No power in the caravan?

[Steve1962]

Idiot of the day question:

I have taken the battery out of the caravan because it needs charging.

I have the caravan connected to the house via an external socket.

I have no power at all in the caravan and nothing has tripped out.

Am I missing something obvious or do I need to do some electrical checks?

Thanks

Steve ( not very practical minded).

Thanks.

 

[Beardy]

Your battery charger may only switch on if there is a battery there to charge. No battery, no 12v. (Just a guess)

 

[Steve1962]

Your battery charger may only switch on if there is a battery there to charge. No battery, no 12v. (Just a guess)

Thanks.

Am I right in assuming that if I have removed the battery, nothing in the caravan will work even if it's connected to the house power because the circuit has been broken by me disconnecting the battery leads?

 

[Jcloughie]

Even without the battery, you should still have mains power to any mains items, ie, hot water and heating, and maybe some lights.

Continuity has been lost at some point.

Dodgy doing continuity testing for the (not very practical minded).

Why did you feel the need to remove the battery? Is the caravan charger, (otherwise known as the power supply), not working?

John

 

[Steve1962]

Even without the battery, you should still have mains power to any mains items, ie, hot water and heating, and maybe some lights.

Continuity has been lost at some point.

Dodgy doing continuity testing for the (not very practical minded).

Why did you feel the need to remove the battery? Is the caravan charger, (otherwise known as the power supply), not working?

John

Hi John,

Apologies for my ignorance on these things - the voltage on the panel went down to 11.1 so I assumed that the battery needed charging, so I took it out - it's currently charging in the house on a charger that has a facility for maintenance once it's charged.
I then went back into the caravan and found that nothing would work - no lights, the Alde heating panel won't power up.
The mains supply to the caravan was connected when I took the battery out and is still connected now.


Thanks.

 

[RogerL]

Hi John,

Apologies for my ignorance on these things - the voltage on the panel went down to 11.1 so I assumed that the battery needed charging, so I took it out - it's currently charging in the house on a charger that has a facility for maintenance once it's charged.
I then went back into the caravan and found that nothing would work - no lights, the Alde heating panel won't power up.
The mains supply to the caravan was connected when I took the battery out and is still connected now.


Thanks.

That may indicate the caravan 12v supply/charger has failed - causing the battery to discharge to 11.1v and being unable to power any 12v appliances - but as Jcloughie posted, the 230V mains items should still work if still plugged in to the house connection.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

It might help if we knew the make model and year of the caravan.

However most caravans since about 1990 do have a 12V power supply which provided it is receiving 230V mains will allow some 12V items like lights to be run even without battery connected.

A battery that is down to 11.1V, ist technically discharged, which means either the charger is faulty or its not receiving 230V mains, so check all the switch positions and the incoming 230V mains supply.

You can see if the mains is reaching the caravan by looking at the mains distribution panel, and all the Miniature Circuit Breakers (MCB) and the Residual Current Breaker (RCB) switches should be pointing up (ON). If you press the "Test Button" the RCD should instantly trip to OFF. If it doesn't, then there is no power reaching the caravan. - and you will need to check the Electric Hook Up (EHU) cable and plugs.

 

[Dustydog]

Steve, what make ,year and model caravan?

Older ones like mine need the 12 v battery fitted to function.
It is advisable to have a battery in the circuit. It acts as a reservoir or filter for the 12v system. Also a working charger will supply 13.7v normally some 12v items may not like the larger voltage.
Also the unconnected leads could short together if no battery fitted. If yours works perfectly with the battery fitted don’t worry. The 11.1 v on the caravans voltmeter is probably not accurate. Check the battery with a multimeter , stand alone and connected to the onboard charger , linked to the mains.

This crossed with Profs above

 

[Steve1962]

That may indicate the caravan 12v supply/charger has failed - causing the battery to discharge to 11.1v and being unable to power any 12v appliances - but as Jcloughie posted, the 230V mains items should still work if still plugged in to the house connection.

Ok thanks all for your advice.

The caravan is a 2017 Bailey Unicorn Valencia.

I am going to charge the battery back up and then reconnect it to see if that resolves the issue, and I have unplugged the mains supply from caravan to the house.

I also forgot to mention that the caravan has a full Protec cover on it which as a see through panel for the solar panel.

Perhaps in future I won't bother putting the heating on or plugging the caravan into the mains ( apart from a day or two before we go away in it).

Steve

 

[Mr Grumpy]

How old is the battery? Down to 11.1v normally signifies it's knackered.
You say you have a solar panel on the roof. What size is it?
It should comfortably maintain the battery in storage.
If you feel you have to charge via EHU during storage once or twice a month should be sufficient during storage.

 

[Steve1962]

That may indicate the caravan 12v supply/charger has failed - causing the battery to discharge to 11.1v and being unable to power any 12v appliances - but as Jcloughie posted, the 230V mains items should still work if still plugged in to the house connection.

Ok thanks all for your advice.

I am going to charge the battery, put it

 

[Steve1962]

Hi all,

First of all apologies for not giving a full description of the caravan in the first place ( that would have made it far easier to help), and just to say the solar panel is 100W.

It seems that many other people who store their caravans on their drive never put the heating on and only occasionally connect to the mains supply from the house.

Every day is a school day as they say, and for me I think that might need to include school holidays!!!

Can't thank you all enough for your thoughts and advice even though you didn't have all the facts, and this just underlines what a great place this forum is.

Steve

 

[otherclive]

Hi all,

First of all apologies for not giving a full description of the caravan in the first place ( that would have made it far easier to help), and just to say the solar panel is 100W.

It seems that many other people who store their caravans on their drive never put the heating on and only occasionally connect to the mains supply from the house.

Every day is a school day as they say, and for me I think that might need to include school holidays!!!

Can't thank you all enough for your thoughts and advice even though you didn't have all the facts, and this just underlines what a great place this forum is.

Steve

The only time I would put heating on is for a winter trip when I fetched the van from store and put it on the drive. I would check out all the sytems etc and put the heating in gas and electric. But it would never be on for very long though. I found once we had arrived on site the heating could go on whilst the other jobs of setting up and putting things in their “touring” spot. It generally warmed up quite quickly with the blown air system and the caravan became cosy.

Ps it would also be checked out for other trips as well.

 

[Beardy]

I'm gonna bet that everything is ok when you put the battery back on. I don't know how sofisticated the battery charge system is in your caravan but I can tell you for certain that some 'smart' chargers will not charge a battery if it is below a certain level, if they don't see a voltage at the terminals they don't send any voltage / current to them. My Mrs managed to completely flatten her battery, less than 10 v if I remember correctly. My smart charger wouldn't charge it. I had to revert to a 30 year old basic charger to give it a kick start for half an hour then switch to my smart charger.

 

[Woodentop]

Lots of ideas but non correct. Bailey caravans don't use a battery charger per se, they use a device called a switched mode power supply or SMPS. This device takes in 240V and gives out a constant 13.6V with a current capability of about 22A. This voltage charges the battery in a mode known as float charging - the internal resistance of the battery will limit the current taken, it will not be hit with 22A! The battery terminal voltage will never exceed that being pushed into it from the SMPS - 13.6V - which is only about 90% charged. If you check your domestic charger it will probably be putting nearer 14.4V into the battery which will take it up to 100%, the same as a car alternator does.

There is a fuse in the cables from the battery buried away somewhere in the cable loom. If that fuse had blown your battery would have gradually discharged but quite slowly. The SMPS is 'inside the caravan' relative to the battery so even if that fuse had blown the 13.6V out from the SMPS would have kept your 12V equipment working.

Ergo, and I'm sorry to tell you this, it looks as though your SMPS has failed - which is surprisingly common due to cooling fan failure or bunged up with dust. A replacement (it is likely a BCA PS276) which will knock you back well north of £100. You can also get it repaired by sending it to an outfit called Apuljack. (I know nothing of them other than they are often recommended on here.)

BUT, before you do that it is worth opening up the power box and checking that the mains (kettle-type) plug is still connected to the SMPS - they very often fall out if they have had a rough journey!! At this point remove the incoming mains to the caravan. There are two types of power box, the early one and the late one. The early power box is usually mounted on a vertical board under one of the front bunks towards the rear end of same, but you have already found that! It will have four screws in the corners of the recess in which the RCD and MCBs sit - remove the screws to get the front off. You may have to undo the mounting board as well. The SMPS is the metal box in the top of the power box and it has simple connectors. If you have a voltmeter you can test it on the bench.
If it is the more modern type it is in a vertical case screwed to the floor. You need to release it, tip it if necessary to get at two screws on the top which will allow a plastic (rear) cover to be slide upwards and removed and the SMPS slide out upwards. Connections are the same.

If you don't like electricity and you don't know anyone who does I would suggest for safety that you get an electrician to look at it. It does NOT need to be a caravan tech, any electrician should be able to do it.

 

[xtrailman]

Ok thanks all for your advice.

The caravan is a 2017 Bailey Unicorn Valencia.

I am going to charge the battery back up and then reconnect it to see if that resolves the issue, and I have unplugged the mains supply from caravan to the house.

I also forgot to mention that the caravan has a full Protec cover on it which as a see through panel for the solar panel.

Perhaps in future I won't bother putting the heating on or plugging the caravan into the mains ( apart from a day or two before we go away in it).

Steve

You should still get 12 volt with no battery with that model, sounds like your charger isn't working, assuming it's getting mains power.

 

[Anseo]

Lots of ideas but non correct. Bailey caravans don't use a battery charger per se, they use a device called a switched mode power supply or SMPS. This device takes in 240V and gives out a constant 13.6V with a current capability of about 22A. This voltage charges the battery in a mode known as float charging - the internal resistance of the battery will limit the current taken, it will not be hit with 22A! The battery terminal voltage will never exceed that being pushed into it from the SMPS - 13.6V - which is only about 90% charged. If you check your domestic charger it will probably be putting nearer 14.4V into the battery which will take it up to 100%, the same as a car alternator does.

There is a fuse in the cables from the battery buried away somewhere in the cable loom. If that fuse had blown your battery would have gradually discharged but quite slowly. The SMPS is 'inside the caravan' relative to the battery so even if that fuse had blown the 13.6V out from the SMPS would have kept your 12V equipment working.

Ergo, and I'm sorry to tell you this, it looks as though your SMPS has failed - which is surprisingly common due to cooling fan failure or bunged up with dust. A replacement (it is likely a BCA PS276) which will knock you back well north of £100. You can also get it repaired by sending it to an outfit called Apuljack. (I know nothing of them other than they are often recommended on here.)

BUT, before you do that it is worth opening up the power box and checking that the mains (kettle-type) plug is still connected to the SMPS - they very often fall out if they have had a rough journey!! At this point remove the incoming mains to the caravan. There are two types of power box, the early one and the late one. The early power box is usually mounted on a vertical board under one of the front bunks towards the rear end of same, but you have already found that! It will have four screws in the corners of the recess in which the RCD and MCBs sit - remove the screws to get the front off. You may have to undo the mounting board as well. The SMPS is the metal box in the top of the power box and it has simple connectors. If you have a voltmeter you can test it on the bench.
If it is the more modern type it is in a vertical case screwed to the floor. You need to release it, tip it if necessary to get at two screws on the top which will allow a plastic (rear) cover to be slide upwards and removed and the SMPS slide out upwards. Connections are the same.

If you don't like electricity and you don't know anyone who does I would suggest for safety that you get an electrician to look at it. It does NOT need to be a caravan tech, any electrician should be able to do it.

Excellent description and explanation of the SMPS device and function

 

[xtrailman]

Lots of ideas but non correct. Bailey caravans don't use a battery charger per se, they use a device called a switched mode power supply or SMPS. This device takes in 240V and gives out a constant 13.6V with a current capability of about 22A. This voltage charges the battery in a mode known as float charging - the internal resistance of the battery will limit the current taken, it will not be hit with 22A! The battery terminal voltage will never exceed that being pushed into it from the SMPS - 13.6V - which is only about 90% charged. If you check your domestic charger it will probably be putting nearer 14.4V into the battery which will take it up to 100%, the same as a car alternator does.

There is a fuse in the cables from the battery buried away somewhere in the cable loom. If that fuse had blown your battery would have gradually discharged but quite slowly. The SMPS is 'inside the caravan' relative to the battery so even if that fuse had blown the 13.6V out from the SMPS would have kept your 12V equipment working.

Ergo, and I'm sorry to tell you this, it looks as though your SMPS has failed - which is surprisingly common due to cooling fan failure or bunged up with dust. A replacement (it is likely a BCA PS276) which will knock you back well north of £100. You can also get it repaired by sending it to an outfit called Apuljack. (I know nothing of them other than they are often recommended on here.)

BUT, before you do that it is worth opening up the power box and checking that the mains (kettle-type) plug is still connected to the SMPS - they very often fall out if they have had a rough journey!! At this point remove the incoming mains to the caravan. There are two types of power box, the early one and the late one. The early power box is usually mounted on a vertical board under one of the front bunks towards the rear end of same, but you have already found that! It will have four screws in the corners of the recess in which the RCD and MCBs sit - remove the screws to get the front off. You may have to undo the mounting board as well. The SMPS is the metal box in the top of the power box and it has simple connectors. If you have a voltmeter you can test it on the bench.
If it is the more modern type it is in a vertical case screwed to the floor. You need to release it, tip it if necessary to get at two screws on the top which will allow a plastic (rear) cover to be slide upwards and removed and the SMPS slide out upwards. Connections are the same.

If you don't like electricity and you don't know anyone who does I would suggest for safety that you get an electrician to look at it. It does NOT need to be a caravan tech, any electrician should be able to do it.

The manual for the 2011 Valencia I owned clearly states you don't need a battery for the 12v supply.

 

[Steve1962]

The manual for the 2011 Valencia I owned clearly states you don't need a battery for the 12v supply.

Hi
It’s a 2017 model caravan.
I need to look into this further once the battery recharges and is put back in the caravan.

Thanks

 

[trevormonty]

In my 2000 bailey 12v supply is used to control gas HW and heater fan. I suspect modern caravans would use 12v to power the central control system, which selects between gas or 230v for heating and HW. Modern fridges also need 12v for the controller.

Whatever case should be able operate on 230v without house battery being present as there is 230 to 12V power supply.

 

[Stevejj]

Ok thanks all for your advice.

The caravan is a 2017 Bailey Unicorn Valencia.

I am going to charge the battery back up and then reconnect it to see if that resolves the issue, and I have unplugged the mains supply from caravan to the house.

I also forgot to mention that the caravan has a full Protec cover on it which as a see through panel for the solar panel.

Perhaps in future I won't bother putting the heating on or plugging the caravan into the mains ( apart from a day or two before we go away in it).

Steve

Hiya, with 230v mains power connected to your caravan this will supply all 3 pin sockets, battery charger, fridge and boiler, but the control panels ie- alde, truma, fridge, cooker ignition, lights, usb charging points, water pump etc etc, all these need the battery 12v supply so no battery no control panels so no boiler. When your on site the reason you have the charger on (unless off grid) is because all your 12v is being powered from the battery and the charger keeps the battery fully charged, hope this simplifies thing a little better. Steve

 

[Steve1962]

Hiya, with 230v mains power connected to your caravan this will supply all 3 pin sockets, battery charger, fridge and boiler, but the control panels ie- alde, truma, fridge, cooker ignition, lights, usb charging points, water pump etc etc, all these need the battery 12v supply so no battery no control panels so no boiler. When your on site the reason you have the charger on (unless off grid) is because all your 12v is being powered from the battery and the charger keeps the battery fully charged, hope this simplifies thing a little better. Steve

Thanks very much, that’s great information.

Battery currently charging on a CTEK MXS5.0 charger in the house.

Steve

 

[Stevejj]

Thanks very much, that’s great information.

Battery currently charging on a CTEK MXS5.0 charger in the house.

Steve

Hiya, yes I have two 110a Agm batteries one in my garage connected to a Ctek charger and one remains in the caravan all winter being charged by the onboard charger, I rotate roughly every 6mths, one other note I dont leave the batteries on charge all the time I tend to switch off the chargers for a day or two or even longer to rest them but keep a check each day on batt voltage with my tester, once voltage drops to around 12.6/7 (voltage drops quicker in winter) I switch chargers back on. Both my batteries are 6 going into 7 years old now and still work perfectly well when using the motor mover. Steve