can argue against the logic?

It is almost mandatory now for most professions to have continuing professional development (CPD) and appraisal, so why not for driving. After all the Govt, manage to slip in new road regulations all the time, how do you keep up to speed with changes?

 

[Lutz]

Ian asked about towing regulations and licensing in Germany.

Licence categories (B, B+E, etc.), including the respective weight limits, have been harmonised within the EU so there is no difference between the UK and Germany, or any other European country for that matter.

The only difference is that there is no upper age limit in Germany for category B and B+E licences. They remain valid for life, although there have regularly been discussions about introducing an age limit. However, they have not been seriously followed up yet.

 

[DavidKlyne]

I think its far from clear at the moment what will happen. There is a veiw that retropective testing will not be introduced. I tend to share Ian's concern about cost because towing a trailer seems to be classed as a professional addition to the normal driving licence and priced accordingly. I have written to my MP about this in the hope that he will be able to answer the questions I posed. If I get a sensible reply I will post details here. If people are concerned I think this would be a good time to write to your MP as well.

David

 

[Surfer]

Even if you have a pre-1996 licence you will have to do the test when your photo card licence requires renewal if after 2013. The photo card licence only lasts 10 years.

Imagine you are the owner of a large twin axle which you have had for many years and then you find that you need to do the test as the entitled is not carried over no matter what your age is. However now in order to carry on towing your caravan you need to spend

 

[Steve L]

It's not too radical for me John.

But like a lot of things these days actually getting them in place is much harder work.

Most of the top haulage firms run continual assessment as standard practice today. It doesn't hurt for any driver to keep themselves in a good state of developement.

What I find hard to swallow is the fact that rather than encourage these schemes in a way to attract participation the government would rather slap heafty charges on by way of unaffordable fee's and pass legislation to make them mandatory.

You hum it son, I'll play it all we need now is Lutz on base and Dusty on drums and we'll be in X factor at this rate.

ATB Steve L.

 

[SteveW77]

While I do agree in principal with re-testing on a regular basis and the introduction of a test for towing, I do however see problems with the application of these systems.

In my area I am led to believe that it is taking several weeks to get a driving test for a normal licence and re- tests are taking months. If additional tests are added to this already over stretched system, it will collapse completely.

As far as towing is concerned, a special area will have to be provided for both tuition and the actual testing itself. I would not welcome large numbers of novice towers practicing their reversing in my road as the present learner drivers do.

Providing these special areas will be both costly and difficult to locate without raising local objections on the grounds of disruption of traffic flow caused by queues of caravans arriving through out the day and the dislike of caravans by a large numbers of the general public.

Steve W

 

[Lutz]

Ian, Germany requires a minimum of 5 hours of practical training with an approved driving school before being allowed to take the test to upgrade from a category B to a category B+E licence. This must include one hour of driving on the motorway and one hour in darkness.

 

[Surfer]

Lutz any idea of the cost of upgrading tot he B+E licence including driver training? What sort fo facilities do they sue for driver training? Thanks.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It's not too radical for me John.

But like a lot of things these days actually getting them in place is much harder work.

Most of the top haulage firms run continual assessment as standard practice today. It doesn't hurt for any driver to keep themselves in a good state of developement.

What I find hard to swallow is the fact that rather than encourage these schemes in a way to attract participation the government would rather slap heafty charges on by way of unaffordable fee's and pass legislation to make them mandatory.

You hum it son, I'll play it all we need now is Lutz on base and Dusty on drums and we'll be in X factor at this rate.

ATB Steve L.

Sorry Steve,

The Bass is all mine, and I won't let any one else play with so there!

 

[Chrisbee]

Most people would probably pass a towing test because like all candidates they would be concentrating on their driving and obeying speed limits, road signs etc. Once they have passed I'm sure they would drive just as badly as they do now.

 

[Lutz]

Lutz any idea of the cost of upgrading tot he B+E licence including driver training? What sort fo facilities do they sue for driver training? Thanks.

Prices are, of course, up to the driving school, but one one can reckon on about 40 Euros per hour plus about 50 Euros registration fee plus 100 Euros preparation for the test, making a minimum of 350 Euros. On top of driving school fees there's the cost of the test itself and the administration fee for issueing the B+E licence, adding another 125 Euros. The total cost of upgrading will therefore be in the order of 475 Euros plus any additional lessons that may be necessary.

 

[marlot]

I think that all drivers should have mandatory top-up training (not necessarily tests) every 3 years.

I think its crazy that I can be fined or struck off as an accoutant for not doing top-up training every year, but can pass a car test at 17 and never have another days training in my life.

I take my driving seriously, but even so, I'm more likely to kill someone on the road than through my accounting!!!!

 

[DomDom]

Ah, the joys of holding the HGV1 No limits.

With all these new proposals and regulations it's going to get to a point where taking the HGV1 (sorry, C+E) will be easier and cheaper. Talk about over complicating things.

Oh, and the medical? Apparently my Class 2 aviation medical which was infinitely more thorough is not acceptable for HGV purposes. Apparently I HAD to have the much less thorough medical for DVLA to be sure I was OK. Needless to say I had to pay another fee.

Yep, rules for extracting more cash. Not even thinly disguised.

 

[stephena]

I feel i must chip in on this one...

Im new to caravanning and took my test after Jan 97 so have a 3500kgs weight limit. For a time i thought i was going to have to shell out

 

[machighlander]

Just my ten pence worth but i feel there is a sustantial arguement that riding a motorcycle is as dangerous as towing.

stephen, the element of danger is apparent to all road users, to compare bikes and towing is a wee bit baffling to me.

this thread is exactly the type of ammo that the powers to be could use to bring in future legislation, do you not all think weve had enough over the years ?

bikers limited to 125cc instead of 250cc when being learners, then all the changes to the current license holders entitelments regarding their age, only being able to step up to higher cc machines when at a certain age. load of bollocks, what about young born with silver spoon in the mouth 17 year old son of the earl of wherever, he can still have his driving lessons in a 1.4 run of the mill instructors car. then, the day he passes his test, daddy has a shiny new ferrari or some other stupendously fast car waiting on him on the drive with a ribbon around it ?, no legislation to worry about.

same as towing, no-one has put forward any recommendations to enforce any changes to the current criteria of who can do what, so lets not give the beaks any more food for thought, leave things well alone.

as much as i agree with most replies and can see the sense in them, i just feel we dont need anymore restrictive decisions being made against our rights to be on the roads.

cheers.

 

[stephena]

Just my ten pence worth but i feel there is a sustantial arguement that riding a motorcycle is as dangerous as towing.

stephen, the element of danger is apparent to all road users, to compare bikes and towing is a wee bit baffling to me.

this thread is exactly the type of ammo that the powers to be could use to bring in future legislation, do you not all think weve had enough over the years ?

bikers limited to 125cc instead of 250cc when being learners, then all the changes to the current license holders entitelments regarding their age, only being able to step up to higher cc machines when at a certain age. load of bollocks, what about young born with silver spoon in the mouth 17 year old son of the earl of wherever, he can still have his driving lessons in a 1.4 run of the mill instructors car. then, the day he passes his test, daddy has a shiny new ferrari or some other stupendously fast car waiting on him on the drive with a ribbon around it ?, no legislation to worry about.

same as towing, no-one has put forward any recommendations to enforce any changes to the current criteria of who can do what, so lets not give the beaks any more food for thought, leave things well alone.

as much as i agree with most replies and can see the sense in them, i just feel we dont need anymore restrictive decisions being made against our rights to be on the roads.

cheers.

My comparison was merely to suggest that some mandatory training would not be a terrible idea to improve the safety of new towers (regardless of age) but that the current B+E scenario is expensive and potentially putting people off caravanning.

Extra safety training can not be a bad thing but the current B+E is in my opinion an money making scheme that is putting younger (merely becuase of the Jan 1997 cut off) drivers off caravanning.

Im a safe biker on a 125cc but anything after that and it gets a mega money course , what im suggesting is a happy medium of mandatory CBT for towing upto 3500kgs and expensive training for anything above.

For what its worth i am in complete agreement we dont need further restrictions but i fear its only a matter of time before they come up with a crazy scheme anyway so i was putting forward a compromise.