Good morning, this is my first post so hello to all fellow caravaners out there. I am looking for some advice on towing weights please and would be grateful for some help/observations. After motorhoming for 5 years I have just reverted back to caravaning and bought a new Lunar with an MTPLM of 1355kgs. My towcar, a Ford Kuga has a kerbweight of 1584Kgs which at 85.5% is comparable to the recommended limit of 85%. However, I have fastidiously weighed all the equipment I will be hoping to take, spliting the total into items I anticipate taking in the car and caravan, and find that the totals are 92.5Kg in car, but 176.85Kg in the caravan. With a payload of 159Kg this means that I will be over the permitted MTPLM by 18Kgs. I would empahsise that the caravan contents are what I would consider to be the basic essentials needed and when I take the grandchildren this weight may well be more!. From reading other forums it would appear that many caravaners ignore the MTPLM guidelines but I strongly believe that safe towing is all about safe loading/weights,etc., Can anyone give me any advice please? Also, is there any way that caravan manufacturers could be made to recognise that this is a problem and in some way increase the payload limits during manufacture ( any comment Doug?). Thanks to everyone.
MTPLM/equipment weights
- Thread starter backwoodsman
- Start date
Hi Backswoodman and welcome to the forum. I don't thing you will find any support on this forum for exceeding the MTPLM so what I would suggest is reconsider what goes in the van and what in the car. I probably split more like 50/50 in weight, maily because virtually anything that fits outside goes in the car. The main thing is the awning of course with associated pegs, groundsheets, etc. Also ramps, jacks, picnic table,bike, dog food cans and sacks etc. I also carry in the car the large quantities of liquid refreshment required, wine, tonic , soft drinks which are usually around 1kg each!
Manufacturers are caught between a rock and hard place really, they want to advertise a low MTPLM so the van is tuggable by smaller cars, many however will provide an upgraded capacity with a new plate (for a small fee of course).
Manufacturers are caught between a rock and hard place really, they want to advertise a low MTPLM so the van is tuggable by smaller cars, many however will provide an upgraded capacity with a new plate (for a small fee of course).
The 85% weight ratio recommendation is only advisory and many choose to ignore the guideline. However, to exceed the MTPLM would be illegal. Your only option if you don't want to leave any equipment at home would be to put more in the car so that you stay within the 1355kg at all costs.
Some manufacturers do offer uprated MTPLM's, either as a factory-fitted option or as a retrofitted weight plate. Note that an uprated MTPLM will, amongst other things, require the axle rating that is high enough to cover the increase. If the axle rating is already close on the exisitng limit, the caravan may require a new axle before it can be given a new weight plate. This is obviously a rather expensive option. If you're lucky, the axle has a large enough margin of safety and you may get by with just the administrative cost of issueing a new weight plate. Of course, the tyre load rating must also be checked, as well.
Some manufacturers do offer uprated MTPLM's, either as a factory-fitted option or as a retrofitted weight plate. Note that an uprated MTPLM will, amongst other things, require the axle rating that is high enough to cover the increase. If the axle rating is already close on the exisitng limit, the caravan may require a new axle before it can be given a new weight plate. This is obviously a rather expensive option. If you're lucky, the axle has a large enough margin of safety and you may get by with just the administrative cost of issueing a new weight plate. Of course, the tyre load rating must also be checked, as well.
I sympathise with you as I too feel UK payloads have been sacrificed to keep MTPLM down as German vans seem to have better payloads. We had our Bailey upgraded at new as the range had heavier models on the same chassis and axle. So it was a paper work excercise and all I had to do was fix the new load plate to the van and in our case buy two higher load index tyres. We now have 250kg but even so I agree with the above posts and try and carry the heavy stuff in the car. So awning kit, all non perishable food, tool bag jack etc go in the car. When we have the granddaughter and dogs everything gets cut down to the minimum as the volume in the car is reduced. To organise my weights I use a spreadsheet with sections for various holiday types ie long weekend UKwinter, 4,weeks abroad etc.
See if your manufacturer does an upgrade that doesn't involve major hardware changes.
See if your manufacturer does an upgrade that doesn't involve major hardware changes.
Thank you everyone for that sound advice. From your remarks, it is obvious that I shall have to go back to the drawing board and transfer more gear to the boot(and roof box)to remain legal. As mentioned, I am new to the forum and posted a reply earlier which "got lost" somewhere so apologies if you get 2 replies!
Don't forget that most car manufacturers have a load limit specified for roof boxes, too. Often it is 70kg.backwoodsman said:
backwoodsman said:
Hi backwoodsman,
I concur with the previous replies, but I would also like to offer some other points regarding weights/loads, especially as it seems you are working very close to the legal load limits of your caravan.
It is obviously the case that your caravans load capacity is the difference between the MTPLM and the unladen weight of the caravan.
From the figures you have given, the MTPLM is 1355kg and the load margin is 156kg some simple sums and the MIRO is 1199kg - Or is it?
No manufacture can be that precise as to the unladen weight of the caravan. Manufacturing tolerances and some other factors including the level of humidity at the time measuring means there can be some variations in the ULW.
You need to bear in mind that ULW plus Payload must never exceed the MTPLM, so if the ULW is high by 10kg then the payload capacity must reduce by 10kg to maintain the MTPLM.
The only way of knowing for certain is to weigh the caravan.
Similarly The method you are using to check your payload weights can have an error:- Its well know effect that in industry that weighing all the individual component parts of a product and summing the values often produces a different result to weighing the whole complete product Small differences in calibrations, readings and tolerances conspire to produce differences. So whilst looking at the individual weights will give you a good idea of the weights its worth checking the whole package.
The Bottom line is the MTPLM, so load your van to the best of your ability then get the whole caravan weighed to check you are within the MTPLM, and adjust your loading accordingly.
I agree with Prof Johns comments in my 2005 Bailey Owners Manual it states that the MIRO or ex works weight could vary by +- 5% due to manufacturing variations (humidity, changes to outfit equipment, tyre types, build process and detail changes etc) which is +-50kg per 1000 kg. Of these moisture may then vary after manufacture so the van could get lighter or heavier and could vary over time. But this is something that cannot be controlled so when we got our van I weighed it all kitted out in late March on the assumption that during summer it may be a bit lighter. Since then with our summers I guess weighing it in August might have been better (LOL). Seriously though there is only so much under your control and weighing your kitted out van is the best place to start, but keep an eye on the cars gross weight. I'd take the kitted out car to the weighebridge too so you can then be sure that the car load is within spec and GTW is too.
backwoodsman said:
Simple advice is to contact your dealer or Lunar and ask them if the MTPLM can be upgraded. If you are within the train weight of the vehicle and the tyre load is not exceeded, then you should be okay, but not advisable to exceed MTPLM. Hopefully you have a B+E riving licence.
Surfer there's no reason why the tyre load cannot be raised by fitting higher Load Index tyres, all other things being within spec and limits. When my Bailey was weight upgraded the OEM tyres were rated at 1420kg max weight for both tyres, the van MTPLM was 14000kg so although the tyres were legally within spec I fitted two higher Load Index tyres just for my own peace of mind. I know tyers have built in margins and UK van speeds are well below the tyres rated speed etc but Im pernickety when it comes to tyres as they are all thats between me and an unwanted event!!
Thanks again everyone for those comments. It really does appear to be a bit of a minefield which I am very keen to be on the legal side of. As there appear to be so many differentials in this weighing game, I concur that the best thing to do is get the whole outfit weighed at a weighbridge. With regard to the roof box comment, my intention was to put just the "awning part" weighing in at 20kg on top which would be well withing the 75lb specified. This would even out the load across the vehicle rather than putting this extra weight on the towbar by loading it in the boot. And yes, I have the required driving licence covering me for the outfit involved but thanks for reminding me!
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