We left a site and checked that the sidelights indicators and brake lights all worked. yes everything OK. The about 2 miles down the road I noticed that the sidelight were off. When we stopped and checked nothing was working on the caravan. No brake lights, sidelights or indicators. The car was OK. Got home and found that when I connect the caravan to mais it all worked. Thje leisure batteyr is fully charged. What is the problem. It is a Lunal Clubman 470/2
No external towing electrics
- Thread starter Graham_374472172
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
Graham, you seem to be bringing two problems into one, perhaps confusingly.
With regard the road lighting issue, when the van is connected to the car by the 12N plug, then all road lights should work in conjunction with the car.
If they were working just before you left the site, then the most likely cause is a loose 12N plug or closed up centre pin in the plug, or at the outside all the road light fuses have blown at once (very unusual).
If you also had the grey 12S plug attached to your car, then nothing inside the van on 12v wil work except the fridge and the feed to the leisure battery (both when the engine is running)as a habitation relay shuts off all other 12v appliances.
When on mains supply to van, with plugs disconnected from car, all 12v and 240v appliaces should work.
With regard the road lighting issue, when the van is connected to the car by the 12N plug, then all road lights should work in conjunction with the car.
If they were working just before you left the site, then the most likely cause is a loose 12N plug or closed up centre pin in the plug, or at the outside all the road light fuses have blown at once (very unusual).
If you also had the grey 12S plug attached to your car, then nothing inside the van on 12v wil work except the fridge and the feed to the leisure battery (both when the engine is running)as a habitation relay shuts off all other 12v appliances.
When on mains supply to van, with plugs disconnected from car, all 12v and 240v appliaces should work.
your road lights will be seperate to your caravan electrics, try looking for the cable were it enters the van most have some sort of fuse box, check all conections a simple test light made up 12 volt should help, you will have to conect it up to the car to check. I take it that you have checked the cars socket ? might just be a bad connection in the plug check all pins and wire connections it does happen that they break or comes loose. hope this helps.good luck.kev.
It may well be that power is needed from the car battery source which could be the one disconnected
It could be needed to power relays for the car lights if bulb failure circuits are installed etc
It could be needed to power relays for the car lights if bulb failure circuits are installed etc
See last paragraph in this link which says about power to relays from car 12V source
http://www.towsure.com/bespoke/wiring_chooser.html
http://www.towsure.com/bespoke/wiring_chooser.html
The loss of the common earth/return occurred to me until I stopped to think about it.
If the sidelights were on then they would effectively be in series with the brake lights and the flashers, so all of the bulbs would glow. Put the brakes or flasher on and it will be like Christmas!
If the sidelights were on then they would effectively be in series with the brake lights and the flashers, so all of the bulbs would glow. Put the brakes or flasher on and it will be like Christmas!
woody
All the road lights use pin 3 white wire, on the 12n socket,(from 1998) same applies for the 13pin.
As watsonjg says if the setup has interposing relays, these would use a common live, so if this is lost, again no lights would work.
I mentioned the return, of the top of my head as the most likely fault.
At any rate with out the return i don't see a circuit, if wired as i would expect, all three returns should be isolated at the caravan end, but i am assuming that is the case.
All the road lights use pin 3 white wire, on the 12n socket,(from 1998) same applies for the 13pin.
As watsonjg says if the setup has interposing relays, these would use a common live, so if this is lost, again no lights would work.
I mentioned the return, of the top of my head as the most likely fault.
At any rate with out the return i don't see a circuit, if wired as i would expect, all three returns should be isolated at the caravan end, but i am assuming that is the case.
woody
i do apologise, you are correct, the lights will back feed to the car, so i would expect the lights to be dim,(like me?). Anyway footy on, must go.
i do apologise, you are correct, the lights will back feed to the car, so i would expect the lights to be dim,(like me?). Anyway footy on, must go.
Is it a recent towcar or a recently fitted towbar? Some installations require an additional in-line fuse to protect the car lighting circuit in the evnt of some failure. If this is the case it should be concealed within the trim near the indicator repeat bleeper. This applies at least to all the later generation Fords fitted with generic electrics.
hi Graham
first question do you have a alko stabiliser fitted??.
sounds a odd question don't it but there is a reason.
I am 99.9% sure it is an earth/return problem either a wire(white one) has come detached or one of the terminals in plug or light cluster is dirty. as others have said the trailer road lights are FED directly from the car, in order to complete a circuit BACK to the car the trailer and car are connected together via the white wire so they have a common earth.
if the earth is lost the current will try and find other ways to make a connection using any other circuit available that it can, this is why all the lights glow or work together because the power instead of going the shortest route via the earth wire runs round all the bulbs and connections down to the vans chassis in order to try and complete a circuit.
now for the alko question, on old hitches the metal ball on the car is earthed via the car chassis and the metal hitch on the van is earthed to the van chassis so when the hitch and ball are in contact(ignoring the grease factor) the earth conection is restored and the lights work allbeit erraticly, on the alko it uses non conductive pads between ball and hitch so there is no connection possible and the lights dont work at all.
one way to test this is to place a wire between the car and van chassis where there is a good contact, if it is an earth problem the lights should now work normally.
sorry about the long winded explanation but unless the circuitry is understood It can be difficult to trace a fault.
colin
first question do you have a alko stabiliser fitted??.
sounds a odd question don't it but there is a reason.
I am 99.9% sure it is an earth/return problem either a wire(white one) has come detached or one of the terminals in plug or light cluster is dirty. as others have said the trailer road lights are FED directly from the car, in order to complete a circuit BACK to the car the trailer and car are connected together via the white wire so they have a common earth.
if the earth is lost the current will try and find other ways to make a connection using any other circuit available that it can, this is why all the lights glow or work together because the power instead of going the shortest route via the earth wire runs round all the bulbs and connections down to the vans chassis in order to try and complete a circuit.
now for the alko question, on old hitches the metal ball on the car is earthed via the car chassis and the metal hitch on the van is earthed to the van chassis so when the hitch and ball are in contact(ignoring the grease factor) the earth conection is restored and the lights work allbeit erraticly, on the alko it uses non conductive pads between ball and hitch so there is no connection possible and the lights dont work at all.
one way to test this is to place a wire between the car and van chassis where there is a good contact, if it is an earth problem the lights should now work normally.
sorry about the long winded explanation but unless the circuitry is understood It can be difficult to trace a fault.
colin
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