my gas water heater project

[scarrabri]

Hi know i should not really be on your site because i own a Romahome,but i find this site full of imformation,and love reading about good ideas and gadgets ,so i hope no one minds,i have the Honda acty romahome,the romahome which is a demountable is quite old but the honda is a2002 model,a few months ago i thought wouldnt it be nice to have hot and cold running water and maybe a shower lol,if you have ever been in a romahome,theres not enough room to hang your socks,but i love mine lol ,my American friends really made me more determend to have a go at installing it after saying they have larger places to store there shoes,so here goes i have sent a youtube link to show a little about my project or if any one is thinking of gas water heaters,

Hi i have installed the excel gas water heater ,which i imported from a company called excelamerica,because it was coming from America i had to pay £35 import duty,and the cost of the excel gas water heater was £144 ,i has already bought the water pump which was a shureflow 1.85gpm/7lpm amps 4.5/12vdc and 20psi which was enough to run this gas heater,i had fitted micro switch taps both sink taps and a whale shower mixer tap which i had bought off ebay for £18 but having fitted these i realised i should have fitted a pressure switch,so i could control the water at the shower head this being a on/off trigger, you need this to save water,and the pump needs to shut off every time you turn the shower head off, the pressure switch i bought was £23 from Northstaffs caravans was a whale one ,now you may ask why go to the trouble of importing this gas water heater ,well after reading about it ,it was very safe,it cuts out if any thing is wrong ,it will supply limitless amount of hot water straight away,no nead to wait for a tank to warm up because it does not have one ,it has no vent ,but i have fitted a exstractor fan just to be on the safe side, all i can say is the gas water heater which is an excel from excelamerica if you want to read up on ,it is amazing at what it does ,i nead to buy more aquarolls now lol Brian

here is a youtube slide show i made to give you some idea of the project best wishes Brian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihNlopOiyx8

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Briant.

From the information you have supplied and the pictures on Youtube, it seem that what you have fitted is an instantaneous water heater with an open flue.

This is actually illegal in the UK as open flued devices have been outlawed in caravans on grounds of safety.

The product is not available in the UK becasue it does not carry the CE approval required for any gas appliance to be sold new in the UK

Such devices have relatively high gas consumption rates and thus put out a lot of flue product. This is very bad news in the small confined spaces of caravans and motorhomes.

I note you have added additional ventilation, but this still does not comply with current Uk and EU regs.

 

[scarrabri]

Hello Briant.

From the information you have supplied and the pictures on Youtube, it seem that what you have fitted is an instantaneous water heater with an open flue.

This is actually illegal in the UK as open flued devices have been outlawed in caravans on grounds of safety.

The product is not available in the UK becasue it does not carry the CE approval required for any gas appliance to be sold new in the UK

Such devices have relatively high gas consumption rates and thus put out a lot of flue product. This is very bad news in the small confined spaces of caravans and motorhomes.

I note you have added additional ventilation, but this still does not comply with current Uk and EU regs.

Hi Thankyou for your comments i will certainly see in to this matter as excelamerica are selling the gas heaters on the English market as follows

vent-free does not require flue exhaust

safety thermocouple and overheat shut off protection

csa approved ods tehnology (oxygen depletion sensor]

ods sensor protects from co hazard

csa approved ods device certificate

1111411

20min automatic shut off ideal for small apartments ,boats sail boats motorhomes campers rv,s

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Brian,

Clearly you are proud of the installation of the Excel water heater, and the pictures suggest it has been fitted well. Thank you for telling us who the manufacturer is. 'Excelamerica' is almost certainly based in the far east, and produces products aimed at the USA and South American markets. This is reinforced by the spread of their named sales and service centres, who are notable absent from the EU.

I have reviewed the web site and nowhere does it make any reference to the European sales market for their products. Equally there is no reference to the CE certification that is a prerequisite for the sale of any gas appliance within the EU and including the UK. I conclude from this, that the products have not been approved for the EU market.

The appliance is claimed to have CSA approvals, which is generally recognised as a leading standards body, but sadly the the CE and CSA do not see eye to eye on certain issues, and flue less gas appliances for use in recreational and holiday accommodations is one such conflict.

Inherently the Oxygen Depletion Sensor, (ODS) is a major step forward in gas appliance safety in small accommodations, but despite its function, the EU regulators will still not allow flue-less water heaters in caravans or holiday homes - or normal domestic environments. (remember the old ASCOT Geysers often fitted in bathrooms in the 1940 through to the 1970's and now outlawed for good reason)

As the product is not CE approved whoever fitted it has contravened the Gas Safety, Installation and Use Regulations by simply fitting it.

The chances are you will not have any un-toward experiences, but if a gas compliance certificate is requested for any reason it will fail because the appliance is not CE approved. In the event that you do have an incident that you call on your insurers to cover, they may not be happy with unapproved appliance and may resist the claim.

 

[scarrabri]

Hello again Brian,

Clearly you are proud of the installation of the Excel water heater, and the pictures suggest it has been fitted well. Thank you for telling us who the manufacturer is. 'Excelamerica' is almost certainly based in the far east, and produces products aimed at the USA and South American markets. This is reinforced by the spread of their named sales and service centres, who are notable absent from the EU.

I have reviewed the web site and nowhere does it make any reference to the European sales market for their products. Equally there is no reference to the CE certification that is a prerequisite for the sale of any gas appliance within the EU and including the UK. I conclude from this, that the products have not been approved for the EU market.

The appliance is claimed to have CSA approvals, which is generally recognised as a leading standards body, but sadly the the CE and CSA do not see eye to eye on certain issues, and flue less gas appliances for use in recreational and holiday accommodations is one such conflict.

Inherently the Oxygen Depletion Sensor, (ODS) is a major step forward in gas appliance safety in small accommodations, but despite its function, the EU regulators will still not allow flue-less water heaters in caravans or holiday homes - or normal domestic environments. (remember the old ASCOT Geysers often fitted in bathrooms in the 1940 through to the 1970's and now outlawed for good reason)

As the product is not CE approved whoever fitted it has contravened the Gas Safety, Installation and Use Regulations by simply fitting it.

The chances are you will not have any un-toward experiences, but if a gas compliance certificate is requested for any reason it will fail because the appliance is not CE approved. In the event that you do have an incident that you call on your insurers to cover, they may not be happy with unapproved appliance and may resist the claim.

Hi John i have emailed excelamerica asking if they have a ce approval ,and find it appaling that they recommend fitting in to campers and motorhomes if this is the case ,i am not happy about this and will ask to return the item and and ask for a full refund,it is a shame because it works so very well,and it was myself who installed it,i used to be a heating egineaer a while ago but saddly not too sure about the regulations for campers and caravan,i did see all the certificates excel had and i choose this one because i thought it was safe , live and learn ,thankyou for the imformation Brian

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Brian,

I am not condemning the Excel, it is just that it does not conform to the CE's view of safety in caravans and small dwellings. CE requires a combustion tract that is sealed from the habitation space. That way regardless of any failure in the quality of combustion zero emissions will enter the living area.

That said I can neither condone it for use in small dwellings, where the ratio of gas throughput is high in relation to the habitation volume and limited ventilation.

CSA view the matter differently, Apparently the use of the ODS that cuts off the gas supply to the burner if the relative oxygen level of the air reaching the burner is too low is seen as sufficient protection for the occupants.

Exelamerica make a significant point about the OSD technology emanating from Europe, and yes it did. I was fortunate to be doing some consulting work for the UK developer of the OSD system that was fitted to domestic gas fires. The gas fires still needed a flue even with the OSD to meet EU regs.

 

[scarrabri]

Hello Brian,

I am not condemning the Excel, it is just that it does not conform to the CE's view of safety in caravans and small dwellings. CE requires a combustion tract that is sealed from the habitation space. That way regardless of any failure in the quality of combustion zero emissions will enter the living area.

That said I can neither condone it for use in small dwellings, where the ratio of gas throughput is high in relation to the habitation volume and limited ventilation.

CSA view the matter differently, Apparently the use of the ODS that cuts off the gas supply to the burner if the relative oxygen level of the air reaching the burner is too low is seen as sufficient protection for the occupants.

Exelamerica make a significant point about the OSD technology emanating from Europe, and yes it did. I was fortunate to be doing some consulting work for the UK developer of the OSD system that was fitted to domestic gas fires. The gas fires still needed a flue even with the OSD to meet EU regs.

Hi john thanks again for your information,i have not had a reply from excel yet but i am quite sure i will have one,this has really got me interested ,and a lot of questions need to be asked regaurding this item,i would really like to know who i speak too about regulations ,because i find very little information on the net concidering this is very important ,i can very easily take this gas water heater out,but i am doing tests on it to see how safe it is and what it is giving out,when been used over a 20 min period,i have the levells been monitored,but have nothing regestering a dangerouse level ,,,my ventillation is so good i dont beleave there can be any danger from this unit but would like to speak with one of the regulating bodys,any way thank you again Brian