MTPLM

[ProfAlGoogle]

Hopefully this link will clarify UK law as regards the towing of trailers for those who may be confused by the now closed thread.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/info_trailers.pdf

 

[Lutz]

The link that you refer to is not the law, but an information sheet.
It must have been written by someone who made the same error as you in your train of thought. I suppose I'll have to get in touch with the Department for Transport now as well, because that information sheet definitely contains false information. Now please go back to bed until I get them sorted out.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

The link that you refer to is not the law, but an information sheet.
It must have been written by someone who made the same error as you in your train of thought. I suppose I'll have to get in touch with the Department for Transport now as well, because that information sheet definitely contains false information. Now please go back to bed until I get them sorted out.

No Lutz, read it again it actually supports what you are saying, look at section 6 coupling devices (towbars) read back through the original post all that I am saying is that my own choice is that I would not add the ball pressure back to the trailer IE, 1800 minus 75kg = 1725 at the axle + 75kg brings it back to 1800kg, but once detached from the towing vehicle returns to 1875, now IMHO i consider that a grey area and would rather stick at 1800kg for peace of mind, but I concur that what you are quoting is correct............................................................

..................... Hand shake lol

 

[Lutz]

I agree that the footnote on Page 3 conflicts with the second paragraph of Section 1 (Weights) and I have already written to the DfT to ask them to amend their text referring to the calculation of gross train weight.

 

[Surfer]

Not sure why the othe thread was clsoed. There is a difference of opinion, but it never resorted violence or such like sot he questio n stil remaisn open. Who is right and who is wrong? Lutz's interpretation may be right or wrong, but that si nto what counts. What counts is when your trailer is dragged onto a weigh bridge and weighed. End of!

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi Lutz. I hope that you do not get the same person that I attempted to communicate with (by E-mail) regarding the ambiguous & contradictory nature of one of their own documents After several E-mails and returns of same by me with a counter comment I gave up on it. My query was jointly about the licenses for new drivers and as of 1st January 1997 and weight issues linked to the rules.
One could easily be forgiven for thinking that the person had just entered Junior School or had been seconded from a totally unrelated department within the corridors of government,probably an Apprentice Pencil Sharpener at the Stationary Office.

 

[Lutz]

Let's wait and see how the DfT react and how competent the reply will be.
By the way, regarding the communication with Volvo, I first wrote to Volvo UK, but when they saw that I have a German email address they no longer considered themselves responsible and suggested I contact their international headquarters in Sweden. I therefore re-sent the email to them. I suppose I'll have to wait a bit longer for a reply now.

 

[xtrailman]

Sorry chaps, just got back from holiday today.
So was unable to thank the 100 plus who debated on the locked topic.
Having read some 95 posts, i'm puzzled as to why its locked??
Just when i thought this site was dead, it appears that lively debate is still possible, but apparently, not for long.

So it appears i have confused the maximum trailer weight, with MPTLM.
I knew the nose weight could be deducted, but now understand not from the allowed MPTLM.
As the xtrail has a braked trailer limit of 2200kg, towing 1600kg is not a problem, legally.

As suggested i will transfer more weight to the car, and try to get the rig onto a weigh bridge.
I didn't think that the OP would have provoked so much interest!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello and welcome back Ray, Ihope you holiday has recharged your batteries.

As a comment to some of the later posts:

I don't think the weighbridge is the arbiter in these matters. It's only a tool that produces data, and that data may change depending on what procedures are used to weigh the elements of the outfit.

What is in question in this debate is how that information can be interpreted. Several contributors have reported different ways they have measured their outfits, so from the consumers point of view it is far from a fixed done and dusted procedure.

I believe the regulations concerning towing weights/load and masses are adequate to identify all the necessary criteria for assessing outfits, But I do recognise they are quite complex.

There are issues in a number of documents where technically inappropriate units are used for describing some aspects of outfits, such as the cross-usage of mass and weight in descriptions of criteria which every scientist (and I hope mechanical engineer)will recognise are different, the use of Kg which is a unit of mass not weight, and other anomalies which leads to misunderstanding some of the the more complex issues.

Ultimately if matters are not made clearer, at some point the either governments towing regulations or the methods used to assess them are likely to be tested in court.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Now Now John "the use of Kg which is a unit of mass not weight" Totally confused now, just got back from my local Morrison's and amongst my shopping was a 10kg mass of spuds! lol (tongue in cheek)

Allan.

 

[Lutz]

Yes, it is rather confusing. The kilopond or kilogramme force is an unofficial unit, but which is still widely used by the public (as in your 10kg of spuds). It is equal to the force of gravity acting on a mass of 1 kg.
Because it is so easy to confuse kilogramme force with kilogramme mass, scientists and engineers use the Newton as the official unit of force and the term 'kilogramme' only in relation to mass. The Newton is defined as the force required to accelerate a mass of 1kg by 1m/s².
Hence, a kilogramme force is equal to 9.80665 Newtons (because standard gravitational acceleration is 9.80665 m/s²)

 

[Parksy]

For those querying why the previous topic on this subject was locked I briefly gave the reason in the final post. To further elaborate, the reason was that the main participants couldn't agree and the subject matter was becoming lost because of seemingly irreconcilable disagreement.
Argument for arguments sake brings nothing to the forum and lively debate is possible on this forum but when it ceases to be a debate and degenerates into meaningless squabbling it's time to draw stumps and start on something more constructive which is what has now happened.
Those who took part in the debate and who held different viewpoints had already stated that they would post no more so they had obviously had enough of it themselves anyway.