New Company Car

[reggie69]

Hi folks,
New to the forum, but have been an avid PC reader for some time.
We have had a caravan in the past, but not for some years. The time has come for us to start again.
I am a company car driver and am due to get a new motor next month. Based on this we will then start to look for a new van.
Here is my problem - I don't have any choice over the new car, it will be a Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi Zetec Estate. I've done some looking round and can see the manufacturer suggests a maximum tow weight of 1200kgs.
I'm struggling to get my head round what this means and what I can actually tow safely. Am I right in thinking that I should be looking for something with a MTPLM of 85% of the new car's kerbweight, as long as that doesn't exceed the 1200kg mark?
I don't have the kerbweight yet because I haven't got the car!
I'd class myself as a beginner when it comes to towing even though I've done it before.
Subject to your thoughts and answers, would anyone like to give me some suggestions for a suitable van (which I know will be fairly light in weight). We need a four berth and will have a budget of up to £4k.
Look forward to your thoughts.
With thanks,
Chris

 

[Lutz]

The kerb weight of a Focus is somewhere around 1340kg, give or take 50kg. 85% of that is 1139kg. So you should be looking for a caravan with an MTPLM of not much more than 1140kg. This is less than 1200kg so you'd be alright in that respect, too.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Chris,

This area of law concerning driving and towing is quite complex but if you follow your suggested route of using a caravan whose MTPLM does not exceed the cars maximum braked towing limit then you should be well within limits and legal.

The 85% guidance conventionally suggests you should keep the MTPLM of the caravan to just 85% of the tow vehicles kerb weight. This has no legal authority but it does suggest a general approach to caravanning. A few percent over is unlikely to be catastrophic so don't feel it is strict requirement. If you cant find the "kerbweight" then you can substitute the Unladen Weight or Mass in Running Order or Mass in Service figure from your V5.

In contrast however the Focus's maximum towed weight (1200) and nose weight (75kg) limits do have legal force and must not be exceeded.

In fact if you are very savay with you checks and limits you could actually legally tow a trailer whose actual total weight is 1275kg which is shared physically 75kg on the nose weight and 1200 on the axles.

You may have noticed that I have referred to actual weights and not the MTPLM. It is possible to use a trailer that has a bigger MTPLM provided it is only partially loaded as described above.

You should also check you driving licence for what you are allowed to drive. I don't anticipate you proposed outfit will contravene any licence limits but do check here:-
http://www.drivex.co.uk/driving-licence-info/#catb

 

[Surfer]

Please be aware that your car probbaly comes with RAC cover however if there is an issue whiwel towing, they will not recvoer the caravan FOC. It will be a seperate charegh and can be very expensive. You will need to take out another policy in addiiton to the RAC policy, in effect paying twice for breakdown cover. As the car is probably leased, can we assume the leasing company is happy for a tow bar to be fitted as it is a modification and insurance needs to be notified?

 

[Mel]

Have a look at the caravan finder website to get an idea of what is out there. For example there is a Lunar Solar with an MPTLM of 1200kg for just under £4k, a lunar Arriva with an MPTLM of 900kg for a similar price, an avondale with an MPTLM of 1100kg. All these vans were made aound 1998. Remember that when buying a van; condition is more inportant than age and watch out for damp
Happy shopping
mel

 

[Mel]

Have a look at the caravan finder website to get an idea of what is out there. For example there is a Lunar Solar with an MPTLM of 1200kg for just under £4k, a lunar Arriva with an MPTLM of 900kg for a similar price, an avondale with an MPTLM of 1100kg. All these vans were made aound 1998. Remember that when buying a van; condition is more inportant than age and watch out for damp
Happy shopping
mel

 

[reggie69]

Many thanks for the replies all. I'm going to hang on until the car arrives before making any decisions about vans just to be sure on everything.
I've spoken with the lease company and all is well with having a towbar fitted.
I'll keep you posted with progress. Appreciate your help.

 

[reggie69]

Well I should have known there would be a problem somewhere along the line...HELP!
Have been speaking with our fleet manager today and asked about 3rd party liability for the caravan on my company car insurance and this is the reply I received:
"The insurance covers the use of the car and any damage caused to it or by it, the caravan is not covered in any way. You would also be responsible for repairing any damage to the car the towing may cause ie chipped paintwork etc."
I've had a chat with the caravan club insurance and they tell me that their 3rd party liablility cover doesn't apply when the van is attached to the car. So it appears that I won't be in a position to have 3rd party cover whilst towing which obviously isn't an option.
I'm now totally confused.
What are my options please?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Reggie,
Did the fleet manager just give you an instant verbal response or did he take considered advice from the companies insurance brokers?

I suggest you actually get the fleet managaer to check the policy details, as I seem to remember the law considers a towvehicle and its attached trailer to be one road vehicle, and as such insurance policies do cover trailers. This was certainly the case at a business where several company car users did tow caravans. But perhaps some policies do restrict towing

Can I suggest you respectfully ask the Manager to consult the brokers or the policy documentaion just to be certain. - Or as a car user, you are and should see the policy details, as you are obliged to follow them as part of your working terms and conditions.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Reggie

"The insurance covers the use of the car and any damage caused to it or by it, the caravan is not covered in any way. You would also be responsible for repairing any damage to the car the towing may cause ie chipped paintwork etc."

A couple of years ago the question of RTA third party liability cover cropped up on here with two Insurers . After some debate both Insurers realised they had made a mistake and both openly confirmed that a trailer / caravan whilst attached to the towing vehilcle will be insured for RTA third party liability.

I suspect your Transport Manager has got the wrong end of the stick and quite correctly is trying to say "the caravan itself is not covered for any damage sustained whilst being towed" . That's nothing to do with the RTA TP aspect.

The cover you get with the Caravan Club is for the caravan itself, its contents and laibility to third parties whilst detached from the towing vehicle, eg pitched on site.
Go with the Prof's advice and ask to see the actual policy wording, ask to speak to the Broker / Insurer and get the reply in writing.
I doubt very much indeed they exclude the road risk for the caravan whilst attached but you must be certain.

 

[reggie69]

Thanks again for your thoughts and advice. I will go back to the fleet manager tomorrow with a more specific question and ask her to double check.

 

[Raywood]

I did have a company car on the sane terms. The car insurance has to cover any trailer when towing against RTA risks so this is excluded from caravan policies as it is not needed. If by any chance the company has a policy which excludes towing this will be detailed in the certificate but the insurere would still have to deal with any claims in the first instance but would have a right of recovery against the policyholder.

 

[reggie69]

Thanks for your update Raywood.
Well the emails have been bouncing around between me, the fleet manager and the insurance company. The answers are really woolly and it looks like we will be changing company insurance again soon. I don't want to find myself in a position where I have spent a lot of money and then not be able to tow.
I have decided therefore, that we will have to use our other car. At least we won't have the hassle of sorting insurance / breakdown cover etc.
The problem here is that it is a 1.4 petrol Nissan Note which will really restrict what choice of van we will be able to have. What do you think of this as an option?

 

[Sproket]

Having had a look around & the Nissan Note max towing weight is less than 1000kg
Can't think of anything any lighter than this Tardis

Or more expense on another tow car ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello reggie,
I'm sorry the company is being obstructive in allowing towing, but i suppose they are within their rights to disallow company cars being used as tow vehicles.

And I'm sorry but the news dosen't get any better. I have done a search on the 1.4 Nissan Note, and the data base I have shows the the maxbraked towing weight varies from as low as 750kg to 950kg. This is very model specific so I dont know which might apply to your car. But these are tiny allowances which really restricts your choice of caravans.
To give firmer details we need to know year, model, body style, engine size, gearbox, and trim level

 

[reggie69]

Thanks Prof - it is a 2008, 1.4 petrol acenta, manual gearbox. I'm pretty sure max towing weight is 945kg. I know this is really low and we have to make a choice now about what to do. We really need 4 berths, but getting something weighing in at this level should be interesting.
We also need to think about how the car will manage - it will have 4 people in it, loaded with luggage etc., and pulling a van. Is it realistic?
Thanks again,
Chris

 

[Surfer]

Thanks Prof - it is a 2008, 1.4 petrol acenta, manual gearbox. I'm pretty sure max towing weight is 945kg. I know this is really low and we have to make a choice now about what to do. We really need 4 berths, but getting something weighing in at this level should be interesting.
We also need to think about how the car will manage - it will have 4 people in it, loaded with luggage etc., and pulling a van. Is it realistic?
Thanks again,
Chris

Reading the above, don't visit Wales!

The car will really struggle with 4 people, luggage and towing a caravan. I would suggest you look for something more concrete to offer your employer regarding the company car to put them at ease. Perhaps legislation regarding 3rd party insurance?

"The insurance covers the use of the car and any damage caused to it or by it, the caravan is not covered in any way. You would also be responsible for repairing any damage to the car the towing may cause ie chipped paintwork etc."

I think this is where the fleet managed has misinterpreted the regulations. The caravan is covered by the car's third party when towing. Damage to the caravan when towing is covered by the caravan insurance, i.e. stone chips or another car running into the caravan. If you pull out in front of oncoming traffic, and a vehicle hits the caravan, but not the car, third party liability should kick in.
If the caravan somehow damages the car while it is being towed this will be the result of you being invovled in an accident, therefore the normal insurance will kick in as the caravan is regarding it as another vehicle.
BTW if the car is leased, isn't it normal practice for the leasing company to organise the insurance and not the company that is leaasing the vehicle?

 

[Raywood]

Frankly I would regard the Nissan Note as a none starter as a tow car if you need four berths. If you have a company car it is up to them as to whether you are allowed a tow bar or not but if you are and they know you are towing they must make sure the car is insured for towing or they would be liable to prosecution under then RTA. Some lease companies might object to a tow bar but as far as the insurance is concerned then this would normally be the responsibility of the company operating the vehicle.

 

[reggie69]

Sorry it has been a while, but we have been busy...
We have bitten the bullet and purchased a 2006 Ford Focus C-Max 2 litre diesel. We have also got a van - a 1994 Lunar Clubman 520/4. Towbar to be fitted in the week. Sorted!
Thanks for all your help.

 

[Raywood]

Sorry it has been a while, but we have been busy...
We have bitten the bullet and purchased a 2006 Ford Focus C-Max 2 litre diesel. We have also got a van - a 1994 Lunar Clubman 520/4. Towbar to be fitted in the week. Sorted!
Thanks for all your help.

Looks a better combination, hope you enjoy caravanning.