MTPLM of Caravan.

turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

There is much confusing and contradicting information regarding this subject, caravan club website, AA etc. My car has a low towing limit of 1300kg, but a generous gross train of 3400kg. My caravan has a MTPLM of 1306kg. Several websites suggest I am not allowed to tow this caravan. This is nonsense. Provided I keep the actual laden mass of caravan on or below 1300kg I am legal. My company car is a 44ton, 6 axle, articulated ADR chemical tanker. Many trailers I use in my line of work have technicaly permissible plated weights many tons in excess of max gross train weight of 44tons, but obviously are not laden up to these limits. The MTPLM of a caravan is the absolute maximum the caravan can be loaded to and not a limit as to the towing limit of the car.

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WoodlandsCamper · Jun 30, 2015

turnerw said:
Provided I keep the actual laden mass of caravan on or below 1300kg I am legal.

No you're not. It's what is on the plate that defines legality.

turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

I beg to differ. If that were the case, then almost every empty articulated HGV on the road would be illegally towing its trailer because every HGV trailer has a MTPLM on its plate way in excess of the tractor units legal towing limit. Today I spoke to a senior VOSA officer who assured me I was correct, they would only prosecute car/caravan for being over on gross train, or over weight on ACTUAL LADEN MASS (what caravan weighs on weighbridge), not theoretical technical weights. Its the same as being prosecuted for speeding in a stationary car just because its capable of exceeding the speed limit. Please can you provide any details of successful prosecutions for a car towing in this situation.

WoodlandsCamper · Jun 30, 2015

Why did you come on the forum as a 1st time poster to start an argument?
I have nothing further to say.

turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

Awfully sorry old chap, last thing on my mind was to start an argument, not my intention at all. I do wish to hear other peoples experience as I believe many people are confused with misinformation about perfectly good tow cars. More attention has to be paid to loading. My car has a very generous GTW but low towing weight. All I do is load awning etc in roof box. Tows like a dream.

Sproket · Jun 30, 2015

You say that you have a generous gross train of 3400kg out of that you say that your van is 1306kg ...

Out of curiosity what is your mass in service for your car ?
Also what do the figures say on the plate under the bonnet ?

turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

Unfortunately car is 2010 renault grand scenic 1.9 dci. GTW 3470 MPM 2170 MIS 1615. Towing limit 1300 well below 85% ratio. Towing limit is about hill starts on an incline (eu directive). I paid 9k for car 14 months old. 13k less than brand new price. I know previous renault dci had problems with con rods and crankshafts but I reckon at this price what I save on fuel etc from previous cars I can scrap this after 4 years and still be up financialy. My previous car 4x4 shogun was like a mortgage with the fuel it used. I am a Yorkshireman and have a severe allergic reaction to wasting cash.

Sproket · Jun 30, 2015

So you have with those figures it gives 555kg max load, as you know that takes into account the weight of the fuel you put in the vehicle .... now say for instance you have four well built adults in as well at 100kg each.... Not a lot of payload left .... and there's the roof box weight
If there are only two of you ... room for some more gear.

With my Isuzu my GVW is 2900kg with a max train weight of 5400kg my van's MTPLM is 1600kg ( max towing weight 2500kg ) with the van fully loaded and the truck loaded the same my max comes in at 4500kg still 900kg below my plated max GTW ( for a long holiday we weigh in at 4200kg ) that's checked at the Vosa Dynamic weigh bridge near to J27 M62 , but i can't use any of that 900kg that is left from my train weight

but there is spare kg's left to be had before I get to 4500kg

turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

Wifey is about 6 stone soaking wet. I am 90kg plus two waif like kids. I have about 250kg spare. I dont want to sound **** sure but to give you some perspective of what I do day to day, not just on holiday. The gross of my rig is 44ton. It tares at 15.5 ton. Load is any hazardous chemical around 28ton net. But remember this is a live liquid load. When I hit the anchors I still have 28ton of liquid that still wants to go forwards at 56mph. You have to experience it to appreciate it.

Sproket · Jun 30, 2015

Oh yes i understand all about chemicals and transporting liquid loads, I used to work at ICI @ Huddersfield many moons ago.

What you have got to remember is that these website's that you put your vehicle & caravan into are only as good as the person who has collated all of that information and made the program.

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turnerw · Jun 30, 2015

Too true mate. That is the reason for my post. Out there somewhere will be a guy worrying himself sick he is not legal, just because he has a low tow limit on his car. Lots of young families take up caravaning as a cheaper means of getting their kids on holiday. These people should get all our help, and advice and no unnecessary obsticles placed in there way.

ProfJohnL · Jul 1, 2015

Hello TurnerW

I do not claim to know all about the loading for lorries, but I do have a lot of experience with cars and caravans. What you posted at the top of the thread is essentially true. In terms of tow vehicles provide the actual weight in tow is less than the specification for the tow vehicle, then all should be well. But whilst that might be the legal situation there are a few other aspects which can change that stance.

You mention that you have a Renault. Renault are one manufacture that has been quite sneaky in the way they set their maximum towing limits. I have a W plate Grande Espace 2.2dT. Its maximum rated tow is 1700kg but I can only tow that amount if the car is empty and only has the driver in it. If I load 300kg load in the car my towed weight has to drop by the same amount. I suggest you review your own towing weights as you have a Renault.

The second car related factor is one of safet towing. UNlike lorries where the position of the fifth wheel is located within the wheelbase of the tractor unit, caravans are towed with a an overhanging tow bar. This is inherently an inferior system compared to HGV's and is prone to windage effects that can start to unsettle the trailer and the car. Caravans are by comparison to the cars that normally tow them much bigger, and they can far more easily upset the car than say a low sided trailer. Consequently caravans are considered to be difficult trailers. It therefore makes sense keep a caravan as small as is reasonably possible. The industry have made recommendations of caravans weight not exceeding 85% of the cars ULW. This wa simplified to Trailer MTPLM

turnerw · Jul 1, 2015

I know renault in particular used to publish in their handbooks, towing weights for 'driver only' in car. Put one passenger in and the car wasnt allowed to pull your socks off. As far as I am aware they stopped printing this statement in handbooks around 2008. They still have notoriously low tow limits though which I believe are based on a series of hill start tests. Tow limits are set way below 85%. Cars with similar kerb weights from other makers have higher tow limits.

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