Motor mover battery.

[Notmyvan]

Perhaps your tyres need pumping up. (Rolling Resistance) I bought a caravan last year from a dealer who said they would service it before I collected it. When they had it on the ramp I turned up to have a look underneath, I asked the mechanic what they did on the service and he said "We dont service it, we make sure its safe"
Anyway as a retired garage owner I decided to check the caravan over.
They had to fit a new spare tyre as the one underneath the caravan was 9 years old, I checked the tyre pressure and it was 45 psi, should have been 65.
It was then obvious that they had never checked the other tyre pressures as with the tyre valves being brass and the valve caps being aluminium the valve caps had chorroded and siezed on the brass valves.
Which means they had never checked the tyre pressures.
Assuming that it could have been years since the tyres had been checked its very likely they would have been a lower pressure than they should have been, Hence would have been harder for a Motor Mover to push.

The valve caps would not come undone even with using 2 pairs of mole grips.
I had to take both wheels off and take them to a tyre depot where they cut the valves off and then pumped the tyres up to 65.

Always check your tyre pressures yourself. And wheel nuts.

 

[SteveW]

Are you kidding? 😆

Erm, lithium (FePO4 at least) are fine outside a battery compartment. No nasty gasses. One more reason to dump Stone Age battery technology 😉

Steve

 

[Buckman]

Erm, lithium (FePO4 at least) are fine outside a battery compartment. No nasty gasses. One more reason to dump Stone Age battery technology 😉

Steve

Actually I was referring to OC quip about caravanners and common sense. At present we ae looking into purchasing a lithium battery to spend more time off grid, but even for a 100 or 150ah lithium the prices are eye watering and it would take us a very long time to recoup the outlay.

 

[SteveW]

Ah sorry. One thing I do see regarding lithium is very high prices being asked for by well known brand names. Yet inside the battery case with logo etc will likely be the same chinese made lithium prismatic cells as supplied in unbranded types. I saw a comment here about 100AH lithiums costing 7-800 I think, yet eBay reveals a market price of around 400 ish. Sellers will often haggle a bit too. Direct from China via AliExpress etc is also worth a look. Loads of cells there for home constructors too. Of course there is also the price of a new lithium compatible charger unless the van is already equipped, an old 13.8V fixed float only charger is never going to fully charge lithium batteries. I’ve been really happy with the eBay sourced lithium batteries I have and sourced a marine market charger on eBay for the 240VAC charging,

Steve

 

[Buckman]

Ah sorry. One thing I do see regarding lithium is very high prices being asked for by well known brand names. Yet inside the battery case with logo etc will likely be the same chinese made lithium prismatic cells as supplied in unbranded types. I saw a comment here about 100AH lithiums costing 7-800 I think, yet eBay reveals a market price of around 400 ish. Sellers will often haggle a bit too. Direct from China via AliExpress etc is also worth a look. Loads of cells there for home constructors too. Of course there is also the price of a new lithium compatible charger unless the van is already equipped, an old 13.8V fixed float only charger is never going to fully charge lithium batteries. I’ve been really happy with the eBay sourced lithium batteries I have and sourced a marine market charger on eBay for the 240VAC charging,

Steve

I have been reliably informed that most modern chargers can accommodate lithium batteries. No issue with ours as it can handle AGM battery and we do not even have to change the solar panel controller if fitting a lithium.

Also found out that while a number of companies state that you need at least 300w solar panels to charge the lithium battery, apparently 100w would be adequate.

 

[bertieboy1]

Hi ‘ I need to purchase a new battery for my Bailey Pegasus Rimini GT 65 , I have fitted a new motor mover to it and need to know what Amp battery to get that will move caravan with ease , previous battery was 100 Amp and seemed to struggle a bit , any advice would be very nice
Regards
Paul

The mover instructions should give recomendations regarding battery capacities.
100Ah rated battery should be more than sufficient for the motor mover.Maybe the battery was only partially charged when you started using the mover.

 

[Hutch]

Hi ‘ I need to purchase a new battery for my Bailey Pegasus Rimini GT 65 , I have fitted a new motor mover to it and need to know what Amp battery to get that will move caravan with ease , previous battery was 100 Amp and seemed to struggle a bit , any advice would be very nice
Regards
Paul

Hi Paulsy, I found at one time my motor mover was not working well, with the mover away from the tyres it operated ok , but under load nothing would move. I traced the problem down to not fully tight connections at the fuse in the system, I then went around all the other electrical connections in the control box, and managed to get a *** up on all connections.
Good luck.

 

[otherclive]

In post 21 didn't the OP say he was buying 100AH from Halfords?

 

[SteveW]

I have been reliably informed that most modern chargers can accommodate lithium batteries. No issue with ours as it can handle AGM battery and we do not even have to change the solar panel controller if fitting a lithium.

Also found out that while a number of companies state that you need at least 300w solar panels to charge the lithium battery, apparently 100w would be adequate.

Basically the charger has to have an output voltage that is configurable, usually to be 14.6v maximum, and the ability to detect battery voltage and charge current such that it switches back to either off or at least lower voltage float when the battery is fully charged. I was primarily referring to old fashioned fixed voltage caravan DC supply/chargers such as the original on our Bailey that would never properly charge lithium as over 14V is needed. The size is of panel you need is very much determined by the season and weather in which you operate rather than battery size in my experience. In winter but on a sunny day today I added about 18AH to our batteries, not massive but still worth having. That’s with 350W of mono panels total (2x175). In summer the setup can give 5x that, with a peak of over 200W being achieved at our latitudes ( note NOT 350W). So in summer there is a massive DC power surplus on averagely sunny days, whereas in winter the batteries would be losing charge with the van in use, albeit fairly slowly. In our use I would ideally have at least another 175W of panel , total 525W to achieve any real self sufficiency off grid in winter or sustained poor weather. Headline power means not a lot, it’s what the panels yield when sunlight is limited by season or weather that may matter most. I would agree that for clear weather in summer only 100W of panel would be pretty useful. Just not in January for those of us caravanning out of season,

Steve

 

[paulsy69]

Hi Paulsy, I found at one time my motor mover was not working well, with the mover away from the tyres it operated ok , but under load nothing would move. I traced the problem down to not fully tight connections at the fuse in the system, I then went around all the other electrical connections in the control box, and managed to get a *** up on all connections.
Good luck.

Hi Hutch
Thanks for your advice , I did fit the mover myself but I will go over all the connections again to check for tightness and a good +- fitting oh and the fuses !!

 

[Hutch]

Hi Hutch
Thanks for your advice , I did fit the mover myself but I will go over all the connections again to check for tightness and a good +- fitting oh and the fuses !!

Another time, after a 6 week tour of France, not using the mover much, got home at about 2 am, engaged the motor mover to put the van on the driveway. Nothing. Next day inspected everything, found out the battery was destroyed, I thought it was a gel one, but it was a wet cell, I had never topped it up in 3 years.

 

[paulsy69]

Hi Hutch
Thats interesting as I thought modern wet cell batteries didn’t need topping up like they did in the good old days , maybe that’s why my old battery died ? I still haven’t bought a new one yet as been busy with work , I will get one from Halfords , can’t afford a Lithium one as they are silly money .

 

[otherclive]

Hi Hutch
Thats interesting as I thought modern wet cell batteries didn’t need topping up like they did in the good old days , maybe that’s why my old battery died ? I still haven’t bought a new one yet as been busy with work , I will get one from Halfords , can’t afford a Lithium one as they are silly money .

I cannot think when I last topped up a modern “ maintenance free’ lead acid battery in a car or caravan. On my last caravan I chose a Banner LA battery and that had the old style easily accessible caps on each cell. That I did periodically check and in three years I do not think I added water more than twice and then only minuscule quantity.

 

[Tobes]

I cannot think when I last topped up a modern “ maintenance free’ lead acid battery in a car or caravan. On my last caravan I chose a Banner LA battery and that had the old style easily accessible caps on each cell. That I did periodically check and in three years I do not think I added water more than twice and then only minuscule quantity.



View attachment 4260

That is the exact battery that I had for 6 years and just died. I had to regularly top it up. I believe the Bailey installed solar controller killed it as it was showing voltages of over 15V. I replaced with Lithium and a new solar control unit.

 

[Hutch]

I am ( normally) not a Numpty, and if the old grey cells agree, the top up screws were covered by a one piece pull off cover.
But when I realised, I had Messed up, my my was I disappointed, ( the American spell check would not allow my real answer). On that trip I had to maneuver the caravan through a very narrow gateway, in the middle of nowhere,( South of France) at my Sister in laws place, and the motor mover worked well for 15 minutes in and again out 2 days later. 2 weeks later, nothing on arriving home.
Halfords Batteries all the way.

 

[otherclive]

I am ( normally) not a Numpty, and if the old grey cells agree, the top up screws were covered by a one piece pull off cover.
But when I realised, I had Messed up, my my was I disappointed, ( the American spell check would not allow my real answer). On that trip I had to maneuver the caravan through a very narrow gateway, in the middle of nowhere,( South of France) at my Sister in laws place, and the motor mover worked well for 15 minutes in and again out 2 days later. 2 weeks later, nothing on arriving home.
Halfords Batteries all the way.

Are you saying you were not impressed by Halfords battery, as I understand these days they are made by YUASA, a very well regarded maker.

 

[Hutch]

Are you saying you were not impressed by Halfords battery, as I understand these days they are made by YUASA, a very well regarded maker.

OC, maybe I was not clear enough, Several glasses of Malbec at the pub.
I have found the batteries I have purchased from Halfords to be excellent, I tend to go for the more expensive one's with a longer guarantee, and recite put it in a safe place, with the Caravan documents in the fire proof file cabinet.

Now where is that cabinet ?

 

[Sam Vimes]

Last year my new car with a Smart Altenator killed my 2 year old 100Ah caravan battery to the extent that on the last trip home we couldn't use the motor mover to get the van up the driveway. Since the motor mover is the only option I took the 75Ah battery out of the car and put it in the caravan. It moved the van without any problem up a 30m gravel driveway that's a 25% gradient in parts.

Put the battery back in the car and had no problems using it.

Now searching for a new battery before the season starts. Will probably still go for aapproximately a 100Ah battery even though we have never been off grid - but there's always a first time.

This time around I will be towing with the caravan battery disconnected.

 

[RogerL]

Last year my new car with a Smart Altenator killed my 2 year old 100Ah caravan battery to the extent that on the last trip home we couldn't use the motor mover to get the van up the driveway. Since the motor mover is the only option I took the 75Ah battery out of the car and put it in the caravan. It moved the van without any problem up a 30m gravel driveway that's a 25% gradient in parts.

Put the battery back in the car and had no problems using it.

Now searching for a new battery before the season starts. Will probably still go for aapproximately a 100Ah battery even though we have never been off grid - but there's always a first time.

This time around I will be towing with the caravan battery disconnected.

Killing the caravan battery just by being connected to the car during towing is surely a fault that can be corrected?

 

[Sam Vimes]

Not really a fault but an incompatiblity between some cars with smart alternators and caravans. Neither side seems to want to address the problem.

The underlying issue is that some Smart Alternators switch off....actually the output is reduced, not entirely switched off.....to reduce loading in the engine. In that phase the cars electrics are powered from the battery. The battery is then charged from the alternator by regenerative techniques such as breaking and coasting.

When the Smart Alternator has low output the caravan battery can provide power to the car and gets drained. It does not appear to get recharged and I don't know why not.

Another side affect is that the fridge will not get powered constantly when towing.

Affects vary from car to car but mine seemed to be worse case.

There are widgets you can buy...not cheaply....that will basically isolate the car/caravan and produce a higher output to the caravan when the Smart Alternator is in low output mode. This way the caravan battery gets charged and the fridge is powered when towing.

Since we seldom go off grid, so always on a hook up, our caravan battery is fully charged when we commence towing. So the easiest/cheapest option is to just disconnect it when towing and reconnect when we get home or on site.

 

[JTQ]

There are widgets you can buy...not cheaply....that will basically isolate the car/caravan and produce a higher output to the caravan when the Smart Alternator is in low output mode. This way the caravan battery gets charged and the fridge is powered when towing.

There are some caravan electronic charger/distribution units that feature a voltage "boost" device to elevate the voltage that reaches the caravan to a healthy level for battery charging, Schaudt is one such maker.

This lifts, from right down at 10 volts, to output up to 14.3 volts charge as required.
This nicely compensates with the inevitable charging voltage drop through the wiring, often itself pretty inadequately sized, and no doubt will go some way to counter the negative ramifications we have with our smart alternators.
I certainly have no problems with poor levels of battery state of charge, nor battery life.
My Schaudt unit does not boost the fridge feed, but I have never thought trying to power it through the puny wiring the van and car maker provide is anything but laughable, and largely and thankfully not that needed.

I had thought Swift also employed a charger/controller brand that shared this desirable voltage "boost" feature?

 

[Sam Vimes]

The widget I was referring to was a DC-DC convertor to raise the low voltage at the 13 pin connector to over 13.8v. But at about £180 it was simpler and cheaper to use a couple of quick release clamps I already had.

I've pointed out elsewhere that the voltage system in the caravan is referred to as a 12v system but in fact if this is the voltage at the 13 pin connector it's not sufficient to power the fridge nor charge the van battery. The on board PSU is rated at 13.8v and not 12v. Poor working practices in the caravan don't help

 

[Buckman]

That is the exact battery that I had for 6 years and just died. I had to regularly top it up. I believe the Bailey installed solar controller killed it as it was showing voltages of over 15V. I replaced with Lithium and a new solar control unit.

Was it a straight for for the lithium? When on site do you tend to use the battery as much as possible to get down EHU usage? Interested in your opinion. Thanks.

 

[JTQ]

If the mentioned batteries are from Banner's "Energy Bull" series, these use a technology where they expect them to "use" water.
Therefore, on this particular series, they fit individual cell caps.

Excellent batteries, but one where user care is fundamental. Quite significant water loss is to be expected.
Achieving six years points to being way more aware than many, Sadly, I know of several reported cases with caravans & MHs, where for whatever reason users have not been aware of this aspect. In one-way things are not helped in encouraging user care, as the cap design is inherently relatively tight fitting, needing either the special key or a DIY snug fitting alternative to avoid abuse. Secreted away as they typically are in our application, just adds to users' challenges.

I have for some years used one, a portable one, for traction duty to power my caravan mover, just when the van is on and around my property. When not in use, it lives always on a CTEK charger
With that duty, I need as I had expected, to top it up about twice a year.
The much greater cycling it would see as a caravan's leisure battery, then IMO the attention to water levels would need to be more frequent.

 

[Tobes]

If the mentioned batteries are from Banner's "Energy Bull" series, these use a technology where they expect them to "use" water.
Therefore, on this particular series, they fit individual cell caps.

Excellent batteries, but one where user care is fundamental. Quite significant water loss is to be expected.
Achieving six years points to being way more aware than many, Sadly, I know of several reported cases with caravans & MHs, where for whatever reason users have not been aware of this aspect. In one-way things are not helped in encouraging user care, as the cap design is inherently relatively tight fitting, needing either the special key or a DIY snug fitting alternative to avoid abuse. Secreted away as they typically are in our application, just adds to users' challenges.

I have for some years used one, a portable one, for traction duty to power my caravan mover, just when the van is on and around my property. When not in use, it lives always on a CTEK charger
With that duty, I need as I had expected, to top it up about twice a year.
The much greater cycling it would see as a caravan's leisure battery, then IMO the attention to water levels would need to be more frequent.

I used to check on it and too it up at the start of and end of the season. But over 2020 lockdown, it didn’t get the love and attention (and distilled water) it needed. That combined with the (what I believed to be) failed solar charge controler resulted in 2 dead cells. :-(