my consumer rights for nightmare New Compass 505

[gimli]

Does anyone have experience or knowledge about successful efforts to achieve a full refund, including recinding finance agreement, under Sale of Goods Act.

SInce we collected our new van on 5th July we have had nothing but failures....

flooded shower unit; faulty alarm; faulty mains tripping our electric, the dealers electric, and losing us all freezer food at home; very scratched and broken tables..all this on firat trip.

Second brief trip, faulty water pump so no water on trip.Oven falling out of housing.

The dealer checked out the intermittent electric fault reckoned it was down to the fridge conection somehow.

Lo and behold the fridge has now proven to have an intermittent power problem.

All this the dealer wants to cal 'teething problems and snags'

2 filed trips, lots of hassle and complete loss of faith in the caravan and the dealer, we have written demanding a full refund. Guess what the dealer doesnt think we have a case and the finance company are with him.

We have since sent a solicvitors letter, but no response as yet.

Before we go fully down the legal route can anyone out there provide hard info on cases wghere the customer has managed to win their case.

I just cannot bear the thought of being stuck with an expensive 'Friday afternoon job' with every holiday being ruined due to an endless list of faults and a dealer with whom there is no chance of a good relationship now.

Also if anyone has experienced similar problems with this make and model do tell!

Thanks. Nuala

 

[Damian]

Nuala, you NEED to get expert help in this matter.

As it sounds from your posting you have good grounds under the Sale of Goods and Services Act for a full refund, as the van is, from your description, unfit for the purpose.

Here is the Act, in part:

While laws concerning sale of goods date back 100 years, the only phrase you need to memorise is 'The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)'.

The 'as amended' is important because it refers to laws which have extended the basic 1979 Act and using the phrase tells the trader that not only do you know basic consumer law, you know it has been amended too.

The Sale of Goods Act lays down several conditions that all goods sold by a trader must meet.

The goods must be:

* as described

* of satisfactory quality

* fit for purpose

As described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader.

Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time. But it doesn't give you any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out to you at point of sale.

Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but any purpose you queried and were given assurances about by the trader.

If you buy something which doesn't meet these conditions, you have the potential right to return it, get a full refund, and if it will cost you more to buy similar goods elsewhere, compensation (to cover the extra cost) too.

Note, however, that the right to reject goods and get a full refund only lasts for a relatively short time after which a buyer is deemed to have 'accepted' goods. This doesn't mean that the buyer has not legal redress against the seller, just that he/she isn't entitled to a full refund.

Instead a buyer is first and foremost entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced.

If these remedies are inappropriate, then you're entitled to a suitable price reduction, or to return the goods and get a refund (reduced to take account of any wear and tear).

The act covers second-hand items and sales. But if you buy privately, your only entitlement to your money back is if the goods aren't 'as described'.

If goods which are expected to last six months don't, it'll be presumed that the goods didn't conform to the contract at the time they were bought, unless the seller can prove to the contrary.

In all other situations, it's for the consumer to prove their own case (that is, that the problem existed at the time of the contract). This will prove more difficult the longer you've had the goods. Subject to this, a consumer has six years from the time they buy something in which to make a claim.

Back to top

In Lifestyle

Watchdog

Watchdog reports

How to complain

Elsewhere on bbc.co.uk

How you can influence new UK laws

One Life: legal

Community legal service

Elsewhere on the web

Trading Standards

Office of Fair Trading

Citizens Advice Bureau

The BBC is not responsible for content on external websites

and here is the Business side of it:

The Sale of Goods Act

Introduction

The Sale of Goods Act is the main piece of law helping buyers to obtain redress when their purchases go wrong. It is in the interest of anyone who sells goods or services to understand the implications of the Act for them and the responsibilities they have under it.

Essentially, the Act states that what you sell must fit its description, be fit for its purpose and be of satisfactory quality. If not, you - as the supplier - are obliged to sort out the problem.

Aside from the legal issues, it makes sense to comply with the requirements of the Act in order to build customer relationships.

This guide explains the Act and how to deal properly with complaints made under it.

There is more here;

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?r.l2=1074400662&r.l1=1073861169&r.s=tl&topicId=1074027367
which explains what the Dealer MUST do

I would print out the Acts as relating to you, the purchaser, and the Acts as relating to the Business, and go to him , place the info on his desk, and demand he complies with the law.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Nuala

Your tale of woe is quite disturbing, and I wish you luck. I must stress that I am not a lawyer, but I have been involved in some claims for refunds.

There have been occasions where a caravanner has successfuly obtained a refund for what was a bad caravan, but often these settlments are arrived at out of court.

To attract a full refund the caravan will have to be unusable and or potentially dangerous, either resulting from some fault on a structural part, or through a design weakness.

Looking at your list, non of the items that have occured render the caravan unusable, and most can quite satisfactorily be repaired, without loosing functionality or apperance.

To be honest I do not think that a full refund is likely. However I think that the inconvenience you have suffered and the loss of holiday may be a different issue. As you have already consulted a soliciter, I should be guided by them as to what you can realistically expect and which way to go.

Sadly we dont have 'lemon' laws yet in the UK

 

[Guest]

Well according to what I've seen in the past few days here. Your problems are unsubstantiated and you could have a vendetta with the dealer.

You've mentioned the brand of van so do not be surprised to find that the mods or PC mamagement have binned your posting here.

Another member here was upset about alleged problems with "some goods" and "certain parties" in a sales business. But threat of legal action prevents a lot of help and suggestions being made here.

I had a lovely email from a moderator explaining why post had been removed. I suggest you concentrate on getting good legal help rather than think you will be afforded much help here.

Suggest you read posts about removed threads etc and make sure you do not rock the PC advertisers gravy boat.

Good luck, it sounds as though you need it.

 

[Viking1]

Nuala

If it's a help

If you are a member of the Caravan Club they got a legal help line. That you can phone.

Look on the back of your card.

Mark

 

[gimli]

thankyou to all who have repied to my plea for help on seeking refund for my faulty caravan.

My solicitor has simply sent a letter estating our demand for full refund and is awaiting a response.

I am concerned that the fact they did repair the first items, though left an unknown query as to why the fridge connectioinb seemed to trip their power, jeopardises our rights.

When they came out to see the second return problem re the lfaulty water pump I was explicit that I was not accepting their efforts as sufficient redress and handed them my first letter in response.

Since all this, though we have not used the van, we have noticed an intermittent elctric supply problem to the fridge.

We just received a letter from the finance company who state that they are happy with the dealers response and will not recind the finance agreement.

I dont know where I stand as regards my complete lack of faith in the van construction and fit; nor my lack of trust in the dealer.

Any intermittent electrical failure can be a nightmare to prove or test and they may see it as our word against theirs.

Also I am incensed that I should have to accept goods which were clearly so poorly fitted and inspected and which basically I cannot trust to be fit for purpose.

The dealer in his letter offered to send an engineer to check the van thoroughly for any other failures, but this will not reassure me.I really want to be rid of the whole thing rather than risk years of faults and poor relationship with the dealer.

I do not know how the sale of goods act would be interpreted in my case.

Meanwhile the summer holiday passes and I cant use them.

Sorry I am rambling.

My question I guess is whether i am likely to succeed in this case or do I risk spending a lot more time and moey and stress chasing a result through courts and goodness knows what else?

Thanks again to all who have responded so far and again if you can point me at any successful cases in the past It would help me formulate my own case.

Thanks

 

[gimli]

Nuala, you NEED to get expert help in this matter.

As it sounds from your posting you have good grounds under the Sale of Goods and Services Act for a full refund, as the van is, from your description, unfit for the purpose.

Here is the Act, in part:

While laws concerning sale of goods date back 100 years, the only phrase you need to memorise is 'The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)'.

The 'as amended' is important because it refers to laws which have extended the basic 1979 Act and using the phrase tells the trader that not only do you know basic consumer law, you know it has been amended too.

The Sale of Goods Act lays down several conditions that all goods sold by a trader must meet.

The goods must be:

* as described

* of satisfactory quality

* fit for purpose

As described refers to any advert or verbal description made by the trader.

Satisfactory quality covers minor and cosmetic defects as well as substantial problems. It also means that products must last a reasonable time. But it doesn't give you any rights if a fault was obvious or pointed out to you at point of sale.

Fit for purpose covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but any purpose you queried and were given assurances about by the trader.

If you buy something which doesn't meet these conditions, you have the potential right to return it, get a full refund, and if it will cost you more to buy similar goods elsewhere, compensation (to cover the extra cost) too.

Note, however, that the right to reject goods and get a full refund only lasts for a relatively short time after which a buyer is deemed to have 'accepted' goods. This doesn't mean that the buyer has not legal redress against the seller, just that he/she isn't entitled to a full refund.

Instead a buyer is first and foremost entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced.

If these remedies are inappropriate, then you're entitled to a suitable price reduction, or to return the goods and get a refund (reduced to take account of any wear and tear).

The act covers second-hand items and sales. But if you buy privately, your only entitlement to your money back is if the goods aren't 'as described'.

If goods which are expected to last six months don't, it'll be presumed that the goods didn't conform to the contract at the time they were bought, unless the seller can prove to the contrary.

In all other situations, it's for the consumer to prove their own case (that is, that the problem existed at the time of the contract). This will prove more difficult the longer you've had the goods. Subject to this, a consumer has six years from the time they buy something in which to make a claim.

Back to top

In Lifestyle

Watchdog

Watchdog reports

How to complain

Elsewhere on bbc.co.uk

How you can influence new UK laws

One Life: legal

Community legal service

Elsewhere on the web

Trading Standards

Office of Fair Trading

Citizens Advice Bureau

The BBC is not responsible for content on external websites

and here is the Business side of it:

The Sale of Goods Act

Introduction

The Sale of Goods Act is the main piece of law helping buyers to obtain redress when their purchases go wrong. It is in the interest of anyone who sells goods or services to understand the implications of the Act for them and the responsibilities they have under it.

Essentially, the Act states that what you sell must fit its description, be fit for its purpose and be of satisfactory quality. If not, you - as the supplier - are obliged to sort out the problem.

Aside from the legal issues, it makes sense to comply with the requirements of the Act in order to build customer relationships.

This guide explains the Act and how to deal properly with complaints made under it.

There is more here;

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?r.l2=1074400662&r.l1=1073861169&r.s=tl&topicId=1074027367
which explains what the Dealer MUST do

I would print out the Acts as relating to you, the purchaser, and the Acts as relating to the Business, and go to him , place the info on his desk, and demand he complies with the law.

thanks for all the advce and links to examine. Ive acted on this and realise that the issue is going to be around the term 'acceptance'. I am wondering if the fact that the dealer repaired many of the initial faults, without me being aware of my rights, though I made clear my rejection of any repairs after the second trip, will make it impossible for me to demand refund.

The fact that there is an intermittent problem on the fridge may be my saviour but who knows.

Do you know how 'acceptance' is determined?

Thanks again

Gimli

 

[Moderator2_5083849]

There is no more information which can be given regarding this topic, as it is now in legal hands.

Your complaint is with the Dealer, and it would be wrong for any further comment on this site, which may give you false hopes,or be totally inaccurate, legally.

Any other users replies wil be purely heresay, and not the basis on which you should, or could rely.

You have engaged a Solicitor, he is the only person you should be talking to now.

This topic is therefore closed.