Well I am shocked, never heard of this one before. Have booked into a caravan park in St Andrews in September, and are not allowed to use our gas bbq due to health & safety reasons????? Anyone heard of this before?
No BBQ's allowed???
- Thread starter val
- Start date
Hello Val,
Yes i have on a couple of sites, and I am sure there will be others. Whether is Health and Safety or not I don't know, butyou must remember that the site operator can impose any restrictions they feel are needed, and as guests on their site you agree to abide by their rules.
Yes i have on a couple of sites, and I am sure there will be others. Whether is Health and Safety or not I don't know, butyou must remember that the site operator can impose any restrictions they feel are needed, and as guests on their site you agree to abide by their rules.
As Prof says the site can impose their own restrictions but to use the term Health and Safety implies that there is a legislative authority underpinning their decision. This is just another example of people citing our H&S legislation incorrectly which actually brings it into undeserved disrepute. I'd cancel my booking as your likely to find the site will have lots more irritating little rules. And tell them why you are cancelling. There must be lots of nice sites more deserving of your custom.
As the prof says, a site can come up with their own rules but they should not call it health & safety. There are few actual laws and what there are, are littered with 'where practicable'. Most health & safety rules are just that, rules that somebody has thought up, usually without any risk assesment at all. Also all the legislation is aimed at the workplace and the actions of workers, so how can anybody using a barbeque in a lesuire activity have anything to do with the health & safety law?
Its possibly because of the deaths from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Which gas BBQ's do not give off
So perhaps a phone call back to them and clarify the BBQ point
So perhaps a phone call back to them and clarify the BBQ point
Hello Rita,
I must correct a misconception you seem to have. Gas BBQ's can and do produce Carbon Monoxide.
I must correct a misconception you seem to have. Gas BBQ's can and do produce Carbon Monoxide.
Damian
Moderator
Quote "
Its possibly because of the deaths from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Which gas BBQ's do not give off "
That information is totally wrong and should not be taken any notice of.
EVERY fossil fuel burning appliance will give off Carbon Monoxide, and gas barbeques are fossil fuelled.
As soon as anything impinges on the flame , CO is produced.
Its possibly because of the deaths from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Which gas BBQ's do not give off "
That information is totally wrong and should not be taken any notice of.
EVERY fossil fuel burning appliance will give off Carbon Monoxide, and gas barbeques are fossil fuelled.
As soon as anything impinges on the flame , CO is produced.
Hey Prof and Damian
Go a bit easier on Rita, please.
She is correct but missed out the fact that the offending BBQs were not in use, "switched off".
A gas BBQ without any rocks/ coals will not give off CO once turned off.
A charcoal type although finished with for cooking will continue to give off fumes including CO. It was this type that has caused the recent sad deaths.
Go a bit easier on Rita, please.
She is correct but missed out the fact that the offending BBQs were not in use, "switched off".
A gas BBQ without any rocks/ coals will not give off CO once turned off.
A charcoal type although finished with for cooking will continue to give off fumes including CO. It was this type that has caused the recent sad deaths.
Hello Dusty,
You are correct, but Rita did not say that, and that could lead an uninformed person to beleive its safe to use a Gas BBQ inside a tent or awning. That advise is totally unsafe.
BBQ's gas or charcoal are poor devices for burning fuel, which is one of the reasons they produce their classic taste, but the same reason means that all the fuel available (gas, charcol, and fat from the food) is unable to aquire all the oxygene it nees for complete combustion, resulting in soot and CO.
Incidentally - A gas BBQ if turned off is not being used.
You are correct, but Rita did not say that, and that could lead an uninformed person to beleive its safe to use a Gas BBQ inside a tent or awning. That advise is totally unsafe.
BBQ's gas or charcoal are poor devices for burning fuel, which is one of the reasons they produce their classic taste, but the same reason means that all the fuel available (gas, charcol, and fat from the food) is unable to aquire all the oxygene it nees for complete combustion, resulting in soot and CO.
Incidentally - A gas BBQ if turned off is not being used.
hi, the Prof is quite right, it is up to the site operator to make the rules,Prof John L said:
some sites don't allow dogs, or kids, or t/a's or even awnings, but no one is shocked. you just have to accept what ever it is and vote with your feet, sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but the truth is if you need the BBQ find another site or if you like the site leave the barbie at home.
Thanks for all your comments on this. We have decided that we will still go to this site as friends are also going but in a static there plus also when booked 7 weeks before arrival date they took full payment so not really wanting to lose all that money (a bit high in price (£81) I thought for 3 nights with only 10 amp elec too), but I dont think we will be back to this site (haven't even been yet and have already made that decision haha) As for the no BBQ'ing well I think its a lot of rubbish as BBQ is on a stand but I can see where you are coming from about the deaths linked to it, so we will just go and leave it at home. I have noticed that there are sites out there that have restrictions on other things like "no same sex groups", "adult only sites" which if you already know in advance then you wouldn't book there anyway. Also in paperwork it states that you cannot use heaters because if you do along with a kettle/tv etc you will trip it and they will charge you £10 to reconnect??????? but we are going at end of September emmmmm maybe just need my heater on then though!!!!! All of these notes I think should be made aware to you before booking but all this came along with your booking notification which I do think is wrong
Oh well will just wait and see how we get on and with everything, we will just have to make the best of it
Oh well will just wait and see how we get on and with everything, we will just have to make the best of it
If you were not given a chance to read and understand their terms and conditions before booking, I do not think they can enforce them on you, or it would give you a reason to cancel and get all your money back, The prof will probably be along to quote all the legal stuff, so I will leave that all to him.
hi Val, usually a set of site rules come along with the booking form, or if they dont ask for them on first contact either by phone or e-mail, that way you know were you are before parting with any fees,
many sites have adopted the "pay upfront way" now to counteract the no shows,
inconvienient but understandable, personally I would not part with a penny until I know whats what on a site, if there is something I dont like I make my conserns known and book somewhere else,
many sites have adopted the "pay upfront way" now to counteract the no shows,
inconvienient but understandable, personally I would not part with a penny until I know whats what on a site, if there is something I dont like I make my conserns known and book somewhere else,
You called melud'
Almost right Hortimech,
If you book a site remotely in advance (Post, phone internet etc)then Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, apply.
See
http://www.out-law.com/page-430
"The Regulations give consumers a right to:
receive clear information about the supplier, the goods or services and the sale before deciding to buy;
confirmation of this information in writing;
a cancellation period of 7 working days in which to withdraw from the contract;"
In this instance I believe the restrictions on the use of BBQ's are a significant term, and give good cause to cancel unless it was discussed during the initial negotiation. But to cancel under the distance selling regs, you must cancel within 7 days of the initial agreement.
I suspect that the OP has left it too long to be granted a cancellation under the CPDSR2K's, but there is no harm in raising the issue with the site operator pointing out that customers should be told of the sites restrictions before they part with money.
Hortimech wrote
"If you were not given a chance to read and understand their terms and conditions before booking, I do not think they can enforce them on you"
I'm not sure Hortimech wanted to imply that you could use the site and ignore the restrictions, That is incorrect. You were made aware of the restrictions when you received the written confirmation. You had the opportunity to challenge them, or cancel you booking within the 7 day period. The fact that you didn't cancel or challenge means you have accepted and agreed to the full T&C's.
Your rights may be different if the restrictions were not included in your booking confirmation, and you only found out about the restriction when you arrived on site. It might be tricky to prove that the loss of that facility was of sufficient magnitude to warrant refusing the pitch and claiming a full refund.
The moral of this story is if a particular facility or service is of significant importance to you make sure you ask or clarify the details before or as sonnas possible after you pay.
Almost right Hortimech,
If you book a site remotely in advance (Post, phone internet etc)then Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, apply.
See
http://www.out-law.com/page-430
"The Regulations give consumers a right to:
receive clear information about the supplier, the goods or services and the sale before deciding to buy;
confirmation of this information in writing;
a cancellation period of 7 working days in which to withdraw from the contract;"
In this instance I believe the restrictions on the use of BBQ's are a significant term, and give good cause to cancel unless it was discussed during the initial negotiation. But to cancel under the distance selling regs, you must cancel within 7 days of the initial agreement.
I suspect that the OP has left it too long to be granted a cancellation under the CPDSR2K's, but there is no harm in raising the issue with the site operator pointing out that customers should be told of the sites restrictions before they part with money.
Hortimech wrote
"If you were not given a chance to read and understand their terms and conditions before booking, I do not think they can enforce them on you"
I'm not sure Hortimech wanted to imply that you could use the site and ignore the restrictions, That is incorrect. You were made aware of the restrictions when you received the written confirmation. You had the opportunity to challenge them, or cancel you booking within the 7 day period. The fact that you didn't cancel or challenge means you have accepted and agreed to the full T&C's.
Your rights may be different if the restrictions were not included in your booking confirmation, and you only found out about the restriction when you arrived on site. It might be tricky to prove that the loss of that facility was of sufficient magnitude to warrant refusing the pitch and claiming a full refund.
The moral of this story is if a particular facility or service is of significant importance to you make sure you ask or clarify the details before or as sonnas possible after you pay.
£10 to flick a switch is unbelievable, we all have done it and this is the first time I have ever heard of a charge to reset. Since they have your money you may as well go as you say but it would be my first and last visit.val said:Thanks for all your comments on this. We have decided that we will still go to this site as friends are also going but in a static there plus also when booked 7 weeks before arrival date they took full payment so not really wanting to lose all that money (a bit high in price (£81) I thought for 3 nights with only 10 amp elec too), but I dont think we will be back to this site (haven't even been yet and have already made that decision haha) As for the no BBQ'ing well I think its a lot of rubbish as BBQ is on a stand but I can see where you are coming from about the deaths linked to it, so we will just go and leave it at home. I have noticed that there are sites out there that have restrictions on other things like "no same sex groups", "adult only sites" which if you already know in advance then you wouldn't book there anyway. Also in paperwork it states that you cannot use heaters because if you do along with a kettle/tv etc you will trip it and they will charge you £10 to reconnect??????? but we are going at end of September emmmmm maybe just need my heater on then though!!!!! All of these notes I think should be made aware to you before booking but all this came along with your booking notification which I do think is wrong
Oh well will just wait and see how we get on and with everything, we will just have to make the best of it
David
As an aside this site I'm on at The Lizard hires out chimeneas with logs or coal. Mostly campers hire them! Say no more!
Mel
Moderator
Is a Cadac (and similar) a BBQ or is it a grill?
Potentially one of the great existential questions.
(besides this, there may not be rules about grills
)
mel
Potentially one of the great existential questions.
(besides this, there may not be rules about grills
mel
Mel said:Is a Cadac (and similar) a BBQ or is it a grill?
Potentially one of the great existential questions.
(besides this, there may not be rules about grills)
mel
Mine says it's a Cadac Carri Chef. Nowhere does it use the phrase BBQ.
There are no coals so I think Mel your reference to grill is correct. With the lid on I then see it as an oven.
Have I been mis sold???
An interesting point, is it a barbeque (BBQ), grill, or a griddle?
The most likely origin of the BBQ is from the Caribbean, where slow cooking over smoldering embers is widespread. Its akin to smoking foods to preserve them, and foods prepared in this way have a characteristic wood smoke flavouring mixed with primary and secondary caramelisation of liberated fats.
The type of BBQ'ing we do now is often used to cook fatty meats. it cooks by a combination of radiation and convection. Here not only do you get the woody flavouring from the embers, but as the fat melts it drips onto the red hot embers which rapidly vaporise the fat This in turn then burns and caramelises the residues which burn more slowly. The burnt fat vapour rises and condenses on the cooler items being cooked again adding new flavours to them.
A grill predominantly cooks by radiation, with the heat source glowing either above or to the sides. any liquefied residues from the food are not supposed to touch the heating elements, so you don't tend to get the second caramelisation associated with BBQ's
A griddle cooks by conduction. The surface of the griddle gets hot enough to melt the fats and it can vaporise them, but the absence of flame means the vapours don't ignite and that prevents a secondary flavour change.
Whether these technical differences are enough to change the view of the site operator I don't know, but I suspect its more likely a ban on all cooking outside.
The most likely origin of the BBQ is from the Caribbean, where slow cooking over smoldering embers is widespread. Its akin to smoking foods to preserve them, and foods prepared in this way have a characteristic wood smoke flavouring mixed with primary and secondary caramelisation of liberated fats.
The type of BBQ'ing we do now is often used to cook fatty meats. it cooks by a combination of radiation and convection. Here not only do you get the woody flavouring from the embers, but as the fat melts it drips onto the red hot embers which rapidly vaporise the fat This in turn then burns and caramelises the residues which burn more slowly. The burnt fat vapour rises and condenses on the cooler items being cooked again adding new flavours to them.
A grill predominantly cooks by radiation, with the heat source glowing either above or to the sides. any liquefied residues from the food are not supposed to touch the heating elements, so you don't tend to get the second caramelisation associated with BBQ's
A griddle cooks by conduction. The surface of the griddle gets hot enough to melt the fats and it can vaporise them, but the absence of flame means the vapours don't ignite and that prevents a secondary flavour change.
Whether these technical differences are enough to change the view of the site operator I don't know, but I suspect its more likely a ban on all cooking outside.
Morning John
I always thought flames on a conventional BBQ were to be avoided. Hence the reason why the coals should always be left for at least 30 mins to go grey/White. Flames I thought were an indication of too rapid or overcooking.
Looking at my Cadac,it seems it can be a host of all things eg upwards radiant grill, paella pan, skillet and so on. What it isn't, is a genuine BBQ.
Hence I just wondered if it had been mis sold to me? I suspect I didn't fully appreciate exactly what I had purchased.
I always thought flames on a conventional BBQ were to be avoided. Hence the reason why the coals should always be left for at least 30 mins to go grey/White. Flames I thought were an indication of too rapid or overcooking.
Looking at my Cadac,it seems it can be a host of all things eg upwards radiant grill, paella pan, skillet and so on. What it isn't, is a genuine BBQ.
Hence I just wondered if it had been mis sold to me? I suspect I didn't fully appreciate exactly what I had purchased.
Well once again many thanks for all your responses to my moans!!!!
I thought there should be a system in place to give you all rules and regulations before booking pitch, and I will be very vigilant next time I book somewhere new for all the do's and dont's!!!! but as its only for a weekend and friends are staying in the static's there we will just utilise their heater and eat out!!!!! haha
I would like to think that we could get away with taking the Cadac as I wholeheartedly agree its a grill
but better not misbehave lol.
I thought there should be a system in place to give you all rules and regulations before booking pitch, and I will be very vigilant next time I book somewhere new for all the do's and dont's!!!! but as its only for a weekend and friends are staying in the static's there we will just utilise their heater and eat out!!!!! haha
I would like to think that we could get away with taking the Cadac as I wholeheartedly agree its a grill
Many sites require barbeques to be raised off the ground which is reasonable but a blanket ban sems unduly harsh. It does make me wonder if they site the caravans very close together. If the site was named it may be someone has been there before and can let you know.
Dustydog said:
Hello Dusty,
In essence yes, but being pedantic I did say embers and didnt mention flames, though when the fat drips onto the BBQ embers, it does often flare or spit.
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