Mazda 6 estate

[otherclive]

If we do go ahead and have a seasonal pitch for 2020 I’m thinking of moving to a petrol estate. I quite like the Mazda 6 estates (2014-2017) but wonder what their 2 litre petrol engines are like for towing. There seem to be two power outputs and neither are turbo assisted.

Prior to the Superb I had a 2014 Forester 2.0 150 bhp cvt and it really needed too many revs even towing 1300 kg MTPLM. Yet years ago my Mk 1 Mondeo with 2.0 136 bhp torque converter auto had no problems towing a 1260 kg van.

So it’s not just torque it’s gear ratios too.

Any Mazda 6 petrol owners out there?

 

[Guzzilazz]

CVT would certainly make a huge difference to engine revs....

 

[JezzerB]

Mazda have gone their own way with clean burn lower powered bigger engines-they are supposed to be economical day to day and since we towed a 1450kg caravan with our petrol Dacia Duster 1.6 Access 4x4(109bhp) and managed getting 24mpg at the speed limit and usually 56 mph on motorways. We had to think ahead-overtaking lorries needed a drop down and hills sometimes needed 2 gear drop ie 4th-but as long as you work it I think it will be great-different way of working with a petrol-you need more revs, but they like revs and sound better than diesels! Cannot speak for the cvt auto but they aren't well liked by the motoring press as the revs dont match roadspeed etc! I feel more in control with a manual and they are often more economical=not always though!
NB haven't got one BUT love cars!
Good no nonsense advice here is my first point of call-and of course the Diesel has more torque for regular towers-still think given our experience petrols can make good towcars with a different mindset to the drive.
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/mazda/6-2013/

 

[ProfJohnL]

... Prior to the Superb I had a 2014 Forester 2.0 150 bhp cvt and it really needed too many revs even towing 1300 kg MTPLM. Yet years ago my Mk 1 Mondeo with 2.0 136 bhp torque converter auto had no problems towing a 1260 kg van.

So it’s not just torque it’s gear ratios too....

Too many revs? I would hope that Subaru would have programmed the gearbox and engine management systems to optimise engine speed for power ànd torque and the CVT ratio to provide the best transfer function for the job in hand. This might mean the rpm is higher than you may be used to in other vehicles, but it does not mean it's necessarily too high.

 

[JezzerB]

That often seems to be the big criticism of CVT gear boxes-mum had a Honda Jazz auot-CVT- it revved like mad then the revs dropped as you were underway settling once cruising-you just need to get used to it and of course you can't overrev an auto-even in its manual mode(yes it had one and flappy paddles aka F1) it would override you to protect the engine!

 

[otherclive]

... Prior to the Superb I had a 2014 Forester 2.0 150 bhp cvt and it really needed too many revs even towing 1300 kg MTPLM. Yet years ago my Mk 1 Mondeo with 2.0 136 bhp torque converter auto had no problems towing a 1260 kg van.

So it’s not just torque it’s gear ratios too....

Too many revs? I would hope that Subaru would have programmed the gearbox and engine management systems to optimise engine speed for power ànd torque and the CVT ratio to provide the best transfer function for the job in hand. This might mean the rpm is higher than you may be used to in other vehicles, but it does not mean it's necessarily too high.

Prof, believe you me that compared to my previous petrol non turbo cars the Subaru revved its nuts off on slopes that my other petrols would have just dropped down into a lower gear. The problem with the CVT was that it was so responsive to load that it piled on the revs quickly then dropped back only to repeat the same. Im sure having had Subarus in the family before that the company would have optimised it for best performance in the conditions, but my ears didn't see it that way. The engine was quite capable of high revs having the redline well to the right but it was not a comfortable drive. We did not buy the Subaru as a tow car having sold our caravan and all of the kit. As a solo car it was very good, so I thought that after buying a Trigano pop top it should be fine, but on its first outing to brecon I began to have doubts. But I stuck with it and brought the current van back from Exeter and then took it to the south coast but definitely not a good experience engine wise. Checking it out on Towcar.info showed the mismatch on engine performance but not stability.
My experience though highlights the issue with having car with a max tow load of 2000kg and one that is visibly not a relaxing drive pulling 1300kg. People will often be persuaded that max towing load will give them a good matched outfit, but not always the case.

PS i did have manual mode but that didn't really help as having an auto in manual fora long drive sort of defeats the object.

 

[otherclive]

CVT would certainly make a huge difference to engine revs....

Thanks. Mazda don't use CVT they use torque convertor boxes, having ruled out CVT and DSG for the range of cars. Current models are six speed torque convertor gearboxes, designed to resist "hunting" and to optimise lock up which then gives more linear feel between engine speed and road speed.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1064742_mazda-rejects-dsgs-redefines-automatic-transmissions-instead

 

[Guzzilazz]

CVT would certainly make a huge difference to engine revs....

Thanks. Mazda don't use CVT they use torque convertor boxes, having ruled out CVT and DSG for the range of cars. Current models are six speed torque convertor gearboxes, designed to resist "hunting" and to optimise lock up which then gives more linear feel between engine speed and road speed.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1064742_mazda-rejects-dsgs-redefines-automatic-transmissions-instead

But... the Subaru referred to by the OP was CVT and he was hoping to prevent the "over-revving".

I worked for Volvo in the heyday of the 340 CVT, and driving technique was to floor it then back off when you got to the speed you wanted...

 

[otherclive]

CVT would certainly make a huge difference to engine revs....

Thanks. Mazda don't use CVT they use torque convertor boxes, having ruled out CVT and DSG for the range of cars. Current models are six speed torque convertor gearboxes, designed to resist "hunting" and to optimise lock up which then gives more linear feel between engine speed and road speed.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1064742_mazda-rejects-dsgs-redefines-automatic-transmissions-instead

But... the Subaru referred to by the OP was CVT and he was hoping to prevent the "over-revving".

I worked for Volvo in the heyday of the 340 CVT, and driving technique was to floor it then back off when you got to the speed you wanted...

Drove a DAF from Leicester to Cardiff many years back. That was an experience!!!!

 

[Raywood]

We are on our third Mazda 6 and they have all been totally reliable and towed thousands of miles without any problems. The first two were diesels and were superb, the current one is the higher power petrol, as we thought the lower rating would not be up to the job.
We currently tow at up to 1350 kg, and the car is generally on top of the job. You do need to change down more on hills than you would with a diesel, but it is never a problem for us, and the fuel consumption is higher than a diesel when towing, about 28 mpg as against about 32 for the diesel, in normal driving without the caravan we get over 40 but this is Scotland with lighter traffic than many places.
Provided you keep the caravan down under about 1350 kg the car should do the job. We have just done a 500 mile round trip, and many have been more than that.
Provided your caravan is not too heavy, the Mazda is as good as anything.

 

[otherclive]

Well we’ve finally come to a decision on replacing the Superb 4x4 diesel with a petrol engined car. Given that two local cities, Bath and Bristol, are both going green and are likely to restrict or ban diesels we are falling in line with the trend. 😗

Going back to a Subaru Forester. But this time the model with an energy boosting power train. No not the electric hybrid, the XT turbo. The extra 90bhp compared to our last Forester should do the job. And for 2020 the job will include towing to a seasonal pitch and back again with the possibility ( hopefully) of some UK touring away from the seasonal.

 

[Raywood]

Never driven a Subaru but they always seem a decent tow car and I have always wondered about them. Let us know how things go.

 

[otherclive]

Never driven a Subaru but they always seem a decent tow car and I have always wondered about them. Let us know how things go.

Ray thanks,

We looked at Grand Vitara and the load area was too small and even the 2.4 seemed bit wheezy solo. The Mazda 6 was really nice but too low down for "titch" who found our XC70 and the Superb restricted her awareness of the cars corners. So as we really liked our recent Forester 150bhp we saw a chance of a low mileage one come up but with the turbo petrol engine. I'd driven one before and liked it but sensibility said buy the 150 bhp. That was great solo but when we came back into caravanning was leisurely and not very relaxing with even a 1300kg caravan. So as I have always hankered after a WRX Impreza the Forester XT seemed a reasonable compromise. "Titch gets the better view and I get a more relaxed drive, albeit with not brilliant fuel economy. Towcar.info rates the outfit maximum speed at 100mph. But you will not find me anywhere near that even solo.

 

[JezzerB]

Be sure to let us know what mpg you get when towing-we found our petrol not much worse than diesel!

 

[otherclive]

Be sure to let us know what mpg you get when towing-we found our petrol not much worse than diesel!

With a manual. Saab 9000 CSE turbo (225 bhp) towing 1400 kg I got around 22-24 mpg. . The Forester 150 non turbo cvt gave a similar figure towing 1300 kg. The Superb gives almost 30 mpg. Didn’t buy the Forester XT for economy and possibly not towing anywhere significant until April when we go to the seasonal. However with a sensible approach I’d expect it to not be too far away from the above figures.

The insurance was a revelation as for the remaining 6 months it only cost an extra £28 and that included a £15 admin fee for the change. They must have known that my neighbour has a Nissan GT-R which is far more attractive to thieves than an “old caravanners” tug.

 

[Raywood]

Not changing just yet but will look at the Subaru but the dealer is some way off. My wife has suddenly said she wants a Jeep so will see if as usual she ends up getting her way.

 

[otherclive]

Be sure to let us know what mpg you get when towing-we found our petrol not much worse than diesel!

As I have said I will probably not be towing until into the new year. No towbar yet!
But the Subaru XT was recently serviced, filled with Mobil 1ESP, and 60 litres of BP Ultimate. I changed the tyres which were between 7.5mm and 5 mm of tread as they were two brand new GT Radials and part work Dueler HP and a Turanza. So I had four new Bridgestone Weather Controls fitted.

I drove it over to South Wales on the M4 cruising between 65-70mph as traffic was quite busy. Over some 90 miles it averaged 42.9 mpg. I expect it to possibly improve as three tanks of BP Ultimate work on the fuel system, valves and pistons. Coming back I drove at a slightly higher speed showing an average about 4 mph higher for the return journey and consumption dropped to 37 mpg.

On both trips I had the engine in Intelligent (eco) mode but for towing Subaru recommend Sport mode ( it has three modes) which basically puts a few more revs on for a given road speed. Unlike my previous SJ Forester with the 150 bhp non turbo engine I am far less aware on this XT of the non linear relationship between road and engine speed as the turbo torque comes in early which means the engine speed doesn’t ramp up the CVT gearing. A much more relaxed drive. The higher performance Sport Sharp mode drops the CVT into eight pre set gear ratios and I swear it pulls the headrest forwards and tightens the seat belts. 😗

So although it wasn’t bought with fuel economy as number one priority I’m pleased with what it is giving. Better than my previous Subaru Forester 150 bhp CVT, the 2010 XC 70 D5 AWD Geartronic and better than a Saab 9000 2.3 CSE manual 2wd. Not as good though as the Superb 170 ps 4x4 TDI DSG.

And the icing on the cake of the weekend was a great time in Cardiff watching Wales defeat the Ba Bas and a good evening had by all.

When I have some experience towing with it I will start a new thread.