MY OWN STUPID FAULT!!!!

[Gagakev]

Although we all know we should, how many of us always read and digest all the small print before signing a contract?
Here's the scenario;
Put house on market for a 20 week period with estate agent
Read (glimpse) the contract before signing
They explain that if we remove property before the 20 weeks we would be responsible for paying for the EPS energy certificate.
I ask what if you dont sell it in the time frame and we remove it after the contract period?
Reply; Not a problem this house will sell in a couple of weeks, loads of families looking for this type of property (Blah Blah Blah),
but if we dont sell it after the 20 week period there will be no charges or fees to pay.
So I sign, two veiwings in 20 weeks, so we remove it from the market.
They then send me a bill for the EPS AND for premium advertising.
Rang them up and asked them to explain, you signed the contract it's in the small print, so I explain that I was told after the 20 weeks there is nothing to pay, they were not interested.
Whats premium advertising I ask, oh thats for the photo's and internet advertising, thought that was there job to advertise!!!
So after £244.00 out of pocket the moto is
Please read the small print

 

[Sproket]

Kev,
what will your leader say to that............
I mean you being a Full and Joint Founder Member of the Woosie Club.....
Your pack leader allways tells fourumites to be very careful & read the small print.........

 

[Gagakev]

Kev,
what will your leader say to that............

I deserve and await my fate.....

 

[Dustydog]

Oh dear Sir Kev
That really is a perpendicular pro noun. Us Woosies of old should know better.

Any chance you can pass the bill to your beloved boss and ask him to pay it? You could tell him it was all his fault because of the recent unneccessary stress he put you under.

I take it you don't want to move now???
I thought Woosalot was a great place.
Anyway you big Woosie , read the small print in future. I don't know what Sir Rob and Dame TC will have to say/

 

[Surfer]

Report it to TS as they are scamming you!

 

[Gagakev]

Report it to TS as they are scamming you!

Thats an interesting reply there Surfer, my daughter worked in an estate agents for a couple of years and when I spoke to her she said the same thing. But they may have changed there policies since she left a couple of years ago.

 

[Gagakev]

Oh dear Sir Kev
That really is a perpendicular pro noun. Us Woosies of old should know better.

Any chance you can pass the bill to your beloved boss and ask him to pay it? You could tell him it was all his fault because of the recent unneccessary stress he put you under.

Now theres an idea

I take it you don't want to move now??? Cant find any thing as good as we have, van and 3 car spaces on drive if required (at the right price)
I thought Woosalot was a great place. Bit big for two of us,was going to downsize, but hey we have still got the two flushing Woosie Pots
Anyway you big Woosie , read the small print in future. I don't know what Sir Rob and Dame TC will have to say/

Dont tell them.... Please!

 

[Surfer]

Report it to TS as they are scamming you!

Thats an interesting reply there Surfer, my daughter worked in an estate agents for a couple of years and when I spoke to her she said the same thing. But they may have changed there policies since she left a couple of years ago.

Slightly different, but recently a friend of ours almost got caught the same way due to clauses hidden away and in very legal tongue twisting language. He challenged them when they debited his CC for £99 and they said tough so he approched CAB who advised him that the company's T & Cs were Unfair and not in plain language which is contrary to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. TS also confirmed it. A small claims was issued and he got a full refund plus costs.

 

[forestgump]

your sacked.

 

[Gagakev]

Slightly different, but recently a friend of ours almost got caught the same way due to clauses hidden away and in very legal tongue twisting language. He challenged them when they debited his CC for £99 and they said tough so he approched CAB who advised him that the company's T & Cs were Unfair and not in plain language which is contrary to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. TS also confirmed it. A small claims was issued and he got a full refund plus costs.

Hi Surfer, thanks for your input you spurred me on to look deeper so I went on the The property Ombudsman website and did some searching, I found two things to my advantage which they havent complied with. (obviously wont divalge in detail at this time but will let you know the outcome).
Can say though that it involves a written and verbal action they should have taken.
May be fighting a losing battle but hey the underdog does come out on top sometimes. (Wishful thinking)
Thanks again Surfer.

 

[Gagakev]

your sacked.

I have a picture of you in my head Gump; The Mad Axeman

 

[forestgump]

your still sacked kev chop/chop off with his head.

 

[Gagakev]

Gumpy leave his head on untill I get my christmas Bonus, thank you

 

[Surfer]

A lot of organisatiosn rely on our ignorance of the law to get away with things. I learnt a lot from subscribing here.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Assuming the OP's posting is accurate and describes the sequence of events in the correct order, this is actually quite clear.

Contractually the estate agent is the seller of a service, which they have considerable experience and should be considered expert in, and with that same principal, the same applies to any agent of the estate agent who is conducting business on their behalf.

Gagakev is the customer, and in this context would be considered not to be an expert, a point that was exemplified by the questions he asked.

Before signing the contract, Gagakev was given the opportunity to read the T&C's of the contract. Subsequent to reading the T&C's Gagakev then asked a direct question about the liability of payment of fees if the property was not sold within the 20 week window. The answer he received was a definitive answer, and as it was given by an officer of the seller, and therefore can be construed as an authorised variation to the contracts T&C's.

The contact was signed after that exchange, and therefore the verbal variation is now a term of that contract.

Gagakev can also point to the fact that as the question of no sale fees was raised, and discussed, that clearly this was an important factor, and that the variation had been agreed was pivotal to his decision to use this product.

If the seller used the thought that agreeing to drop the no sale fees was an encouragement to get the business, and then to claim the agreement was void, then they are on a very sticky wicket.

However, whilst the above may be true, morally it is also true that the estate agent has incurred some costs that arise from the action of accepting a client and preparing literature and advertising etc. So is it reasonable to believe that no sale = no fees?

 

[Gagakev]

However, whilst the above may be true, morally it is also true that the estate agent has incurred some costs that arise from the action of accepting a client and preparing literature and advertising etc. So is it reasonable to believe that no sale = no fees?

Thanks for the reply Prof, very encouraging until the last bit!!!

I can accept your veiws on there expenses, however if they had explained it properly in the first place I would not now be in this position. They were "confident" they would sell the property giving me the full sales talk as they all do.
I lodged a complaint with them on Thursday and today received written acknowledgement they were looking into it. They also state that I should still pay the invoice whilst the investigation goes on and if they are found of wrong doing they will refund all or part of it!!!
It has also come to light that the sales agent no longer works for them and the manager of the branch has been replaced, Why? this all happened weeks before my complaint (so not my doing) but gives my mind a challenge,
Think if I am to continue I need to seek further legal advice but am wondering if it really is worth all the hassle,heartache and headaches

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Gagakev,

I believe you do have a justifiable case.

My last paragraph was just a moralistic point of view. I merely tried to offer a balanced argument.

As you are in dispute with the agents, then I strongly agree you should seek a local professional view, but I suggest you shouldn't pay any part of the bill utill your advisers tell you to do so.

I suspect that your advisers will suggest you write to the estate agent and tell them you dispute the bill because you had a verbal confirmation from their company officer (name and date) that no fees would be levied under the circumstances that transpired this was as far as you are concerned an agreed term of the contract that you entered into in good faith. As such the companies bill appears to be in breach of that contract.

I believe that if they pursue the matter either by issuing more invoices or any other means of debt recovery then that is financial harrisment which is illegal

It is not your fault if the company fails to train its officers or agants in the enactment of contractural arrangmants. The company should seek redress from the wrong do'er - ie their employee or agent who mis-sold the contract.
It will help your argument immensly if there was a witness to the transaction who would be prepared to state their perception of the procedings.

 

[Gagakev]

It will help your argument immensly if there was a witness to the transaction who would be prepared to state their perception of the procedings.

The agreement was signed in our home with both myself and OH present. So no independent witness as such.
Thanks again Prof

 

[DeliDave_]

Your wife would be a witness if it ever went to court which I doubt.My neighbor has put his house on the market Friday on a no sale no fee it is common practice.You could always ask the Citizens Advice what they think but I doubt they'd disagree with a Proffesor
For Sir Roger it is Adams house

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Dave, ask your neighbour to double double check his agreement, its in the small print, think the 7 day cancelation clause will apply so if he finds something he's not happy with he has the get out clause.
Believe the clause only applies if it was signed in his own home and not at the office of the agent.
Complicated life aint it?????

 

[Dustydog]

Kev
A long shot.
Do you have Legal Expenses included on your Home Insurance Policy? If you do there is a chance it may afford cover for such events , thus giving free access to Legal experts who will evaluate your case foc.
Worth a punt if you do have the cover.

 

[Surfer]

However, whilst the above may be true, morally it is also true that the estate agent has incurred some costs that arise from the action of accepting a client and preparing literature and advertising etc. So is it reasonable to believe that no sale = no fees?

Thanks for the reply Prof, very encouraging until the last bit!!!

I can accept your veiws on there expenses, however if they had explained it properly in the first place I would not now be in this position. They were "confident" they would sell the property giving me the full sales talk as they all do.
I lodged a complaint with them on Thursday and today received written acknowledgement they were looking into it. They also state that I should still pay the invoice whilst the investigation goes on and if they are found of wrong doing they will refund all or part of it!!!
It has also come to light that the sales agent no longer works for them and the manager of the branch has been replaced, Why? this all happened weeks before my complaint (so not my doing) but gives my mind a challenge,
Think if I am to continue I need to seek further legal advice but am wondering if it really is worth all the hassle,heartache and headaches

Legally while there is a dispute, they cannot demand money or enforce any action. By doing so they are contravening the Consumer Regulations and TS would certainly frown on this.
Once they have your money, there is virtually zero chnace of getting irt back unless you start a small claims action through the courts.

 

[Martin24]

I was so lucky earlier this year, Didn't like the speak of half a dozen estate agents or so and didn't go with the cheapest by a long shot. Only had one viewing but luckily they ended up buying the house!! Took forever but all went through in the end!! If only LR were as easy to deal with!! Good luck with any action you take and YES it is worth the hastle

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer,

That is why suggested writing to the estate agnet specifically in the terms I gave.

 

[Gagakev]

Kev
A long shot.
Do you have Legal Expenses included on your Home Insurance Policy? If you do there is a chance it may afford cover for such events , thus giving free access to Legal experts who will evaluate your case foc.
Worth a punt if you do have the cover.

Have just checked my policy and Yep I have legal cover, will ring them tomorrow to check what cover is actually included.
Cheers King DD