motorway blowouts and flats

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Mar 14, 2005
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On this point I do concur with JTQ.

It reinforces the necessity of doing proper tyre checks (Pressure, wear and signs of cracking or bulging) on vehicles before travelling.

If TPMS's were more reliable they would provide a useful check whilst in motion, but they should never be used to circumvent proper care and maintenance.
 
May 22, 2014
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Hi, I was browsing topics and came across this in my search and registered just so that I could contribute something. I operate a mobile tyre service and consequently fit Tyron bands, repair punctures etc, etc. Anyway, Tyron bands serve a purpose. As has been previously stated they are there simply to afford you the opportunity to pull over safely in the event of a rapid deflation that would otherwise probably cause the tyre to come away from the wheel rim and drop into the well. The well being there for the purpose of allowing tyres to be fitted / removed from the wheel. The Tyron bands are in different sizes (widths) as the well width varies between wheels and we also fit plastic spacer buttons to match the depth of the well. Consequently one Tyron band cannot necessarily be fitted to another wheel as it may not be of the correct width ( not that anyone asked but I thought I would mention it) The original fitting takes the time normally because you don't know which size is required until you remove the tyre to see inside the wheel, so normally I would have a selection of three sets of bands (narrow/med/wide) and select the appropriate size and then select the correct depth buttons. .Once the correct band is selected and the correct buttons fitted, removal and replacement in the event of a tyre change is simple enough as all I need to do is compress the tyre down with a cage over the wheel and a long Allen key to undo the bolts that tighten it in place. Having the right kit is what makes the difference. As regards are they any good? well the military use them on their Land Rovers, whether that is relevent I don't know but I presume that they have their reasons.. I suppose that you could look on it as a one payment insurance policy. I don't suppose many caravanners would not have a spare wheel yet most new cars nowadays don't have one - instead they just have an inflation kit and liquid and I come across plenty of people that have used the kits without success. It's all down to peace of mind. Just like checking your wheel nuts are still tight. Most people don't want a list of worries to think about when they are going on holiday so they take whatever preventative measures they think are appropriate. Tyron bands just being one measure that some people take.
Mention was made about the use of that latex liquid for repairing punctures. It is horrible stuff and only works in about 50% of punctures. Also, there is often not enough pressure in the canister to reinflate your tyre properly. if the puncture is in a side wall ( kerb damage) it won't work. Also I cannot repair a puncture when this liquid has been used as it coats the inside of the tyre with liquid latex and there is a load of it sloshing around making it almost impossible to get a clean surface to allow you to carry out a proper patch/plug repair to British Standard.
A suggestion was made about the use of runflat tyres. Cars like the BMW mini have run flat tyres and consequently have TPMS (tyre pressure monitoring system) fitted. The problem with these are that you do not know that you have a puncture. The sidewalls have to be stiff enough to provide support in the event of the air pressure escaping via a puncture. I have people ignore the TPMS warning light because they could not see anything visibly different with the tyre as it wasn't flat! The result was that the tyre eventually destroys itself which is when the driver thinks they've just had the puncture. Run flats are only intended to be used as a get you home measure so that you are not stuck on a motorway. The recommended maximum driving distance on a punctured run flat is 50 miles giving you the opportunity to get home or to a garage to get it changed. Also as I normally fit commercial van tyres on single axle caravans ( to ensure the tyre load rating is not exceeded) there are no run flats for vans at present and I'm not expecting any soon.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Basingstoke,

Thanks for joining the debate. Yes the military do use bands, but does that make the case for ordinary drivers to use the same technology? The manufacture would like you to think so. but that only holds true if you can make direct comparisons about design, manufacture, and usage.

The manufacture publishes videos of various different vehicles reportedly using bands, and running with flat tyres. In some cases they try to mimic a blow out using a small explosive charge. The problem for me is that whilst these demonstrations appear to be impressive, what do they actually show?

Well straight off, they only demonstrated the case for fitting bands, which is of course a good marketing ploy. After all everyone is likely to favour a product that appears to 'improve safety' Unfortunately they do not show what happens when the same vehicles are used without bands, for all we know the results might be the same, and cold be because tyre and wheel designers have improved the wheels rims ability to retain the tyre bead.

Secondly does the way they cause the blow out accurately mimic what happens in real life. And if not how would it be different and how would it affect the outcome.

Fundamentally the effectiveness of the bands relies on the tread remaining attached to both walls of the tyre. If either or both walls lets go, the tyre ceases to provide any directional stability to the vehicle.

As tyre fitters will tell you, a tyre that has suffered a 'blow out' rarely has a neat small bullet hole, its usually a ragged flap which extends for s significant arc of the tyres circumference. This is usually due to the tyre having been abused most commonly through under inflation. The lower pressure means the tyre walls have to flex more with each rotation. This generates excess heat in the side walls which degrades the wall material and construction. After enough punishment the wall has a weakened circular track in both side walls, and like a balloon if it ruptures at one point, the rupture propagates a tear which follows the weakened track. Continuing to run on a tyre with this damaged rapidly causes the tyre to further damage and de-lamination.

The manufactures video's show a small explosive charge acting on a very localised portion of tyre wall. This is entirely different to the more likely scenario above. The tyre will not have a weakened track, so there will be less propensity for the tyre wall to 'tear' further when the charge is exploded. it will therefore retain its tread for longer. This type of damage is very close to the effects of a tyre being shot, which is one of the reasons the band do find an application in military vehicles.

Now such demonstrations are scientifically unsound. The manufacturer should be publishing verifiable data that proves their claims. Think on, If the technology was as spectacularly good as the manufacture claims, why are there so few manufactures? By now everyone would be making and fitting them, insurance companies would be offering discounts, And the EU would have legislation in place. The absence of all these tell-tale signs points to the unproven case for bands.

If you feel the need to fit them to your caravan, then you should also be fitting them to your car as the 'perceived benefits' will be with every time you drive.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Do all tyre fitting companies know about and fit run flat tyres? Is that a choice you get when having a new for old tyre replaced? And are they more expensive?

Sorry whiz, But that's a question you will have to ask your chosen tyre fitting company. But Run Flats will almost certainly be more expensive, even if they are made in the size you want.
 
Mar 13, 2007
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Well said John, good post.(the one before last)
my objection to the senario put by Tyron is the gun shot type blow out, it is very unlikely in normal road usage, never mind the chance of a blowout of any kind, they are sold as a safety measure but that is not proven.
there is not even a statistic relating to the chance of an occurance, what with the ammout of vehicles on road,
I suspect this is very low may be one in a million, about the same as being struck by lightning. however one can be protected from this by wearing a Faraday cage, but you dont see many of those on sale.
 
Apr 14, 2014
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Hey, Ive learned something new lol. I now know who Michael Faraday was.

But thanks to Michael Faraday, the brilliant 19th-century scientist, and one of his namesake inventions, the Faraday cage, we humans have developed plenty of ways to control electricity and make it safer for our computers, cars and other inventions -- and for us, too. :)
 
Mar 13, 2007
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Lonesome-Whizkid said:
Hey, Ive learned something new lol. I now know who Michael Faraday was.

But thanks to Michael Faraday, the brilliant 19th-century scientist, and one of his namesake inventions, the Faraday cage, we humans have developed plenty of ways to control electricity and make it safer for our computers, cars and other inventions -- and for us, too. :)
you think he was good (he was) look up Nikola Tesla. now theres a genius.
 
Apr 14, 2014
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Interesting, Not heard of him before. Don't know why, As it stated he went to work for Edison.

In 1882, Tesla began working for the Continental Edison Company in France, designing and making improvements to electrical equipment.[39]

In June 1884, Tesla relocated to New York City.[40] During his trip across the Atlantic, his ticket, money, and some of his luggage were stolen, and he was nearly thrown overboard after a mutiny broke out on the ship.[41] He arrived with only four cents in his pocket, a letter of recommendation, a few poems, and the remainder of his belongings.

Got that off Wikipedia. Geez oh, this guy is a super brain. I'll need to look for an autobiography, The genius who lit the world
 

JTQ

May 7, 2005
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ProfJohnL said:
Hello Basingstoke,
By now everyone would be making and fitting them, insurance companies would be offering discounts, And the EU would have legislation in place. The absence of all these tell-tale signs points to the unproven case for bands.

The true facts however are different, my insurance company, the CC for example, does offer a discount for Tyron Bands!
Quite possibly they work their underwriting risk from the statistical facts relating to claims as all insurers do?
 

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