Motty: misleading advice

[OmOnWeelz]

In essence and in a far more eloquent way Philspadders has said the same as I was trying to say in my non techy way

Poster Lutz posted
"

OmOnWeelz wrote:

I have no idea about towball standards or when they came in to being and quite frankly I don't really care. I assume as a customer with modern day consumer protection that the tow hitches fitted by car maufacturers or their dealers are legal and comply with the required specs.

On the basis of your experience, that sounds like a dangerous assumption"

Could you please clarify your statement.
We have two cars with Tyres / Wheels / Lights and Horn. I understand that the car has been built to required standards along with the other parts that have to comply to various rules, regs and specifications and parts like tyres have a variety of official looking bits of info on them.
Our home is built to a "standard" my PC / TV / Kettle/ Radio/ Ipad / I phone/ Radio and a lot of our other home comforts are built to a variety of standards and have a variety of markings saying what they comply with.
Should we now be worried sick as we haved not 'geeked out' locating all the specs for our purchases and checked that they do comply and are actually built to the spec they claim?
We don't buy from back street or Del Boy market traders so why would we care about the the standards or when they came in to being?
I think we would be like all the other caravanners here, we buy tow cars, tow bars and caravans from reputable sources that sell goods built to the legal requirements. But as end users before hitting the road checking that all looks well and that nothing is likely to foul another part is good practice and good sense no matter what the specs or regs say

 

[Lutz]

I get your point, OmOnWeelz, and like you, I do my purchases hoping that they do meet legal requirements and specs, but I use the word "hoping" quite deliberately and not "assuming". Obviously, I can't check everything. In the case of products from most major manufacturers I can be reasonably sure that I can rely on their quality without worrying. However, over the years, I have come across some pretty frightening examples from lesser sources, and these are not all back street traders. Wherever I am able to judge whether a product is fit for the purpose I do so. If I don't have the necessary information, I am aware that there must always be some degree of risk. Then, depending on how critical the thing is what I'm buying I try to find out as much as possible to put my mind at ease beforehand, but I don't go to the supermarket to check whether the bananas are according to EU regulations.

In the case of towbars I do know that there are a number of sources, even some quite well known names, that claim to make a good product, but which is actually, to put it mildly, of questionable quality. Fortunately, I can benefit from experience gained on the job before I retired, so I've got the necessary background information to be able to judge. However, in the case of something as safety critical as a towbar, if I didn't have this knowledge and no-one around to advise me better, I would only purchase one which has been approved by the OEM. That's not saying that other sources may not be as good, but I have no way of being quite as sure.

Experience has made me very sceptical. Wool has been pulled over my eyes too often.

 

[Parksy]

In the latest PC, Motty gives advice to Roy Munford (page 99) who asks if he needs an Al-Ko towball for his new van which has an Al-KO stabiliser. Motty's advice is that you don't need the same make of tow-ball as stabiliser and then goes on about Mr Munford's outfit match; thereby missing out on the crucial piece of information and the whole point of the question. So, if you reading this Mr Roy Munford, No, you do not need an Al-Ko brand towball, but if you have a fixed towball you MUST get one with an extended neck if you have an Al-Ko stabiliser. An ordinary fixed towball without the extended neck can result in the hitch becoming unhitched. Have a look at the Al-Ko website or talk to a reputable car parts shop.

Come on Motty, wake up and answer the questions properly. They are not all just about outfit matches. I spotted this one and I am among the least technical on this forum.
mel

Mel's original post was pointing out that the advice given by Motty in the Practical Caravan Magazine might be considered to be misleading.
Since then the point of the topic has been obscured somewhat by technical discussions and EEC regulations.
The correct dimensions and specifications for towballs which are suitable for use with AlKo stabilisers can be found
Here
When buying a new towball for the purposes of towing a touring caravan fitted with an AlKo stabiliser the purchaser should buy a towball which is suitable for use with AlKo stabilisers.
Any reputable caravan accessory shop or towbar fitters will sell the suitable item and an enquiry before the purchase takes place will provide the correct result.

 

[Soozeeg]

It seems that too often a topic is hijacked by one or two posters who then go on to have a protracted points-scoring argument, neither wanting to give way, and thus taking away the focus and original point of the first poster.

 

[Parksy]

Forum members have every right to discuss topics on the forum Sue, those who agree with you stopped looking ages ago and moved on to something that they are more interested in.
The point and focus doesn't fade away because of a protracted debate, it's still visible on page one and I quoted it to clarify the situation and to reinforce the original point. There was nothing to stop anyone doing the same

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Sue,

I understand your point.

In most cases the OP’s question is answered fairly early on in such threads, but often as part of that response the information given may be flawed. In some cases the flaws may not be especially important, but in others it could lead to inappropriate actions that may have safety or legal consequences.

Where inaccurate information is given out whether deliberately or not, it is appropriate to inform/correct to help prevent dangerous or illegal actions

As far as I am concerned, I am not interested in scoring points, but I am in favour of establishing facts, and where necessary providing a technical description and reasons for supporting a particular point.

Points scoring usually degenerates towards personal abuse, and that’s when it becomes inappropriate.

If you do not wish to read the extended answers then you do not have to, but there are some readers who do gain from their content.

 

[Soozeeg]

I agree with you both, I don't have to read them, and as a matter of fact I don't actually read them........it's all over my head anyway. My point is that when it turns into discussions of a highly technical nature between (usually) just 2 or 3 members, and more often than not, not involving the OP, then perhaps it's time to move the discussion into the Technical section?

 

[Lutz]

Parksy has put it very well. Although a thread may, at times, seem to be going off at a tangent, it does so only for the reasons that John L mentioned. If the subject were moved into the Technical section than there would be even less chance of it returning to the original topic. Some issues need an in-depth discussion to clarify misunderstandings before everything can fall back into place again. I think Parksy did a good job.

 

[OmOnWeelz]

Thank you Lutz. We seem to agree,
My point here was that we were provided with a 2009 Disco3 ,70000 miles on the clock hire car with a tow ball that looked as though it had never been used.
We could have hitched our AlKo hitch to it and lost the van if it wasn't for a little knowlege and a visual check. A large hire company and a respected brand tow bar that seems to be a quality approved and proven product.
The issue for me is that another Disco owner could fit the inapproriate tow bar or someone with one decides to tow a caravan with a AlKo hitch. The specificartion and regulations are all fine but caravanners need to be aware that whatever they do, when buying new or using a different tow ball make sure it has plenty of clearance around it and under it especially if you are using the popular AlKo hitches.

 

[Soozeeg]

OK guys, I'll leave you to your 'discussions'

Perhaps we ought to have a women only section on here, which would (obviously!) be free from any technical stuff!! (said with tongue firmly in cheek

)

 

[Parksy]

Thanks for the feedback

The forum software doesn't support the moving of topics from one section to another and of course topics are akin to conversations, they can meander (well, mine do anyway) but at least we have a written record of the original point being made so it would never be lost or forgotten about.

This forum is widely regarded as one of the best caravan forums for technical information (backed up by proven facts) on the internet.
We are very fortunate to have forum members who are prepared to back up the technical information with proof rather than specualtion and although they sometimes disagree with each other they are never rude or aggressive toward each other or anyone else.
There are many who don't particularly want to read dry technical facts and this forum could be said to be somewhat lacking in the social and general interest department but the only way to address this would be for members to post more about the things that interest them personally such as hobbies, pets,childhood,favourite foods, cooking, hatches, matches and dispatches or whatever

It is important to continue to debate the facts as well though, we've learned that besides the necessity of AlKo towballs always being used where AlKo stabilisers are in use the overall standard of towballs can vary so it would be best to buy an AlKo towball that complies with the EC 94/20 (Din 74058) standard (or directive), in fact AlKo insist on it.
Those of us without a technical background now know what to look out for on the box at least, and if we can spout a bit of technical information gleaned from the forum here and there we might avoid being ripped off now and again.