newbie asking a question

[steve-focus1.6]

hi,im new to the caravan secne.i have just bought a 2003 focus 1.6 zetec hatch (before i decided to get a van) so now im restricted to a sertain wieght of van and im also restricted by my liecence since i passed in 07.
i understand that i can have a van that dosent exsead the kirb wight of the car (max wieght of the van) and within the 85% rule
the van i might be borrowing is a 1983 europa 480ci which says max gross wight of 980KG, which i understand is the maximum wight it can carry including cloths food etc (correct me if im wrong)
iv been on what tow car calculator and iv put the car model in and van wight and it says 80% match,so im asuming that thats safely within the law for me to tow
i know its not the best tow car out there but iv just been swaping cars so much recently i want to stick to just one car
i crnt find meny people that have towed with a focus but from what iv read they can do it
iv rang the caravan club tech help line and checked up on the 3.5tonne limit for me and thats fine and iv said what car iv got and how much the van weighs and they say il be fine with it
i just dont want to get pulled up and get points but its probelry just me panicing to much,but deep down im sure il be within the law
also can any one reconmend a book with good towing tips in
thanks steve

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

Welcome to the world of caravanning.
For a time I had a 2001 1.8 Zetec estate. Though I didn' tow with it I was impressed with how well it handled, and the general design. I did often have to fully load it on a number of occasins, and it continued to handle well so it bodes well for towing. Unfortunately I found the front seats to be poor in the lumbar region, and I had to let it go and revert to my love affair with Saab seats.
The information I have suggests that Ford rate the 2003 Focus 1.6 Zetec to tow up to 1200Kg, so your proposed caravan is well within the cars limits. And the kerb weight as listed is 1158Kg, so again you are well within the 100% for your Cat B licence.

I do not know how the Focus will perform with a caravan behind, but the 98Bhp exceeds the sugegsted 40bhp per ton, but you might find it needs quite a lot of coaxing to get up and maintin speed. Becasue it has a relatively short rear overhang, and the Zetec model has slightly stiffer suspension, it is likley to be quite a stable outfit, BUT you must take care to load both the car and the caravan carefully.
To comply with the towing regulations you will need to have a minimum nose load of 980Kg x 4% = 39.2Kg, but you will probably better getting it nearer 50 to 60Kg.
Take things carefully. It will accelerate and stop more like a bus, and you need to consider it to be about the length of a bus when negotiationg obstacles and corners.

Please don't quote 85% as a "rule" It is only guideline and it has no legal standing and no magical properties regarding safe towing. It is wise to keep the trailer as light as possible, but on your licence you could legally tow a trailer of 1158Kg with your car.

 

[steve-focus1.6]

thanks for your reply,you have put my mind at rest.
the only thing that is conserning me is, if i have the correct max weight for the van because aparently it has a steel chasis and is a 4 birth, just 980 kg max sounds very light to me but i may be wrong. iv looked on the plate on the a frame and the only wight i can see is "max gross wight 980kg" so from what iv read it means max wight it can hold and the empty or EX works wight must be less than that.

i have been advised when towing to put as much wight over the van wheels,try not to put to much wight high up and put heavy things like awnings and power cables in the boot of the car. is this advise right?

sorry for so many questions but i just dont want to get it wrong as its my first time : )
thanks steve

 

[RobKnapp2]

Hi Steve,
We have only just started out and have recently returned from our first trip, and I can remeber being in the same situation as yourself.
Obviously im no expert (but there are loads of very kind people here who are also very knowledgable!) but I did the following in this order:
Picked up van, placed awning and poles directly over the chassis, checked tyre pressures of car and van, wheel nut tourque and the usual lights etc, and did a 'guestimade-that-nose-seems-heavy' check for the short journey back
Got the van safety checked (brakes gas elec etc...)
Took the empty van to a weighbridge to check how close it was 'unladen' to what is stated
Started collecting bits a pieces for the van, weighing them as I went
Practiced reversing the van at my storage site (basically an equstrian field with stables which has the advantage of being able to use horse jumps and old tyres to simulate corners/places to reverse into.
Loaded the van with all the stuff, including the 2x full gas bottles. Got the van onto the flat and weighed the nose with the bathroom scales approach (cut down a broom handle to the correct length) - removed items from the locker into the van over the axle as nessacary (obviously gas stays in the front secured properly) to get as close as possible to my max noseweight.
Tested it on the motorway in non peak time junction to junction to get a feel for what that is like.
organised the first trip fairly close to home (and yup i did end up driving home for some bits we had forgotten!)
On the way to the first trip, detoured via the weighbridge again, and confirmed that the van was within its maximum allowable weight, and that the car was also within limits (my limit is 1300kg as stated in the handbook, and quite a way under the kerbweight) surprised myself at just how much it all weighs! I got weighed twice, first for complete outfit, then caravan on its own.
arrived at the site, had an excellent time, and only broke a few minor things!
Returned van to storage site, feeling even more comfortable towing etc, and chastising the wife for taking the mick out of the triple checks I do when leaving (how the van is loaded, everything shut, everything locked, no rubbish left, van hitched correctly, breakawy cable etc etc!)
The actively looked to book the training and test for my '+E' extension. (purely as it gives me good tuition, and secondly extends my abilities later on)
Although I do approach any movement with the caravan with a little 'trepidation' I settle down within about 5 minutes, and relax.
Im the sort of person who likes everything planned, and as such felt that I needed more confidence in reversing, hence practicing in the field, the alternative for me was a out of hours industrial estate or the likes.
Although my outfit theoretically cant go near the 3.5t limit of my license (my gross train weight is under this ) I do like to check and recheck weights etc, as I personally think this is part of being a sensible/conscientious driver, although every trip may be a little over zealous!
I think ive probably rambled far too much, and indeed the above is very likely to be a repeat of advise I have been given, but thought the above might help.
Cheers
Rob

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

Bear in mind that you should try to keep the trailer as light as possible, so try and keep heavy items in the car. But if you have got some heavy items in the caravan due to size, then yes these are best located low down and over the axle.

Gas bottles and the battery MUST be only be carried in their proper locations.

As for the caravans GW 980Kg, Yes that is the practical maximum weight the caravan can be, though for technical reasons, the nose load (e.g. 60Kg)is not part of the trailers weight, it is part of the cars load, so you can theoretically load your caravan to 980 +60Kg = 1040Kg. The problem is that some members of the police and VOSA may not appreciate the subtlety of this.

 

[Lutz]

John, I'm afraid you've got it wrong this time. If the caravan is plated to a maximum weight of 980kg then this includes the noseweight. Only if the maximum permissible towload of the car were to be 980kg could you add the noseweight to determine the maximum total weight of a trailer that the car could legally tow. You have confused MTPLM with the towload limit specified by the car manufacturer. Noseweight is included in both the caravan's MTPLM and in the payload of the car. That's why you can't add the car's GVW to the caravan's total weight to determine the gross train weight because then you would be counting the noseweight twice.

 

[xtrailman]

Hello Steve,

Bear in mind that you should try to keep the trailer as light as possible, so try and keep heavy items in the car. But if you have got some heavy items in the caravan due to size, then yes these are best located low down and over the axle.

Gas bottles and the battery MUST be only be carried in their proper locations.

As for the caravans GW 980Kg, Yes that is the practical maximum weight the caravan can be, though for technical reasons, the nose load (e.g. 60Kg)is not part of the trailers weight, it is part of the cars load, so you can theoretically load your caravan to 980 +60Kg = 1040Kg. The problem is that some members of the police and VOSA may not appreciate the subtlety of this.

There is no reason why a gas cylinder can't be carried in the car, likewise a battery.

My understanding is VOSA weigh the caravan, so MTPLM must NOT be exceeded.
But the nose weight is added to the cars rear axle weight.
Apparently VOSA weigh all three axle loads, so the maximum load rating must not be exceeded. Also the train weight is checked, so again that must not be exceeded.

 

[xtrailman]

Hello Steve,

Bear in mind that you should try to keep the trailer as light as possible, so try and keep heavy items in the car. But if you have got some heavy items in the caravan due to size, then yes these are best located low down and over the axle.

Gas bottles and the battery MUST be only be carried in their proper locations.

As for the caravans GW 980Kg, Yes that is the practical maximum weight the caravan can be, though for technical reasons, the nose load (e.g. 60Kg)is not part of the trailers weight, it is part of the cars load, so you can theoretically load your caravan to 980 +60Kg = 1040Kg. The problem is that some members of the police and VOSA may not appreciate the subtlety of this.

Gas bottles and batteries can be carried in a car, obviously they need to be secured.
You cannot add the nose weight on top of the MTPLM, the stated max MTPLM is the limit.

But you must add the nose weight to the cars rear axle load, the maximum axle load ratings again must not be exceeded.

 

[Lutz]

My understanding is VOSA weigh the caravan, so MTPLM must NOT be exceeded.
But the nose weight is added to the cars rear axle weight.
Apparently VOSA weigh all three axle loads, so the maximum load rating must not be exceeded. Also the train weight is checked, so again that must not be exceeded.

Do VOSA measure the axle loads or do they weigh the caravan? Your post above contains conflicting statements. To weigh the caravan they'd have to unhitch it.

 

[ProfJohnL]

SORRY,

I got it wrong about the nose weight, Lutz has agin provided the corrected answer.
Gas bottles and batteries:-
The LPG safety regs require that Vapour take off gas bottles must be transported secured to prevent movement and in an upright attitude with adequate free ventilation around the bottle to allow any leakage to dispaite safely. I know of no car wher that can be achived without modification. I have witnessed a series of planned LPG demonstration where common mistakes can lead to explosive situations. One was a litre of LPG released in a saloon car,and ignited. Not only did it blow the windows out, it actually peeled back the roof like a tin opener. The resultuing blaze took hold very quickly and realistically no one inside the car could have survived. If the did they would have suffered substantive burns. Regardless of the regulation, the act of carrying LPG bottles inside a car (even the boot of a car) is extremely unsafe.

If the bottle was not secured, under heavy breaking or a collision, you have a heavy metal projectile that would smash almost anything in its path, skulls, shoulders.

I have also seen the damage a Campinggaz canister for a light can do to a tent.

Similar arguments also apply to batteries. Techinically an unsecured battery is an MOT failure!, and they also require free ventilation to allo hydrogen gas to dispate safely,and of course there is the issue of acid spills.

The dangers of these objects should not be under estimated.

Regardles of any regulations or legalities, it is safer and almost certainly easier to use the dedicated spaces provide for them in the caravan.

 

[Gafferbill]

VOSA normally weigh vehicles on wheel weight gauges, which can be portable meaning they can set up a weighing facility anywhere.
Weighbridges can be used where available but do not allow VOSA to check axle weights, which is a critical aspect of their enforcement.

The procedure is that a police officer commands you to stop and directs you to the weighing point, which will be operated by a VOSA inspector.
You will be given instructions to drive your outfit at about 1mph without stopping over the weighing pads.
All weight calculations are done from these readings and analysed by computer with reference to the vehicle plates.
Obviously the caravan would have to be detached to obtain a nose weight reading but this is only normally done if they are specifically targeting caravan outfits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof........please take note that 12 volt vehicle batteries are now available that use gel instead of a liquid acid. They do not give off hydrogen and are in fact completely sealed.
The can be fitted anywhere and in any position but do have to be physically secured.

 

[Lutz]

In other words, they do not, as a matter of course, check whether the MTPLM of the caravan is not exceeded.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Gaffer,
I think you are playing devils advocate here,
Gel batteries have been around for many years, and yes they can be fitted at almost any angle and do not require conventional ventilation. BUT the most common batteries sold for caravans are still lead acid which are attitude sensitive and do require ventilation.

 

[xtrailman]

In other words, they do not, as a matter of course, check whether the MTPLM of the caravan is not exceeded.

No but sometimes they do, which was why my post appeared to contradict.

 

[Gafferbill]

Similar arguments also apply to batteries. ...............and they also require free ventilation to allow hydrogen gas to dissipate safely,and of course there is the issue of acid spills.

........... Prof you made this statement which is incorrect by your own subsequent admission.

Devils advocate?........ No, just updating your advice for the benefit of any caravaner that wants to carry a 12 volt battery in their car.